Confused about the various rod manufacturers' rod power ratings and how they correspond to one another, and also looking for a recommendation/try to decide on a medium heavy fast casting rod.

[Bluegrass Fisherman]

Hey guys, first time poster here. So, I am trying to find a general purpose casting rod (if that exists) to go with a 7:1 Metanium MGL B, and I have it narrowed down to a medium heavy power rod with a fast action. My confusion begins with how each manufacturer rates the power of their various rods, and how each manufacturers' power rating for their rods correspond with one another. I know that there is no industry standard when it comes to rating rod power, and it shows when trying to find a rod that fishes "true" to its rating. From what I have read and understand (and please at any point feel free to correct me if I am wrong), a Dobyns will sometimes fish a bit lighter than what it is rated, and a St. Croix will sometimes do the opposite and fish a bit heavier (or stiffer?) than what it is rated.  These two examples are just that, examples, and those two stereotypes don't always hold true to every series of fishing rod that a manufacturer will produce.

 

My only experience with any fishing rod at all is a 7'0" medium power fast action St. Croix Mojo Bass casting rod. I don't really have any real world experience with comparing how accurate each manufacturers' rod power rating is, or rather how they correspond to each other. It gets really confusing when I see that in St. Croix's lineup, some rods hold true to that "fish a power rating higher than what its rated" stereotype, while other rods don't. From what I have read, my 7'0" St. Croix Mojo Bass apparently fishes closer to a medium heavy rather than a true medium. Looking at what people have said about their other rods, a Legend Elite fishes much closer to it's power rating than I think an Avid possibly or a Mojo Bass rod. I am assuming that might not hold true to the spinning counterparts of these casting rods, and those people might be talking about the spinning rods rather than the casting rods. I have read that some people recommend going by recommended lure weight rather than power rating, but that raises some confusion as well, because I have seen on a few rod lineups a medium heavy and a heavy have the same or very similar recommended lure weight. Throw in the recommended lure weight changing with the length of the rod sometimes and it just makes it more confusing, at least to me.

 

So, I guess the big question is, for a 7'0" rod, what recommended lure weight and line weight constitutes a true medium heavy? Are there any other characteristics that go into determining the difference between a medium heavy and either a heavy or medium? If so, what would a "true" medium heavy be with regards to those characteristics? 

 

For my second question, I am trying to choose between either a St. Croix Legend Elite 7'0" Medium Fast or a St. Croix Legend Elite 7'0" Medium Heavy Fast. The Dobyns Champion XP and Champion Extreme HP lineup looks interesting as well, but I don't know if a medium heavy or heavy would be better for a general purpose rod if I went with a Dobyns instead of a St. Croix. I am leaning towards the St. Croix though because I am trying to buy an American made fishing rod, and from what I understand, Dobyns rods (or the blanks at least) I think are made in either China or South Korea if I read correctly. I am really wanting a general purpose casting rod, but one thing I am wanting to do in particular is get into jig fishing, and throw 1/4 Oz to 3/8 Oz swim/football/casting jigs, I don't know if that would or should have any effect on my choice or not. I am mostly fishing from the shore, but I do sometimes fish on a boat. I'm trying to stay under $450. Any advice or recommendations would be very welcome.

[new2BC4bass]

For me a MH is rated 1/4-3/4 oz. or 1/4-1 oz.  I know what you mean about some makers using a different rating and the rod still being a MH.  A MH of mine is rated 1/8-5/8 oz.   A Medium power for me.  But 2 iRods are rated 3/16-3/8 oz.  A ML for me.  I got in touch with the company and they said it was a true MH and would handle heavier weights.

 

Can't help with your rod choices.  Out of my price range.

 

BTW, to the forum.  Two suggestions.  A shorter title and more paragraphs to make it easier for these old eyes to follow.  I personally like the longer post. 

[MickD]

You can chase this topic around forever and get lots of conflicting opinions, but what matters the most (with respect to power)  is getting a rod which casts properly, and the best indication of what to buy comes in the lure weight recommendations.  Stay within that, then move from it based on the technique/environment.  For example, if you are going to be hoisting bass out of heavy weeds with a big gob of weeds attached, go heavier.  If open water, stick with the lure weight recommendation.  

[Bluegrass Fisherman]

Hey thanks so much for the advice! I really appreciate it, I will try to keep the title shorter and use more paragraphs.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Don’t make yourself crazy comparing labels. There’s no industry standards so they will not correspond but will correlate. I’m being cute using double speak, the point is there is no direct comparison but they do use similar terms even though with different characteristics. Start by identifying the weight you want to cast, total of lead, skirts, trailers etc. the sweet spot on a rid is usually near the middle of the posted range. Next, once you find a couple that will work, consider cover. Thicker cover, lean towards the more powerful choices. These might have a higher top casting weight or just a beefier mid and butt section. There is no “true “ medium heavy etc. don’t even look at it that way. Just use those terms to guide you within a model series and you’ll find what works for you regardless of what the label says. 

[Boomstick]

Every manufacturer is a little different. As a general rule of thumb, I look at the line rating and weight rating more than I do the power rating. I would consider 10-17lb line and 1/4 to 3/4oz fairly standard for a MH rod and 10-20lb and 1/4 to 1oz is kind of a MH+ (or a Dobyns Heavy). I would prefer the former for soft plastics and things like 3/8oz spinnerbaits the latter for jigs, 1/2oz spinnerbaits or chatterbaits with trailers for what it's worth.

 

Then there's the action of the rod. For the most part a line of rods will run on the fast or slow side, so that a fast rod might be what we consider mod. fast, and a mod. fast is more moderate. 

 

For a Dobyns, you will likely want the 704C. The 703C is rated for up to 3/4oz, but most manufacturers would probably list that as a 5/8oz max and it runs a little lighter than it's ratings. The 703C is real good with light jigs with a lighter hook and a 5' senko with a weight of no more than 1/8oz if there's not a lot of cover, but the 704C is essentially a solid MH that runs on the stiffer side and I would use that for a 3/8oz jig or up to 1/2oz. For St Croix, you will probably want a Medium Heavy. I'm not too familiar with the Legend line, but the Mojo Bass 7'1" MH/F is pretty stout for a MH and a very good rod for 1/2oz jigs as long as there is not a lot of cover.

[Dens228]

The variance between manufacturers is exactly why I stick with one for my purchases.  I know exactly how it will feel when I use it.  

[huZZah]

Rod material also greatly affects it. Ugly stiks are glass/graphite and it’s definitely a heavier feeling rod than “medium” that’s listed on it. It bends like a medium action but is much stiffer like a MH it heavy rod.  So there’s that. 
 

I stand in the store and pretend to do my cast and work my bait such before I buy a rod just cause there’s no standard.  But I learned what I don’t like by trial and error. 

[Boomstick]

24 minutes ago, Dens228 said:

The variance between manufacturers is exactly why I stick with one for my purchases.  I know exactly how it will feel when I use it.  

I'm familiar with a few brands myself mainly from buying one kid Dobyns, the other St Croix and myself Daiwa but it's generally a safe bet to stick to one brand for this exact reason. I mean if your Med. heavy runs heavy and the medium runs heavy and you get a medium light, you have your bases covered.

[The Maestro]

A 7'2" MH Expride fits my definition of how a MH Fast rod should feel.

[WRB]

Everything being discussed is subjective to each angler.

The OP wants a jig & worm rod to cast and retrieve 1/4-3/8 oz jigs with a price point less then $450.

Medium Heavy fast or xfast 4 or 5 power opens up most quality bass rod casting rods rated 1/4- 1 oz Jig & worm rods.

The OP further narrows the choice down to 7’ St Croix and Dobyns higher end rods.

The faster the tip action the better the strike detection is and poorer the casting ability becomes so trade offs.

Tom

 

[ATA]

Never look at the label, even in same manufacturer you’ll find them different feel. For example M in gloom is conquest feels like MH gloomiest NRX, And that’s because of spiral X wraps that conquest have additionally.

my experience St.Croix and ABUs are higher than what they label for, for example Abu varitas lable H, feels like XH Of other manufacturers.

highly recommended to go to store and carry the rod and see the feel before buy it, or buy online with option of return.

And my personal experience, always look at the weight of your rod and try to get lightest rod as possible. 

If you fish a lot like me it will effect your life, right now I have tennis elbow and I realize that when it’s too late. Don’t make the same mistake.

[00bullitt]

Its certain that there is no standard! Every. Single. Time. that I buy rods sight unseen online....I am disappointed. I have a corner full of rods that I have bought that I don't use as a result. I am VERY picky about my actions for given techniques.

I NEVER buy off the label, and only for the feel. I recommend never buying a rod based on a stated technique either; unless the action IS IN FACT what you want. I have resorted to only buying rods I can put my hands on first. AND I carry a reel with me and a lead weight equivalent to the bait I will throw. 

I will usually have my wife stand on the weight as I load the rod. Then I will feel the tip with the weight hanging with about 12-18" of slack.

 

I just bought another Megabass Levante yesterday.....Diablo Spec-R. Stated action versus feel were way off. Had I went off their "listed" action, I would have ended up with their Perfect Pitch. 

 

The high modulus japanese graphite is a different animal in my opinion. 

 

I do like the idea of Megabass' "F" power number rating though.....at least now that I better understand it and spent 2 hours yesterday feeling each rod with a reel and 1/2 ounce weight.

 

[Deephaven]

I use either a SC LE MHF or Loomis GLX 844 for what you are looking at.  IMO the SC is easier to cast lighter lures a bit, but has nearly the backbone of the 844.  If lures are heavier then the 844 is more composed during the cast.  Both sticks are killer and are must owns in the arsenal.  I've never cast a Dobyn's so I can't compare.

 

 

[WRB]

On 3/21/2021 at 6:24 AM, Deephaven said:

I use either a SC LE MHF or Loomis GLX 844 for what you are looking at.  IMO the SC is easier to cast lighter lures a bit, but has nearly the backbone of the 844.  If lures are heavier then the 844 is more composed during the cast.  Both sticks are killer and are must owns in the arsenal.  I've never cast a Dobyn's so I can't compare.

 

 

Don’t believe GLX 844C JWR is made anymore 845C JWR is the current model.

top of the budget, good choice.

Tom

[MickD]

9 hours ago, 00bullitt said:

The high modulus japanese graphite is a different animal in my opinion. 

You talking about power or action?  One can match any Japanese graphite power with wood, but not the action.  The question is about power.  Not action.

[haggard]

If St.C is where you have experience and if you're comfortable with the brand, I'd use your existing experience as a reference point and go from there, within the same brand.

 

From there, I'd consider what "general" means in a "general purpose baitcaster." Does it mean a rod that will handle most any species in any region using any technique, or is it bounded by the species, conditions and presentations you're most likely to try in the areas you're most likely to fish.

 

Within the St.C lineup I'd say a Premiere or Avid series 6'6 to 7'0 in M/F is a great general purpose baitcaster for smallmouth and largemouth when fishing open water without lots of structure and cover with a variety of lures, and the same in MH/F if your typical waters find you fishing more weeds, pads or slop, of if you're targeting hogs.

 

Just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions

 

[Fishes in trees]

This is why I can't buy rods over the internet, unless I'm replacing one, or getting another one like I've already got.  I feel the need to handle and touch the different rods, just to try and figure out  where it will fit in the scheme of things within the rod collection.

I've never spend more than $200 for a rod, that being said, should my fiscal situation change for the much better, I'd have an arsenal of ultra high end Loomis, Megabass, St Croix, etc.

Being vigilant, I check bargain bins quite a bit and I've found some treasures there.  I won't drive by a pawn shop without sticking my face in and seeing what kind of tackle is available.

 

My most recent "find" was when the local Dick's store in Liberty decided to get out of the tackle business for ever and ever.  There was a 7' MH Field & Stream rod with a $10 sticker on it.  Liked the action and how light the rod was, but didn't like the handle..   For $10 I thought I could get to like the handle so I got it.   At least maybe I had a back up rod, something to trade.

 

One day sitting in the shop, it occurred to me that I could "fix " it, so I cut 6" or so off the handle, now that rod is my current favorite wacky senko rod.  Action wise, I haven't found any rod that is similar.   Cutting off 6" of the handle turned it from a clunker into a sweet handling rod that packs well in my Ford Explorer.  It just "skips good" and with this rig I'm just confident that I can skip a bait pretty much where ever I want to.

[00bullitt]

19 hours ago, MickD said:

You talking about power or action?  One can match any Japanese graphite power with wood, but not the action.  The question is about power.  Not action.

Yes, Im mostly talking power if I understand your question. Their actions are even somewhat questionable. Megabass' "Regular" action is more like most others that would be "Fast".

My Shimano Zodias and Poison Adrenas are the same way and I suspect the G. Loomis Conquest is under rated by most U.S. rod companies.

 

[MickD]

I've never heard of a "Regular" action.  Must be a term that only applies to that brand.  Which is indicative of the problem.

[MN Fisher]

1 minute ago, MickD said:

I've never heard of a "Regular" action.  Must be a term that only applies to that brand.  Which is indicative of the problem.

Diawa uses 'Regular' in their action too.

[CrankFate]

On 3/20/2021 at 6:51 PM, MickD said:

You can chase this topic around forever and get lots of conflicting opinions, but what matters the most (with respect to power)  is getting a rod which casts properly, and the best indication of what to buy comes in the lure weight recommendations.  Stay within that, then move from it based on the technique/environment.  For example, if you are going to be hoisting bass out of heavy weeds with a big gob of weeds attached, go heavier.  If open water, stick with the lure weight recommendation.  

that’s it.

[MickD]

11 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

Diawa uses 'Regular' in their action too.

I prefer the irregular action.  :-)

[00bullitt]

I think I found the following on The Hooked Up Tackle website. I assume that their "Regular" compares to others "Moderate" actions.

I wish Shimano had something more comprehensive for the Zodias and Poison Adrena line.

Best would be an industry standard.....wishful thinking, eh?