4 stroke vs. 2 stroke

[vulture1]

I am looking to buy a new/used boat within the next 6 months and am seriously considering going with a 4 stroke motor. Is it true that the gasoline (ethanol) issues are non existant in the 4 stroke.

What are the pros and cons?

[bass or bass ?]

Ethanol is definately a problem for all power boaters. It doesn't matter what type of motor you run, ethanol still attracts water in the fuel system and tank. Use a good quality fuel stabilizer. I have used both Sta-Bil marine and Star-Tron with good results.

Two cycle motors require far less maintanence the four cycles, are lighter, and in my opinion deliver more power per horsepower than four cycles.

Just my thoughts. Happy motoring.

[S Hovanec]

My Honda owner's manual says that the maximum allowable ethanol mix is 10%.  I think that's pretty standard on any current outboard.

[EastMarkME]

Im pretty sure the debate specificly about lowest maintaince/highest reliablity goes to four stroke in most arenas.

They are a tad heavier so pure performance out of the hole alone may still tip toward two stroke...but thats minimal in my mind.

Unless your a serious tourney guy whos racing to a hole on huge bodies of water...its four strokes in outboards (and snowmobiles and dirt bikes)for me. Im not even sure most of those guys arent into four stroke now ?

Mark

[Ann-Marie]

Except for the environmental aspect, give me a 2 stroke any day.  Worst mistake I ever made was replacing my 1985 Mercury with a new Honda 4 stroke.  I used the 2 stroke on our dinghy for 12 years, nearly every day and not once did it let me down.  I would have no fear doing a 15 mile trip in the out islands of the Bahamas.  

But the 4 stroke was a nightmare.  Heavy, hard to start, fuel problems, carburettor valves sticking, overheating (Wasps built nests in the cooling fins), difficult to maintain.  I was lucky to get one trip without problems.

[acar555]

As far as the environmental impact goes, both 2 and 4 strokes have to meet the same EPA requirements.  The Etec and Optimax 2 strokes were some of the first engines to become CARB 3 star certified and should meet the 2011 standards.  It comes down to what you want to do with your boat.  If it is just for play and fishing with a lot of trolling the 4 stroke would be the best option.  If you want the most performance then the direct injection 2 strokes are your choice (Etec or Optimax).  Yamaha HPDI is only CARB 2 star and you might not see them after 2010.

[Branuss04]

One thing to check is the regulations on your lakes.  I know we have a handful of lakes in Cali that only allow 4 strokes... I know this is Cali, but it would be a good thing to check where you are at

[jesse D.]

definetly go with the 4-stroke, you will love the money you save in gas.

[done]

   I did not have much choice. The 60 HP all they had were 4 strokes.

   As for Ethanol, the dealer and I talked about it at length. While the motors are rated for 10% he has had a lot of them being brought in and when testing the gas found much higher than 10% mix when the owner swears he never went to t place with more than 10% mix. I just do not buy any gas with any ethenol if I can help it.

[skeetermike]

4-strokes are gutless wonders, heavy too.  I used to build Ethanol plants in the mid-west.  The key ingredient in ethanol is water, so no, neither would do well on ethanol.  4-strokes are quieter running though.  If it was me, I'd get a 2-stroke.

[bigtimfish]

I have a Suzuki 4 stroke and I love it. Very quiet, runs good,easy maint. and gets my boat on plane pretty quick.

[TommyBass]

4-strokes are gutless wonders, heavy too. I used to build Ethanol plants in the mid-west. The key ingredient in ethanol is water, so no, neither would do well on ethanol. 4-strokes are quieter running though. If it was me, I'd get a 2-stroke.

What??? This thread is becomming a barage of false blasphamy.

1) Main ingredient in ethanol is not water. I run the lab of an ethanol plant and there are guidlines as to what buyers will buy (or what you can sell)... and I can tell you that more times than not its actually dryer then most gas. That dosnt mean it won't pick any up somewhere else, but not when its sold, its essentially as close to 200 proof as you can get it. The problem with ethanol isnt as much the moisture as it is its ability to corrode fititngs and piping that were not designed for it (most boats).

2) 4 strokes are a million times more reliable than a two stroke and have less maintenance. How many times more do you have to change the plugs per year on a heavily used two stroke than a four? Several. Unless you have the worst luck ever, you shouldn't hardly ever even have to maintenance your four stroke other than an oil change. Which Id rather buy oil once / year than everytime I fill my gass tank up. And get fuel injected, not carb.

3) Theres nothing worse than sitting there priminng your bulb trying to get a two strok piece of junk to start on a cool morning.... believe me, Ive had many of two stroke Mercs that are a pain in the rear to start. A 4 stroke will fire as soon as you turn the key (at least my Yamaha does).

4) 4 strokes are better gas mileage.  And while they meet the same criteria set by the EPA, a four stroke still burns cleaner, period.  That just makes sense.

5) True that performance is sacrificed on a 4 stroke. Its mostly due to weight, heavier engine = slower boat. They usually cost a little more as well (wonder why, O ya, they're better). On my 18 ft fiberglass boat... the differnence between a 90 two stroke and 90 four stroke was about 100 lbs and 4 mph. I got the 4 stroke and never looked back, best decision I made for my boat.

[detroit1]

The reason they cost more, Tommy, is because there are so many more parts in a 4 compared to a 2 stroke, not because they are better. It IS a royal pain squeezin' the bulb a couple times before the first time i turn the key. Oh and i hate the hours on end it takes me to pull and clean a couple of spark plugs once a month. I love my '96 evinrude 50 hp 2 stroke, may she last forever.....

[Blaine E]

2 stroke. Hands down. Used an '07 Yamaha 75 4 stroke on the Stratos, and have no complaints at all, but my 87 merc will tear it apart.

[TommyBass]

detroit you gave no reasoning for your argument. They don't actually have that many more parts, but Im not sure enough to argue specific numbers, and I imagine each brand is different. Most of the weight is due to the actual size of the engine, just take the covers off and look. The cost is negated anyways since you'll save enough money in the first year or two on gas to make it up, unless you don't use your boat that much. And its usually more than a couple ball squeezes for most two strokes, especially as they get older. Usually several starting attempts, choking, and prolonged idle sessions followed by their plumes of rolling smoke. They have their time and place and can be reliable, just saying if someone has to make the choice from the beginning a 4 is most likely going to benefit them more in the long run (unless they are drag racing).

[South FLA]

With proper maintenance and care both are great motors, but you can't beat a 2 stroke when it comes to performance, but then again its nice to carry on a conversation at WOT with your fishing partner.

[Ellesar]

detroit you gave no reasoning for your argument. They don't actually have that many more parts, but Im not sure enough to argue specific numbers, and I imagine each brand is different. Most of the weight is due to the actual size of the engine, just take the covers off and look. The cost is negated anyways since you'll save enough money in the first year or two on gas to make it up, unless you don't use your boat that much. And its usually more than a couple ball squeezes for most two strokes, especially as they get older. Usually several starting attempts, choking, and prolonged idle sessions followed by their plumes of rolling smoke. They have their time and place and can be reliable, just saying if someone has to make the choice from the beginning a 4 is most likely going to benefit them more in the long run (unless they are drag racing).

The money you save is on oil, not gas. 4 Strokes aren't more efficient on gas usage, you just don't have to burn expensive 2-stroke oil.

If you are comparing new 4 strokes to old 2 strokes, then thats apples and oranges. New 2 strokes don't require choking, several starting attempts, etc. Mine cranks first try every time, no choking.

The reason to let it idle before getting on it has nothing to do with 2 stroke or 4 stroke. You do that to allow the engine to come up to operating temperature before running 6000 rpms. This is especially important when the water is cold. Cold seizures happen in both 4 strokes and 2 strokes.

Tell you this much, call your local OB mechanic and compare the cost of rebuilding a 2 stroke powerhead and a 4 stroke powerhead. The 4 stroke is far more expensive because they are more complex. This is something the Motocross industry has been dealing with as many of the bikes are switching over to 4 stroke motors.

[Catt]

I love the sound a 250 ProXS makes while I love flying across the lake

Get in, sit down, shut up & hold on

[done]

     Is this not almost becoming an academic argument?  From what I have read (assuming it is correct) and heard from some of the dealers, they are making less and less 2 stroke models anymore. From tracker I really did not have much of an option for 2 stroke motors. The only 2 stroke they had was the 50. Everything else was 4 stroke only

    I have to wonder, if they phase out 2 strokes completely (assuming they are doing it) how long will it be before you cannot get parts to work on them.

[RoLo]

Dating back to the 60s, I've owned a throng of 2-stroke outboard engines from 4hp to 200hp

and from Eska to E-Tech. Though I may be an old geezer, I'm not one to resist change,

and today I own and prefer the 4-stroke engine. The 4-stroke has virtually every advantage over the 2-stroke engine,

with two exceptions: The 4-stroke engine weighs more and the initial outlay is greater, but beyond that it's all good news.

Roger

[EastMarkME]

Its all a matter of personal taste of course.

My experience owning both also is four stroke is the only way to go today. I dont know of anybody personally that went from 2 to 4 and back to 2...seeing and owning is believing.

Same thing we've seen happening with snowmobiles and off road ATV/dirt machines. Theres a reason dealers are offering less and less 2 stroke options in stock. People like them. Whats 60-100 lbs in reality even matter unless your racing your boat or fishing big time $ tourneys every month ? These things fly...and they are really quiet and dependable.

Doesnt make 2 strokes a bad thing. Just no longer my thing. I like backing out of the ramp and smelling the sweet air of dawn and hearing the loons. Thats why they make chocolate AND vanilla. ;-)

Mark

[Matt Fly]

4-strokes are gutless wonders, heavy too. I used to build Ethanol plants in the mid-west. The key ingredient in ethanol is water, so no, neither would do well on ethanol. 4-strokes are quieter running though. If it was me, I'd get a 2-stroke.

What??? This thread is becomming a barage of false blasphamy.

1) Main ingredient in ethanol is not water. I run the lab of an ethanol plant and there are guidlines as to what buyers will buy (or what you can sell)... and I can tell you that more times than not its actually dryer then most gas. That dosnt mean it won't pick any up somewhere else, but not when its sold, its essentially as close to 200 proof as you can get it. The problem with ethanol isnt as much the moisture as it is its ability to corrode fititngs and piping that were not designed for it (most boats).

2) 4 strokes are a million times more reliable than a two stroke and have less maintenance. How many times more do you have to change the plugs per year on a heavily used two stroke than a four? Several. Unless you have the worst luck ever, you shouldn't hardly ever even have to maintenance your four stroke other than an oil change. Which Id rather buy oil once / year than everytime I fill my gass tank up. And get fuel injected, not carb.

3) Theres nothing worse than sitting there priminng your bulb trying to get a two strok piece of junk to start on a cool morning.... believe me, Ive had many of two stroke Mercs that are a pain in the rear to start. A 4 stroke will fire as soon as you turn the key (at least my Yamaha does).

4) 4 strokes are better gas mileage. And while they meet the same criteria set by the EPA, a four stroke still burns cleaner, period. That just makes sense.

5) True that performance is sacrificed on a 4 stroke. Its mostly due to weight, heavier engine = slower boat. They usually cost a little more as well (wonder why, O ya, they're better). On my 18 ft fiberglass boat... the differnence between a 90 two stroke and 90 four stroke was about 100 lbs and 4 mph. I got the 4 stroke and never looked back, best decision I made for my boat.

EPA standards are driving outboard companies to build 4strokes,  ie 4 strokes will meet new standards that are popping up in alot of states that are twice as strict as the old laws.

  Thanks, there was some bad opinions being share that were way off base and not even close.

 

 

[TommyBass]

detroit you gave no reasoning for your argument. They don't actually have that many more parts, but Im not sure enough to argue specific numbers, and I imagine each brand is different. Most of the weight is due to the actual size of the engine, just take the covers off and look. The cost is negated anyways since you'll save enough money in the first year or two on gas to make it up, unless you don't use your boat that much. And its usually more than a couple ball squeezes for most two strokes, especially as they get older. Usually several starting attempts, choking, and prolonged idle sessions followed by their plumes of rolling smoke. They have their time and place and can be reliable, just saying if someone has to make the choice from the beginning a 4 is most likely going to benefit them more in the long run (unless they are drag racing).

The money you save is on oil, not gas. 4 Strokes aren't more efficient on gas usage, you just don't have to burn expensive 2-stroke oil.

If you are comparing new 4 strokes to old 2 strokes, then thats apples and oranges. New 2 strokes don't require choking, several starting attempts, etc. Mine cranks first try every time, no choking.

The reason to let it idle before getting on it has nothing to do with 2 stroke or 4 stroke. You do that to allow the engine to come up to operating temperature before running 6000 rpms. This is especially important when the water is cold. Cold seizures happen in both 4 strokes and 2 strokes.

Tell you this much, call your local OB mechanic and compare the cost of rebuilding a 2 stroke powerhead and a 4 stroke powerhead. The 4 stroke is far more expensive because they are more complex. This is something the Motocross industry has been dealing with as many of the bikes are switching over to 4 stroke motors.

I guess I have never used a two stroke younger than a 2003, but that one sure wasn't how you described.

From what I have seen, the charts on gph on two stroke and 4 stroke motor comparisons state nothing about oil used, just simply the 4 stroke gets better gph, period.  

I wasn't wondering why people left them idling, Ive had experience with HAVING to leave them idle so they won't die when rev'd, even on warm water.

And why would I want to worry about which one is more expensive to rebuild?  Don't blow your motor up to begin with and you don't have to worry about it.

Matt, your exactly right, they are much easier to pass.  

MStarr, I heard the same thing.  In fact my Yamaha dealer anticipated they would quit making them all together in the near future due to environmental issues... sure would make parts and fixing them raise when all two strokes get discontinued... a point they seemed to emphasize.

[Ellesar]

detroit you gave no reasoning for your argument. They don't actually have that many more parts, but Im not sure enough to argue specific numbers, and I imagine each brand is different. Most of the weight is due to the actual size of the engine, just take the covers off and look. The cost is negated anyways since you'll save enough money in the first year or two on gas to make it up, unless you don't use your boat that much. And its usually more than a couple ball squeezes for most two strokes, especially as they get older. Usually several starting attempts, choking, and prolonged idle sessions followed by their plumes of rolling smoke. They have their time and place and can be reliable, just saying if someone has to make the choice from the beginning a 4 is most likely going to benefit them more in the long run (unless they are drag racing).

The money you save is on oil, not gas. 4 Strokes aren't more efficient on gas usage, you just don't have to burn expensive 2-stroke oil.

If you are comparing new 4 strokes to old 2 strokes, then thats apples and oranges. New 2 strokes don't require choking, several starting attempts, etc. Mine cranks first try every time, no choking.

The reason to let it idle before getting on it has nothing to do with 2 stroke or 4 stroke. You do that to allow the engine to come up to operating temperature before running 6000 rpms. This is especially important when the water is cold. Cold seizures happen in both 4 strokes and 2 strokes.

Tell you this much, call your local OB mechanic and compare the cost of rebuilding a 2 stroke powerhead and a 4 stroke powerhead. The 4 stroke is far more expensive because they are more complex. This is something the Motocross industry has been dealing with as many of the bikes are switching over to 4 stroke motors.

I guess I have never used a two stroke younger than a 2003, but that one sure wasn't how you described.

From what I have seen, the charts on gph on two stroke and 4 stroke motor comparisons state nothing about oil used, just simply the 4 stroke gets better gph, period.

I wasn't wondering why people left them idling, Ive had experience with HAVING to leave them idle so they won't die when rev'd, even on warm water.

And why would I want to worry about which one is more expensive to rebuild? Don't blow your motor up to begin with and you don't have to worry about it.

Matt, your exactly right, they are much easier to pass.

MStarr, I heard the same thing. In fact my Yamaha dealer anticipated they would quit making them all together in the near future due to environmental issues... sure would make parts and fixing them raise when all two strokes get discontinued... a point they seemed to emphasize.

When I had a 4 stroke I didn't have to buy 2-3 gallons of oil at $25-$35 a gallon every few tanks of gas. All I had to do was put gas in the tank. 4 Strokes don't require that the oil used for lubrication to be mixed with the gas. Looking at the charts on Mercury's web site, the mpg between the Verado and the Pro XS are almost identical. I've found that I use the same amount of gas with my 2 stroke that I did with my 4 stroke, my "gas" budget hasn't changed. But having to spend $100.00 a month on 2 stroke oil in addition to the gas was a bit of a surprise.