Schumacher SC1360 Boiled Battery

[AmmoGuy]

Bought a new Schumacher SC1360 charger, and hooked it to a 3 day old Everstart Max Deep Cycle. 
 

Came back to check on it a few hours later and the charger read 95%, but the battery was boiling and hissing (not good!) Voltage immediately after disconnecting the charger was 13.6. Really, really hoping it didn’t damage my new battery. 
 

Guess the charger is garbage? Anyone had good or bad experience with this charger? 

[AmmoGuy]

Update. 

I just talked to someone at Schumacher that suggested charging the deep cycle battery on "AGM" or "Gel" setting.  Well, uh... It would probably be a good idea to mention that in the manual somewhere? 

 

Also, they said "try it on "AGM" setting for an hour or so and see if it boils the battery, if it does call us back".  Um, sorry. I don't think I'll use my brand new battery for your testing purposes. 

 

Now to figure out what charger I should swap it for. 

[MN Fisher]

For a deep-cycle battery, I don't use a charger that puts too much power into it...I prefer a trickle charger.

Here's the two I'd recommend.

Deltran Battery Tender Plus

or

NOCO Genius1

[TnRiver46]

I would guess Your battery and charger are still fine. I’ve heard some sounds before 

[AmmoGuy]

Well, the AGM setting doesn’t work either. After 15 min it was bubbling again. Says the battery is 99% and is charging at 15.1 volts. 
 

If I use the “GEL” setting, it says the battery is 97%, and seems to be charging at about 13.6 volts. 
 

The “technical assistance” at Schumacher barely exists, the woman I spoke to today seemed annoyed and Just kept alluding to the battery being bad. She also insisted the manual says to use the AGM setting for deep cycles (it doesn’t). 
 

Unless someone chimes in that the bubbling is OK and normal (I’ve never heard it with other batteries and charges in the past) I’ll  return it and never buy another Schumacher product again. 

[TnRiver46]

11 hours ago, AmmoGuy said:

Well, the AGM setting doesn’t work either. After 15 min it was bubbling again. Says the battery is 99% and is charging at 15.1 volts. 
 

If I use the “GEL” setting, it says the battery is 97%, and seems to be charging at about 13.6 volts. 
 

The “technical assistance” at Schumacher barely exists, the woman I spoke to today seemed annoyed and Just kept alluding to the battery being bad. She also insisted the manual says to use the AGM setting for deep cycles (it doesn’t). 
 

Unless someone chimes in that the bubbling is OK and normal (I’ve never heard it with other batteries and charges in the past) I’ll  return it and never buy another Schumacher product again. 

I’ve heArd the bubbling and Schumacher has been the leader in battery chargers for about 50+ years in America. But you do whatever you want 

[BayouSlide]

As a longtime owner of Schumacher chargers, it is dangerous not to monitor the charging. They have a high output and rely on their circuit board to monitor level of charge. If the circuit faults, which I have seen on numerous occasions, it will read a fully charged battery at only 70 percent or so, and continue to pump in voltage. Therein lies the problem. You can correct the fault by unplugging the charger and then plugging it back it: when you do so, it will normally show 100 percent charge and cut the output.

 

By not following my own advice — I was preoccupied with finding a replacement online for a baitcaster that went overboard that day — I went out late one night to check the progress on charging the motor Optima in my G3 only to find three feet of flames rising from the motor compartment. I was lucky to discover and put out the fire before it finished melting my fuel tank or the boat, and my travel trailer next to it, might have been a total loss. As it was it took many hours of my work and then a pro mechanic to repair all the damage to the tune of over $4,000 dollars.

 

Now I have a low output (3 bank, 5 amp for each bank) charger installed in the boat but I still can't bear to leave it unattended while charging.

[Way2slow]

You need to understand, the words "Brand New" does not guarantee to be a good battery.  That's why a new battery comes with a warrantee.   Depending on where you buy a battery, they can be many months old from sitting on the shelf.  And don't trust the stickers on them, that's just the date that battery was placed in the store.  I've known a few that will pick them up after several months and put them in another store with a new sticker on them.  The actual manufacturing date is coded on the battery and is as protected as to what a dealer actually pays for the car he sells you.

As for charging a deep cycle, all manufactures recommend to charge at 10% the rated capacity.  If it's a 120 amp hour battery, charge it at 12 amps.  For the first 80% of the charge, you can charge them at 20 to 30 amps, but doing that it's recommended you use a charger with a temp sensor to prevent what you have experienced.  It's very important to charge flooded cell batteries at the recommended rate.  If charged too slow, they don't gas, and that lets them stratify, which is the acid and water separating and the acid getting concentrated in the lower half of the battery. 

Smart chargers do just that, they charge at their max capacity until the battery reaches approximately 80% charge, and then they cut back the charge rate.  Now, there is always the possibility the charger may have lost some of it's "smarts" but I'm more inclined to believe the battery is bad and has a shorted cell in it.  Usually it takes several hours for a battery to get hot enough to go into thermal runaway like you are referring to, unless it's bad, then it can get hot very quickly. 

Most good onboard charges have an optional thermal probe that can and should be connected to the battery.  That keeps the plates from getting too hot, the charger automatically cuts the charge rate when they start getting warm.  Which I've seen very few people ever use.

As a battery gets warm, the internal resistance gets less, causing increased heat, and this keeps on adding up.  That's why everything thing you read tells you not to charge a warm battery, let it cool before connecting a charger to it.

 

The biggest problem you are going to run into is finding someone with enough smarts to realize this.  Most just stick their Midtronics tester on it and say, oh it's good.  

 

Also understand, each type of battery has it's own charging conditions, so trying to charge one type of battery with an automatic smart charger set for another type could lead to overcharging and damaging a battery.  

 

I guess this was a long winded way of saying you probably have a bad battery.

[AmmoGuy]

17 minutes ago, Way2slow said:

 

The biggest problem you are going to run into is finding someone with enough smarts to realize this.  Most just stick their Midtronics tester on it and say, oh it's good.   

 

You are correct. Where I live, I 100% will not find anyone that knows enough, or will care enough to put any thought into whether or not the battery has a bad cell.  Like you said, they'll slap the tester on it and it's going to say good (already had it tested). My options are literally pony up for a new battery which makes no sense at this point. 

 

It's a "new" battery, I've already confirmed that too. 

 

So the question is, is a light bubbling noise in the battery OK, or does this definitely indicate an issue? On the "AGM" setting the bubbling was not as loud or noticeable, but still present. 

 

I'll add, I did finally decide to let the charger go to 100% on the AGM setting. It did pop over to float the battery at 13.1v. 

[Way2slow]

Is this an AGM or a Flooded cell battery.  There are two types of flooded cell, those with the caps and those they call "Maintenance Free" without caps, these are not AGM's, just flooded cell batteries with smaller plates so they can hold more electrolyte from the factory.  After the warranty runs out, it pays to peel the label off, pop the plugs out and add water to them. 

Both of these type flooded cell batteries will bubble, that is required for them to properly charge.

 

Now, the Adsorbed Glass Matt (AGM) battery does not has any free electrolyte in it, it's has a synthetic material between the plates that is soaked in electrolyte and normally you should not hear bubbling in it.  I guess I should say I've never noticed it in one.

 

Flooded cell batteries can handle a bad charge much better than AGMs.  

I have seen new batteries that sat on the shelf for long periods without a booster charge stratify.  The first time they are charged they will over heat because of this.  What I've done is charge them at a slower rate and if you are not using a temp sensor, when the battery starts getting warm, stop the charge, let it cool and then start charging it again.  Basically, nursing it back to where the charger will charge it properly once you get that first initial charge in them.

If the battery is getting warm quickly when being charged at 10 - 15 amps, the battery most likely has a bad cell.   That's when you take it back and make the seller connect it to a 10 - 15 amp charge and see if it does the same thing and when it does, tell him you are ready for that new replacement. 

 

I ready where you said it did pop over to the float mode.  Normally, it can take several hours for a battery to bleed off enough of the surface charge to get a proper float level voltage.  

For a true flooded cell deep cycle battery, the ideal float voltage is usually 13.15, to 13.2 VDC. (13.17 is considered ideal)

AGM's are usually 13.4 

The cutoff voltage is different for the two also.  It's been a few years but I think AGM's are about 14.2 and flooded cell are 14.4.  They each have different levels they charge at during their charge cycle, that's why a good smart charger is recommended.  

Most batteries also require a 15% over charge to balance the cells, again the reason for a smart charger, the hot box chargers can't do that.

 

 

[Dwight Hottle]

10 minutes ago, AmmoGuy said:

 

You are correct. Where I live, I 100% will not find anyone that knows enough, or will care enough to put any thought into whether or not the battery has a bad cell.  Like you said, they'll slap the tester on it and it's going to say good (already had it tested). My options are literally pony up for a new battery which makes no sense at this point. 

 

It's a "new" battery, I've already confirmed that too. 

 

So the question is, is a light bubbling noise in the battery OK, or does this definitely indicate an issue? On the "AGM" setting the bubbling was not as loud or noticeable, but still present. 

 

I'll add, I did finally decide to let the charger go to 100% on the AGM setting. It did pop over to float the battery at 13.1v. 

 

I can tell you from years of experience that wet cell batteries do bubble when charging. That is normal & the reason they require ventilation when being charged. The only exceptions are sealed batteries which allow for the sulfating to slow escape as part of their design. The danger point with a bad battery is when the battery case cannot release the build up of pressure & the case starts to swell or pulse. That's what happens before it blows up or explodes. 

[AmmoGuy]

16 minutes ago, Way2slow said:

Is this an AGM or a Flooded cell battery.  There are two types of flooded cell, those with the caps and those they call "Maintenance Free" without caps, these are not AGM's, just flooded cell batteries with smaller plates so they can hold more electrolyte from the factory.  After the warranty runs out, it pays to peel the label off, pop the plugs out and add water to them. 

Both of these type flooded cell batteries will bubble, that is required for them to properly charge.

 

Now, the Adsorbed Glass Matt (AGM) battery does not has any free electrolyte in it, it's has a synthetic material between the plates that is soaked in electrolyte and normally you should not hear bubbling in it.  I guess I should say I've never noticed it in one.

 

Flooded cell batteries can handle a bad charge much better than AGMs.  

I have seen new batteries that sat on the shelf for long periods without a booster charge stratify.  The first time they are charged they will over heat because of this.  What I've done is charge them at a slower rate and if you are not using a temp sensor, when the battery starts getting warm, stop the charge, let it cool and then start charging it again.  Basically, nursing it back to where the charger will charge it properly once you get that first initial charge in them.

If the battery is getting warm quickly when being charged at 10 - 15 amps, the battery most likely has a bad cell.   That's when you take it back and make the seller connect it to a 10 - 15 amp charge and see if it does the same thing and when it does, tell him you are ready for that new replacement. 

 

 

 

It is not an AGM. 

[Way2slow]

Ok, that's actually good. Less chance of it having been destroyed on it's first charge.

 

What you may be experiencing is where I mentioned they can Stratify from going to long without a booster charge.  

 

Do like I mentioned, baby sit it for the first couple of charges, not letting it get too warm until it cuts off and goes into the float mode.  

I would not use the AGM setting until I got some voltage readings.  You really don't want a float voltage above 13.2VDC.  AGM may give you more than that.  Check that after it has been in float mode for 24 hours.  Plus, as I mentioned AGM and flooded cell batteries have different peak levels of charge, but since your charger is not one of the three hundred dollar chargers designed to give the absolute max life, that may not matter. 

[slonezp]

Maybe it's the charger, maybe it's the battery, maybe it's both. Return them both and start fresh.

Wish I could help otherwise. I went to high school with NHRA great Tony Schumacher and hung out in in his fathers garage 40 years ago when his father was just a battery charger guy. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't remember me.  

[TnRiver46]

Sounds to me like a good battery and a good charger and mild paranoia 

[Team9nine]

18 hours ago, Dwight Hottle said:

 

I can tell you from years of experience that wet cell batteries do bubble when charging. That is normal & the reason they require ventilation when being charged. The only exceptions are sealed batteries which allow for the sulfating to slow escape as part of their design. The danger point with a bad battery is when the battery case cannot release the build up of pressure & the case starts to swell or pulse. That's what happens before it blows up or explodes. 

 

THIS ^^

 

Running a Schumacher SC1279 on my batteries since last year without any issues. If uncapped, you will see bubbling and hear "fizzing" for lack of a more scientific term - lol. Perfectly normal in my experience. You'll know real quick if anything was actually "fried" the next time you take the boat out and run off the battery(s). If you ruined something, you won't go far, but would guess you are just fine and have nothing to worry about.