Shorter vs Longer rods sensitivity

[johnsmith]

Last post for the night haha, im getting all my gear last minute as the ice is starting to clear. Would a 7 feet rod be more or less sensitive then a 7'3? Im referring to kistler rods if that matters.

[Spankey]

Is your thought because the rod is longer they become less sensitive? I don’t fish a Kistler. But a 6’10”, 7’, 7’2” SC Avid seem to be equally as sensitive. The SC Avids are my favorites of my rods. I fish a 5’9” version to fish tubes and grubs near docks and low hanging trees. Quite a bit shorter but not greater sensitivity or less sensitive. 

[Catt]

Sensitivity depends largely on who is holding the rod.

 

[00bullitt]

Sensitivity is very subjective. Several factors contribute to sensitivity as well; what type of line you use, overall weight of the rod and reel in the hand, balance, stiffness, material, guide types and wraps, handles, handle material, etc.

 

I find that the Shimano Poison Adrena is more sensitive and balanced than my G. Loomis NRX. Others will disagree. I have no experience with Kistler, but have heard that they use Point Blank blanks. I do have a custom rod built on a Point Blank and feel that it transmits sensitivity very well. Its 7'3" and feels more sensitive than my 6'11" Poison Adrena when I use braid. I don't get near the same feel with straight fluoro. As mentioned above, certain things contribute.

 

There is some theory that shorter rods have less material to transmit through. And then there are those that believe that the shorter rod is stiffer and stiffer rods are known to transmit sensitivity a little better. I don't buy into that theory anymore and feel its more driven by materials and technology. 

I am very much a believer in lighter rods being easier to feel the bottom and have seen proof of that many times over. Most of the newer materials are super light and those are deemed the most sensitive.

 

Now, with that said....I can take my G. Loomis E6x 6'10" 822SYR spinning rod and the exact same model in the NRX and fish in 10-20' of water and feel minimal difference. I quickly start seeing the benefits of the NRX as I go deeper. I can feel bites on the Drop Shot with the NRX in 50' of water that I had no clue touched the E6x. Subtle bites on the lesser quality blanks are more pronounced on higher quality blanks. Its all relative.

I do feel as if there is a point of diminishing return with lesser quality blanks and that each person will notice those differently.

 

Closing statement.....some of my favorite rods are the Shimano Zodias line. I have some extreme high end rods and fish the Zodias more than anything else. I DO NOT feel a disadvantage one bit and still catch a ton of fish. I would easily say that the Zodias rods are my confidence rods. I liked them so much, I HAD to venture into the Poison Adrena line to see what the difference was. While impressive, I still love the Zodias!

 

Look at the pros....many of them are winning with $100-$150 rods (Bass Pro, Abu Garcia, Lew's, Dobyns, etc.). The old saying goes; "its the Indian, not the arrow". While that is true to some extent, invest in the most optimized equipment you can afford and will believe in. Confidence in what you use plays a HUGE role!

 

[Catt]

It's called personal preference! 

 

Sensitivity starts in the hands & continues up to the brain.

 

Let me explain it this way!

 

I could put any high end reel on any high end rod, spool it with braid for maximum sensitivity, tie on a Texas rig & then give it to my wife. She could not "feel" any difference had I had rigged it up on a Berkley Lightening rod!

 

Why? Cause what is transmitted up the line, down the rod, through the hands will be lost in the brain. She doesn't fish & would not be able to interpret what she is feeling.

 

Even for the average angler a certain amount of "sensitivity" is lost in the brain!

[00bullitt]

16 minutes ago, Catt said:

It's called personal preference! 

 

Sensitivity starts in the hands & continues up to the brain.

 

Let me explain it this way!

 

I could put any high end reel on any high end rod, spool it with braid for maximum sensitivity, tie on a Texas rig & then give it to my wife. She could not "feel" any difference had I had rigged it up on a Berkley Lightening rod!

 

Why? Cause what is transmitted up the line, down the rod, through the hands will be lost in the brain. She doesn't fish & would not be able to interpret what she is feeling.

 

Even for the average angler a certain amount of "sensitivity" is lost in the brain!

 

 

Fantastic analogy!

 

 

[fissure_man]

Perhaps "strike detection" is in the hands and brain of the angler, but why couldn't "sensitivity" be quantified?

 

[Deephaven]

If EVERYTHING else is equal the longer rod is more sensitive.  Simple fulcrum Physics will show that if you have something out a long ways the force is higher.  Of course, that makes the assumption that all else is equal which is impossible.  Rod material, stiffness, weight all will have an effect.

 

The question that can be answered is will it make a difference for you.  This is harder to answer, but in general as long as the combo stays light and is well balanced I would take a longer stick for applications where sensitivity is desired.  At some point the extra length will make things out of balance and heavy and that should be avoided.

[Team9nine]

Two rods, exact same brand, model, action, make and materials - shorter is more sensitive.

[00bullitt]

Back 30 years ago, my old man used to "Feel" sensitivity between two blanks/rods by placing the rod tip on my adams apple and having me say ahhhhhhhh! He was able to objectively compare rods side by side in his mind and choose the one that transmitted the vibration/sensitivity better and would assume in his mind that one was ultimately more sensitive. This does not take into account line type and balance and most importantly the brain's ability to process which was so well said in the prior post.

 

[Catt]

The most sensitive worm rod I've ever owned was a 5' 6" medium heavy fast Shimano Crucial.

 

The down side was I fish a lot of 12-18' of water, setting hook better be done with authority.

[johnsmith]

2 hours ago, Catt said:

It's called personal preference! 

 

Sensitivity starts in the hands & continues up to the brain.

 

Let me explain it this way!

 

I could put any high end reel on any high end rod, spool it with braid for maximum sensitivity, tie on a Texas rig & then give it to my wife. She could not "feel" any difference had I had rigged it up on a Berkley Lightening rod!

 

Why? Cause what is transmitted up the line, down the rod, through the hands will be lost in the brain. She doesn't fish & would not be able to interpret what she is feeling.

 

Even for the average angler a certain amount of "sensitivity" is lost in the brain!

Wow catt, I never thought of it that way but you are right. Guess confidence plays a role in sensitivity then?

[Mobasser]

The main reason were all fishing longer rods now, is because that's what's available to us. Shorter rods will still work too. It's all personal preference.

[DitchPanda]

6 hours ago, Catt said:

It's called personal preference! 

 

Sensitivity starts in the hands & continues up to the brain.

 

Let me explain it this way!

 

I could put any high end reel on any high end rod, spool it with braid for maximum sensitivity, tie on a Texas rig & then give it to my wife. She could not "feel" any difference had I had rigged it up on a Berkley Lightening rod!

 

Why? Cause what is transmitted up the line, down the rod, through the hands will be lost in the brain. She doesn't fish & would not be able to interpret what she is feeling.

 

Even for the average angler a certain amount of "sensitivity" is lost in the brain!

Haha this cracks me up and hits close to home. When I started dating my girlfriend years ago she had never really fished and wanted me to teach her. I recall several times when she looked at me and said how do I know when he has the bait? I'd turn around to see the rod getting pulled straight down but she had no way to interpret what was going on

[Deephaven]

5 hours ago, Team9nine said:

Two rods, exact same brand, model, action, make and materials - shorter is more sensitive.

I have 2 rods, exact same blank, but one is built to be longer (extended the butt) and the longer one is more sensitive.

[WRB]

Your fishing rod isn’t sensitive, your fingers tips are.

Every rod dampens line movement depending on the modulus of the materials used, line and guides. 

It’s all about detecting line movements, vibration don’t travel up the line through water.

Tom

 

[roadwarrior]

4 minutes ago, WRB said:

Your fishing rod isn’t sensitive, your fingers tips are.

Every rod dampens line movement depending on the modulus of the materials used, line and guides. 

It’s all about detecting line movements, vibration don’t travel up the line through water.

Tom

 

 

Well, I don't understand...When I "feel" that tick-tick fishing a soft plastic I don't usually

see anything or feel line movement from 30 yards out or maybe we do. Explain please.

[Team9nine]

19 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

I have 2 rods, exact same blank, but one is built to be longer (extended the butt) and the longer one is more sensitive.

 

Same here; multiple models of same rod and action, except the shorter ones are always more sensitive in my case. They’re lighter, stiffer and better balanced. I could see how a specialty build like yours might offset the differences enough, but it would be the exception, not the rule, especially in mass production lineups, I’d say.

[WRB]

23 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

 

Well, I don't understand...When I "feel" that tick-tick fishing a soft plastic I don't usually

see anything or feel line movement from 30 yards out or maybe we do. Explain please.

The tick is the line moving back and forth or up and down moving the line back and forth. Vibration is a sine wave or S curve moving up or down the line, water completely damps vibrations on the line. 

You can shake a rope up and on the ground and theS wave travel down the rope. Put the rope in a pool and try shaking it, no S wave trading down the rope under water.

Tom

[roadwarrior]

Thank you!

[Deephaven]

3 hours ago, Team9nine said:

 

Same here; multiple models of same rod and action, except the shorter ones are always more sensitive in my case. They’re lighter, stiffer and better balanced. I could see how a specialty build like yours might offset the differences enough, but it would be the exception, not the rule, especially in mass production lineups, I’d say.

Exactly why I posted my experience.  Yours are completely different blanks.  Mine the exact same blank.  The extension is a piece of another scrap rod glued into the end of it and wrapped in cork.  Not surprised that manufacturers make a shorter rod lighter.  To keep the same action by default they have to.  For instance extending my fast from 7' to nearly 8' made it closer to an extra fast as I extended the part of the blank that doesn't bend.  Means that manufacturers have to have a different blank.  A shorter blank of the same material with the same power and action ratings will be lighter.  When all things are equal the longer rod is more sensitive....but it is fundamentally impossible to keep all things equal.

So yeah, to be fair mine are now different blanks as well...but the portion that provides feedback is identical outside of reel seat and guide placement.

[jbrew73]

3 hours ago, WRB said:

The tick is the line moving back and forth or up and down moving the line back and forth. Vibration is a sine wave or S curve moving up or down the line, water completely damps vibrations on the line. 

You can shake a rope up and on the ground and theS wave travel down the rope. Put the rope in a pool and try shaking it, no S wave trading down the rope under water.

Tom

Vibration is a word often used out of context when it come to rod sensitivity.   Sensitivity when comparing rods has little or nothing to do with vibration. To me it boils down to the rotation of your wrist or the load placed on your fingers as you hold the rod and the line has added or subtracted pull.  

 

To answer the OP’s question, I feel shorter rods transmit line movements to the hands of the fisherman better than longer rods.  Balance, torque, leverage all are a factor on how your hand and ultimately your brain interprets the line movement.  

[mrpao]

9 hours ago, Team9nine said:

Two rods, exact same brand, model, action, make and materials - shorter is more sensitive.

I agree completely.

Example: old model poison adrenas.

6'10 med light.

6'10 med 

6'10 med hvy.

7'2 med.

7'2 med hvy

The 6'10 med light is the most sensitive of all these rods. Less distance and material for the vibrations to travel through.

The 7'2 med hvy is the least sensitive.

 

[FishTank]

I have an old G. Loomis 783C GLX.  It's still the most sensitive rod I own.  So I guess shorter for me.

[Team9nine]

31 minutes ago, Deephaven said:

 When all things are equal the longer rod is more sensitive....but it is fundamentally impossible to keep all things equal.

 

So then no fair way to compare sensitivity if you can never compare equally because even identical rod lines are built differently based on length, thereby making the question in a sense, unanswerable?

 

I've got multiple rods from the same line listed as the same action from a couple different manufacturers, just different lengths (6', 6'6", 7'0"), and all I can add is that the shorter rods have the best senstivity in each case.

 

Quote

So yeah, to be fair mine are now different blanks as well...but the portion that provides feedback is identical outside of reel seat and guide placement.

 

Trying to understaand your mods. So you didn't actually increase blank length, just handle length? So the rod blank now doesn't run through the full handle to the butt, or it does because you added a longer handle/reel seat but shortened the working length of the rod (the part above the reel seat)? Wouldn't that then add weight but create better overall balance? And you rewrapped the guides, which would also change how sensitive the rod is?

 

Asking because I'm not a rod builder, but have studied it a bit.