State Record Smallmouth/Largemouth Hybrid Bass Caught, Potential World Record

[A-Jay]

A 7.60-pound smallmouth/largemouth hybrid bass caught on Mar. 1, 2021 by Wyatt Frankens has just been certified as the new Texas state record by Texas Parks and Wildlife. Not only is it the state record, but it just might be the new world record as well, according to the IGFA. According to Frankens, it is expected to be official once the paperwork is submitted and approved. Tissue samples from the bass were collected by Texas Parks and Wildlife and biologists confirmed that the bass was indeed a smallmouth/largemouth hybrid.

 

 

Congratulations to Wyatt Frankens on the catch of a lifetime !

A-Jay

[Way north bass guy]

That’s a cool looking fish, and a pudgy one at that. 

[A-Jay]

12 minutes ago, Way north bass guy said:

That’s a cool looking fish, and a pudgy one at that. 

Sure is - wish I had access to a lake full of these things.

That would be very exciting.

Wonder if I could petition the MI DNR to start a stocking program on Lake Menderchuck. 

So if it's a hybrid is it a Breen Bass or a Grown Bass ?

?

A-Jay

 

 

[snake95]

1 hour ago, A-Jay said:

A 7.60-pound smallmouth/largemouth hybrid bass

Sounds like a real Frankens-tien bass!  Wow!

 

I guess it was Frankens' time.

3 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Breen Bass or a Grown Bass

I think it would be fine to name it a Frankens' bass.

 

Pretty awesome that this is a natural beast and not created in a lab!

[gim]

I wasn’t even aware that there was a hybrid.

[CountryboyinDC]

I didn't realize that largemouth and smallmouth produced a viable F1, and aside from a 9 year-old In-Fisherman article, didn't find much info that I would consider authoritative.  Interesting that we don't see more of these.  Anyone know why the bass caught in PA in 1993 wouldn't be the IGFA record?

[WRB]

Does IGFA have a LMB/Smallmouth hydrid classification? 

IGFA doesn’t have a NLMB and Florida strain LMB as separate Classifications.

Tom

 

[MIbassyaker]

39 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Sure is - wish I had access to a lake full of these things.

That would be very exciting.

Wonder if I could petition the MI DNR to start a stocking program on Lake Menderchuck. 

So if it's a hybrid is it a Breen Bass or a Grown Bass ?

?

A-Jay

 

 

 

What I don't understand is why we don't already catch Breen/Grown bass in MI.  A wide variety of lakes and river systems have healthy populations of both Green and Brown, and in some cases they occupy the same locations (not all, of course -- prob. more common in smaller waters) .  In one particular place I fish that has both species, my green and brown "Lake PBs" came from almost exactly the same spot, one week apart.

 

And while ideal spawning areas are somewhat different, I would bet the available spawning areas in many smaller waters are more or less the same for both species. 

 

Perhaps it comes down to timing, with SM spawning at slightly cooler WTs than LM. Compared to southern waters, our spawning periods up here tend to be shortened. Maybe in southern waters LM and SM spawning overlap for a longer period of time, creating more opportunity for (rare) hybrids to occur.

[Bird]

Surprised they'd breed in open water but beautiful fish nonetheless. 

 

I've kept many breeds of south and central American cichlids in closed environments and mixed breeds were common place but frowned upon by breeders. 

 

BUT, have to agree, find me a lake where these 2 beautiful fish make love and I'm all in.

 

 

[Munkin]

17 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I wasn’t even aware that there was a hybrid.

Me either? I have caught a meanmouth before. 

Allen 

[Boomstick]

23 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I wasn’t even aware that there was a hybrid.

Me too. I wonder why we don't see more of them - or maybe we do and don't realize it?

[Team9nine]

It's pretty rare and certainly not the norm. That Texas lake has the right (unusual) conditions apparently to make it happen. This is another now confirmed 7 lb. hybrid caught that same week, same lake.

 

 

[MIbassyaker]

42 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

It's pretty rare and certainly not the norm. That Texas lake has the right (unusual) conditions apparently to make it happen. This is another now confirmed 7 lb. hybrid caught that same week, same lake.

 

 

Is there any indication what, specifically, those conditions are? I would expect necessary requirements to include (1) both species use the same spawning locations and (2) the spawns overlap significantly in time.

 

I would expect this to be less common in waters where both LM and SM are native as most likely reason for different LM and SM species in the first place is reproductive isolation within their native ranges.

 

I found this from a study by Near et al. (2003) who analyzed genetic similarity of Largemouth, Smallmouth,  & Spots, as well as other members of the sunfish family. In the study they find that  smallmouth and spots diverged about 1 million years ago, while Largemouth split off much earlier, about 11 million years ago:

 

Hybridization among species of Micropterus is rare under natural conditions, but extensive introgression between M. dolomieu [smallmouth] and M. punctulatus [spotted] has been documented on two occasions when either species has been introduced into areas not naturally containing the other species (Koppelman 1994; Avise et al. 1997).

 

In other words, you get these hybrids only under the right conditions, when you put different species together where they didn't originate.

[Team9nine]

12 minutes ago, MIbassyaker said:

 

 

Is there any indication what, specifically, those conditions are? I would expect necessary requirements to include (1) both species use the same spawning locations and (2) the spawns overlap significantly in time.

 

I would expect this to be less common in waters where both LM and SM are native as most likely reason for different LM and SM species in the first place is reproductive isolation within their native ranges.

 

I found this from a study by Near et al. (2003) who analyzed genetic similarity of Largemouth, Smallmouth,  & Spots, as well as other members of the sunfish family. In the study they find that  smallmouth and spots diverged about 1 million years ago, while Largemouth split off much earlier, about 11 million years ago:

 

Hybridization among species of Micropterus is rare under natural conditions, but extensive introgression between M. dolomieu [smallmouth] and M. punctulatus [spotted] has been documented on two occasions when either species has been introduced into areas not naturally containing the other species (Koppelman 1994; Avise et al. 1997).

 

In other words, you get these hybrids only under the right conditions, when you put different species together where they didn't originate.

 

Agree with all the above. I can dig around a little tomorrow, but from what I can recall, what we now know as "meanmouth," which are smallie/spot hybrids, are the more common hybrid in nature. The original term though ("meanmouth") was given to lab created LMB/SMB hybrids. Here is a good synopsis:

 

Hybrid bass article

 

[Bird]

16 minutes ago, MIbassyaker said:

 

 

Is there any indication what, specifically, those conditions are? I would expect necessary requirements to include (1) both species use the same spawning locations and (2) the spawns overlap significantly in time.

 

I would expect this to be less common in waters where both LM and SM are native as most likely reason for different LM and SM species in the first place is reproductive isolation within their native ranges.

 

I found this from a study by Near et al. (2003) who analyzed genetic similarity of Largemouth, Smallmouth,  & Spots, as well as other members of the sunfish family. In the study they find that  smallmouth and spots diverged about 1 million years ago, while Largemouth split off much earlier, about 11 million years ago:

 

Hybridization among species of Micropterus is rare under natural conditions, but extensive introgression between M. dolomieu [smallmouth] and M. punctulatus [spotted] has been documented on two occasions when either species has been introduced into areas not naturally containing the other species (Koppelman 1994; Avise et al. 1997).

 

In other words, you get these hybrids only under the right conditions, when you put different species together where they didn't originate.

Have to agree. 

Two species that are native to a specific body of water would not likely crossbreed but an introductory breed would increase the likelihood of this phenomenon. 

[MIbassyaker]

13 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

 

Agree with all the above. I can dig around a little tomorrow, but from what I can recall, what we now know as "meanmouth," which are smallie/spot hybrids, are the more common hybrid in nature. The original term though ("meanmouth") was given to lab created LMB/SMB hybrids. Here is a good synopsis:

 

Hybrid bass article

 

 

Ah, this is what @CountryboyinDC is referring to above:
 

In 1993, Rich Fry caught an 8-pound 3-ounce bass from a Pennsylvania mine pit that was genetically identified as a first-generation hybrid of a largemouth and a smallmouth bass.

 

Indeed, why was this not the record?

[TnRiver46]

On 3/14/2021 at 8:06 PM, MIbassyaker said:

 

What I don't understand is why we don't already catch Breen/Grown bass in MI.  A wide variety of lakes and river systems have healthy populations of both Green and Brown, and in some cases they occupy the same locations (not all, of course -- prob. more common in smaller waters) .  In one particular place I fish that has both species, my green and brown "Lake PBs" came from almost exactly the same spot, one week apart.

 

And while ideal spawning areas are somewhat different, I would bet the available spawning areas in many smaller waters are more or less the same for both species. 

 

Perhaps it comes down to timing, with SM spawning at slightly cooler WTs than LM. Compared to southern waters, our spawning periods up here tend to be shortened. Maybe in southern waters LM and SM spawning overlap for a longer period of time, creating more opportunity for (rare) hybrids to occur.

Yeah, almost all waters have both LM and SM here and they don’t interbreed. Spots and smallies sure do though 

[Bluebasser86]

I caught a bass from Table Rock several years ago that I thought looked like a LMB/SMB hybrid at the time but no way of being sure. I've caught a few meanmouths from Table Rock and one from Stockton though. Always cool to catch one.

[clh121787]

Huge congratulations to the angler. The State is kicking out a lot of giant fish. And an incredible amount of teeners. Hopefully I finally get mine. 

[Dwight Hottle]

11 hours ago, MIbassyaker said:

 

Ah, this is what @CountryboyinDC is referring to above:
 

In 1993, Rich Fry caught an 8-pound 3-ounce bass from a Pennsylvania mine pit that was genetically identified as a first-generation hybrid of a largemouth and a smallmouth bass.

 

Indeed, why was this not the record?

 

Just because it was caught & documented does not necessarily make it a new record. To achieve an IGFA record you must first submit it to IGFA & follow ALL of their rules & regulations to be considered. 

[PotatoLake]

15 hours ago, A-Jay said:

Sure is - wish I had access to a lake full of these things.

That would be very exciting.

Wonder if I could petition the MI DNR to start a stocking program on Lake Menderchuck. 

So if it's a hybrid is it a Breen Bass or a Grown Bass ?

?

A-Jay

 

 

It looked pretty "Grown" to me.

[CountryboyinDC]

3 hours ago, Dwight Hottle said:

 

Just because it was caught & documented does not necessarily make it a new record. To achieve an IGFA record you must first submit it to IGFA & follow ALL of their rules & regulations to be considered. 

Yeah, I was kind of curious, and I definitely don't know the answer.  It could well be, as @WRB eluded to, that these fish don't have a category in IGFA.  That would make sense, if they are as rare as this discussion suggests.  I did feel as though if a fish that had the genetic testing to determine it a smallmouth/largemouth hybrid in 1993, the angler that caught it might be the type to jump through those hoops.  I'm fairly certain that that genetic testing of fish was not routine at that time, and probably used some archaic technique like Southern blotting.  Definitely more information in this thread than I found from a cursory internet search.  Interesting stuff for sure.

[volzfan59]

Is a hybrid Smallmouth/ Largemouth what is refered to as a "mean mouth"?

[Team9nine]

10 minutes ago, volzfan59 said:

Is a hybrid Smallmouth/ Largemouth what is refered to as a "mean mouth"?

 

Generally not these days. What you see most on the Internet listed as "meanmouth" is a smallie/spot hybrid. However, the term first originated by scientists in the lab that created a smallie/LMB hybrid and referred to it as such. Over time, that original definition kind of faded away and the newer one (smallie/spot) became the norm. Even more confusing is that in some cases, you see every suspected hybrid bass referred to by some as "meanmouth" - lol

[Big Hands]

If I fished for these hybrid bass, could I be considered a "grown bass man"?