FG Knot Lubrication

[garroyo130]

At what point is everyone lubricating this knot? 

 

Today I tied a couple of leaders and forgot to lubricate one of them before tightening down. I quickly realized it really bit into the copolymer and tightened nicely. It got me to thinking about lubrication with this knot and what time, if at all, is best. I know that the purpose of lubrication is to help prevent line burn but with a knot like the FG where would the failure point be if tied dry?

 

I tested the one I tied completely dry and found no difference in perceived break strength (not actually measured) and it joined 20lb braid to 40lb YZH (shock leader).

[waymont]

I never wet my FG knots.

[softwateronly]

I go with never, and use this method now...

 

 

 

scott

[Team9nine]

Never wetted one here, either....

[MN Fisher]

I don't lube an FG either.

9 minutes ago, softwateronly said:

I go with never, and use this method now...

Ya, after finding this vid, I gave up my old method...which was the 'no tension'...I don't trust my teeth enough for the 'bite it' method.

[garroyo130]

13 hours ago, softwateronly said:

I go with never, and use this method now...

 

 

 

scott

 

I use that method to hold the line but do 20 wraps and finish with rizzuto

 

Although I am intrigued by this method ... the spacing this guy gets makes me wonder if it would hold better 

 

 

[softwateronly]

59 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

 

I use that method to hold the line but do 20 wraps and finish with rizzuto

 

Although I am intrigued by this method ... the spacing this guy gets makes me wonder if it would hold better 

 

 

That's a stellar tip and I also use the rizutto finish, seems to help the knot last longer than the leader with the guide abrasion.

[ATA]

Same here, Never wet the FG knot, and I think thats the point of it, because it will allow the braid get into the flouro.

[Happybeerbuzz]

I wet it.  I do not know if it is necessary/recommended/better, but I always have.  My thought process is that I do not want the leader compromised in any way.  The strength of the knot is that it distributes the stress across the length of the wraps by constricting on the leader, not cutting into it.  Like any other knot, I feel like I am avoiding any unnecessary abrasion/friction.

 

Besides, I am going to throw said knot into a lake.  It better be able to with stand a bit of spittle.  

[RDB]

3 hours ago, Happybeerbuzz said:

I wet it.  I do not know if it is necessary/recommended/better, but I always have.  My thought process is that I do not want the leader compromised in any way.  The strength of the knot is that it distributes the stress across the length of the wraps by constricting on the leader, not cutting into it.  Like any other knot, I feel like I am avoiding any unnecessary abrasion/friction.

 

Besides, I am going to throw said knot into a lake.  It better be able to with stand a bit of spittle.  

I think the argument is you can get a liars knot (a twist sliding over itself) if you wet.  I wet the knot sometimes (out of habit) and I haven’t had a problem.

[Happybeerbuzz]

1 hour ago, RDB said:

I think the argument is you can get a liars knot (a twist sliding over itself) if you wet.  I wet the knot sometimes (out of habit) and I haven’t had a problem.

I do not know how that can happen.  There is zero play in the knot prior to cinching down.  

[RDB]

19 hours ago, Happybeerbuzz said:

I do not know how that can happen.  There is zero play in the knot prior to cinching down.  

I don’t know what to tell you.  You asked so I was just sharing what the argument is for not wetting knots.  If the question was rhetorical, my bad.  I’m not trying to convince you one way or the other.

[galyonj]

On 3/27/2021 at 9:49 PM, softwateronly said:

I go with never, and use this method now...

 

 

 

scott

 

I don't have any dog in the wet/not wet fight, but I want to say that this video made me not annoyed with trying to tie this knot, so thanks for that.

 

 

Mine's pretty ugly, but it's getting there.

[RDB]

3 hours ago, galyonj said:

 

I don't have any dog in the wet/not wet fight, but I want to say that this video made me not annoyed with trying to tie this knot, so thanks for that.

 

 

Mine's pretty ugly, but it's getting there.

Funny you say that...when I first started tying an FG, I almost gave up after about 10 tries.  To me, the most difficult thing is figuring out the best way to manage the lines.  I started off with the braid in my teeth and almost went cross eyed.

[clemsondds]

In this video, he talks about tightening down is the most important step.  Is he only pulling the main line fluoro and main line braid?  It seems when I do this, most of the time the fluoro slides right through instead of biting down. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

[MN Fisher]

Just now, clemsondds said:

In this video, he talks about tightening down is the most important step.  Is he only pulling the main line fluoro and main line braid?  It seems when I do this, most of the time the fluoro slides right through instead of biting down. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Not keeping the braid tight enough? While looping the braid over the FC, the tightness starts the 'bite in'.

[Happybeerbuzz]

47 minutes ago, clemsondds said:

In this video, he talks about tightening down is the most important step.  Is he only pulling the main line fluoro and main line braid?  It seems when I do this, most of the time the fluoro slides right through instead of biting down. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

Another possibility is that the leader is too thin.  I try not to join braid to leader that is thinner.  As a general rule, it is easier to tie the FG knot when the braid is thinner than the leader. 
 

The type of braid makes a difference as well. I had the hardest time consistently joining 6# Red Label to 10# Kastpro but have no problems with Power Pro.  
 

In both cases the leader will often just pull out of the wraps. 

[mcipinkie]

I would suggest using copious amounts of Yellow Rocket Fuel.

 

If you are going to spend the time to tie this monstrosity, might as well lubricate with the best.

 

Spit works on an Alberto Knot.

 

 

[galyonj]

8 hours ago, clemsondds said:

In this video, he talks about tightening down is the most important step.  Is he only pulling the main line fluoro and main line braid?  It seems when I do this, most of the time the fluoro slides right through instead of biting down. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

 

8 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

Not keeping the braid tight enough? While looping the braid over the FC, the tightness starts the 'bite in'.

 

Based on my incredibly limited experience, I think you're right, MN. When I tied the one I posted here yesterday, I took a long time -- feeling it out, going a few wraps and then unwrapping it and doing it again, building muscle memory and all that good stuff. What y'all see is the one I was proud enough of to photograph.

 

My experience is that you can't recover a decent knot from one that starts out loose and floppy. If you want it tight when you're done, you gotta start it tight and keep it that way throughout the process. When I did the last tightening step, all I did was grab the main line in one hand, the leader in the other, and try to pull them apart.

 

I didn't spit on it until I did the finishing half-hitches. And that probably was more force of habit than it was truly necessary.

 

14 hours ago, RDB said:

Funny you say that...when I first started tying an FG, I almost gave up after about 10 tries.  To me, the most difficult thing is figuring out the best way to manage the lines.  I started off with the braid in my teeth and almost went cross eyed.

 

Exactly.

 

FWIW here's how Swindle does it. Instead of looping around his pinky finger, he does a slip knot around the reel handle to keep it tight and keep his hands free.

[garroyo130]

11 hours ago, clemsondds said:

In this video, he talks about tightening down is the most important step.  Is he only pulling the main line fluoro and main line braid?  It seems when I do this, most of the time the fluoro slides right through instead of biting down. Any idea what I'm doing wrong?

 

Are you leaving a long enough tag end of flouro? The braid will slide some. For security i try to leave about 4-5" of flouro sticking out past the knot. 

[MN Fisher]

9 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

 

Are you leaving a long enough tag end of flouro? The braid will slide some. For security i try to leave about 4-5" of flouro sticking out past the knot. 

I do about 3" - but ya...make sure there's some space for 'slippage' before the braid clamps tight on the FC.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The FG is more of a weave rather than a knot, so wetting probably won’t do much.  It’s overkill imo. Way more complicated and time consuming than the benefits bare 

[FryDog62]

3 hours ago, galyonj said:

FWIW here's how Swindle does it. Instead of looping around his pinky finger, he does a slip knot around the reel handle to keep it tight and keep his hands free.

He does a good job, the two things I would do different than him are:

 

1) I tie the braid from the rod to my belt loop instead of the reel knob. Reason is sometimes when you cut the braid off when you’re done it gets caught in the “joint” between the knob and handle. If you snip at the belt loop it just falls off. 
 

2) The reason the FG knot fails is because people don’t keep the weave tight. If you google John Crews and FG Knot, he is very specific about the 4th or 5th weave that you pull it so that the line does a small “snap” and locks the initial part of the knot into place. This is key, and all the weaves after that fall into place and it won’t slip out later. 

[galyonj]

15 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

The FG is more of a weave rather than a knot, so wetting probably won’t do much.  It’s overkill imo. Way more complicated and time consuming than the benefits bare 

 

Right on. I'm not at all concerned about the holding strength of the GT knot I usually use, but it worries me to hear my leader knot slapping through the guides when I cast. Even though I use a leader knot as a designed failure point, it's not like I want to hasten that failure, you know? If the FG has more clearance (and, thus, a gentler journey) through the guides, I think it's worth me investigating.

 

1 minute ago, FryDog62 said:

He does a good job, the two things I would do different than him are:

 

1) I tie the braid from the rod to my belt loop instead of the reel knob. Reason is sometimes when you cut the braid off when you’re done it gets caught in the “joint” between the knob and handle. If you snip at the belt loop it just falls off. 
 

2) The reason the FG knot fails is because people don’t keep the weave tight. If you google John Crews and FG Knot, he is very specific about the 4th or 5th weave that you pull it so that the line does a small “snap” and locks the initial part of the knot into place. This is key, and all the weaves after that fall into place and it won’t slip out later. 

 

Makes sense. Thanks for the advice.

[RDB]

58 minutes ago, FryDog62 said:

I tie the braid from the rod to my belt loop instead of the reel knob.

I fish a lot in flip flops and I would wrap the braid around my big toe ? but now I use my pinky finger.

 

The knot is easy once you get the dexterity part down.  One thing you might consider that helped me when learning was to use larger test fluoro/mono to practice (smaller tests are less cooperative).  I practiced with 15 fluoro and 30 braid.  Once you get the dexterity part down, the transition to smaller lines was seamless.  Today I am surprised that I struggled but it’s just because the movements now feel natural.