Living on a Lake

[Espo66]

Hey Everyone,

 

I know plenty on this site must have dreamed the same dream, then researched it and hopefully made it happen.

 

I’ve been researching lakes and lake homes down in the southeast.  As I get closer to “that age” I keep dreaming of having waterfront property, boat in the back, tied to my own boathouse/dock/mooring. It is just not going to happen up here in my area(Connecticut), as the $$ for that lifestyle is too high. I may, however, be able to make it happen in some southern states. Of course, I have the same requirements as those hoping to soon retire; tax friendly state, nice weather…also trying to stay close to home (reasonable driving distance to CT)

 

Any feedback or advice (Pros/Cons) with regards to the below areas and lakes

 

Cherokee Lake: Tennessee : Like the fact that it is in Eastern Tenn, has great bass fishing, and seems to be near some nice trout fishing in the smokey mountain state forest and local tributaries.

 

Chickamauga Lake: Tennessee: Same, except more central Tenn and pushing 13 hrs of a drive back to CT. This lake seems to get lots of allocates in the Bassmaster circuit, but maybe a bad thing (lots of boat traffic?) Also, waterfront houses may be a bit to much $ for my budget.

 

Santee Cooper Lakes South Carolina: Just started getting familiar with these. Two lakes connected by a canal, huge lakes too! More affordable and a bit closer to home. Also an hour away from the saltwater and Atlantic coast.

 

I have a bunch more in my spreadsheet, but these were the leading candidates based on what I’ve seen. I plan to get down and fish/see them in person this summer.

 

Please throw out any and all ideas, advice, experiences that you can.

 

Thanks!

 

Larry

 

[roadwarrior]

TN has no state income tax.

[Espo66]

2 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

TN has no state income tax.

Yupper!  

 

And they (the states) can be pretty squirrelly about it. CT taxes everything, except SS depending on your income bracket. Also, my property taxes are approx 11K/year!

 

I'm not a financial planner, but from what I can gather, below are the types of Income and what the state levies tax on. One of the reasons I took North Carolina off my list.

 

Social Security/Pension/401K/Inheritance

 

Tennesse: No/No/No/No and no state tax, pretty low property tax

North Carolina: No/Yes/Yes/No plus they have a state and a sales tax

South Carolina: No/No/No/No and no state tax. Property tax average seems to the the lowest of the 4

Florida: No/No/No/No and no state tax. Property taxes are the highest of these 4 states.

 

 

 

 

[TOXIC]

I have been retired for almost 2 years and have been doing the same search as you but I have narrowed it down to Florida.  No state income tax and the wife has a sister and brother-in-law who have a beach house on Cresent beach close to st Augustine.  Initially I wanted some sort of waterfront and Florida has no shortage of lakes, canals, rivers, the inter coastal and the ocean but beach living is not in my budget even though I really like surf fishing.  Right now Florida real estate is red hot from a lot of people moving out of big cities on the east coast.  Since we have a place to stay for free, we are planning a few trips down to check out different areas and see if anything fits my requirements.  We are taking it slow since hopefully this will be our last move and we will be selling our home here in Virginia that we have been in for 30 years and it is our big nest egg for the Florida move.  My biggest requirement is that we move somewhere where winter will never find me again.?

[roadwarrior]

SC has a state income tax. 

[MN Fisher]

13 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

SC has a state income tax. 

"As of 2021, seven states — Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming — levy no state income tax. Two others, New Hampshire and Tennessee, don't tax earned wages. While Tennessee used to tax investment income and interest, the Hall income tax was fully repealed on Jan. 1, 2021.2 New Hampshire currently taxes investment income and interest, but it is set to eliminate those taxes soon. That will bring the number of states with no income tax to nine by 2024."

https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0210/7-states-with-no-income-tax.aspx

 

[Espo66]

13 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

I have been retired for almost 2 years and have been doing the same search as you but I have narrowed it down to Florida.  No state income tax and the wife has a sister and brother-in-law who have a beach house on Cresent beach close to st Augustine.  Initially I wanted some sort of waterfront and Florida has no shortage of lakes, canals, rivers, the inter coastal and the ocean but beach living is not in my budget even though I really like surf fishing.  Right now Florida real estate is red hot from a lot of people moving out of big cities on the east coast.  Since we have a place to stay for free, we are planning a few trips down to check out different areas and see if anything fits my requirements.  We are taking it slow since hopefully this will be our last move and we will be selling our home here in Virginia that we have been in for 30 years and it is our big nest egg for the Florida move.  My biggest requirement is that we move somewhere where winter will never find me again.?

 

Florida is an option, I have in-laws there and my oldest wants to move there next year. My son wants to stay in CT, so being in the middle of CT and Florida is ideal for my situation.

 

Florida is always the first choice for retirees. I'm trying to see other options first.

 

Hope winter stays off your tail!

 

 

5 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

"As of 2021, seven states — Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming — levy no state income tax. Two others, New Hampshire and Tennessee, don't tax earned wages. While Tennessee used to tax investment income and interest, the Hall income tax was fully repealed on Jan. 1, 2021.2 New Hampshire currently taxes investment income and interest, but it is set to eliminate those taxes soon. That will bring the number of states with no income tax to nine by 2024."

https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0210/7-states-with-no-income-tax.aspx

 

 

Yeah, said they were squirrelly!

 

I don't mind paying a little state tax if between pension/ss/401k puts me in a payable bracket. TBT, the local property tax is what is killing me up here. The states I mentioned all have sales tax too, I know New Hampshire up here does not. At least you can control the sales tax (somewhat)

 

 

 

 

[DaubsNU1]

Will be fun and interesting to watch this thread. Nebraska taxes are very high, but schools are some of the top in the nation (my daughters HS was ranked in top 1000 nationally), and roads/infrastructure is well maintained. 

 

But the d**n taxes...property tax is $10k a year...even have a wheel tax on vehicles(!).

 

Doubtful I will ever move...family is here...we are super close. I would opt for Wyoming, but the wife refuses to move anywhere colder. And then there is family...did I mention we are close.

 

Good luck with your search! Enjoy!!

[TnRiver46]

Cherokee lake is 30 feet low for 7-8 months out of the year, I imagine a boat lift wouldn’t be possible there, you see a lot of docks out in the middle of the mud flats all winter.  Chickamauga only goes down about 7-8 feet and is only lowered for about 6 months, lots of people use lifts there. Chickamauga is also the most crowded/heavily fished lake you will find outside of California if I had to guess. Property on Cherokee should be more affordable as it’s kind of in the middle of nowhere. Parts of chickamauga are in the middle of nowhere too but the lower end is more populous. Might want to check into watts bar lake 

 

one thing you will enjoy about the south is the humans, they are typically very friendly 

 

you can’t hide from Uncle Sam! 

[Jigfishn10]

15 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

one thing you will enjoy about the south is the humans, they are typically very friendly 

You trying tp say I'm not friendly to you??

1 hour ago, MN Fisher said:

 New Hampshire currently taxes investment income and interest, but it is set to eliminate those taxes soon.

Property taxes in NH will make you puke.

[TnRiver46]

3 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

You trying tp say I'm not friendly to you??

Property taxes in NH will make you puke.

You caught me! 

[N Florida Mike]

I probably shouldn’t post this ( because we have plenty of people here already) ,  but you can find an amazingly affordable place on one of the million or so lakes in the INTERIOR of Florida. Theres a lake I used to fish near Melrose ( app 300 acres I think )that had a house on it for sale at 250,000. The lake is deep and clear and has great fishing. 

The interior lakes out in the country are much less expensive than anything near the coast.

[Captain Phil]

My wife has been selling Central Florida lakefront homes and lots for nearly 20 years.  I work with her whenever lake or fisheries questions arise.  I doubt there is a body of water in Florida bigger than a puddle that I haven't fished or boated in.

 

Many retirees come to Florida with the dream of living on the water.  The idea of having your boat on davits in your back yard is common. There are things you should know.  You first need to determine what kind of lake you wish to live on.  Living on a small 300-500 acre lake is perfect for someone who likes solitude. Water quality and fishing is better than in the big lake chains.  There are few water skiers and summer swimmers.  Properties tend to be cheaper, but there is no such thing as a bargain waterfront home in Florida.  That train left the station years ago.  The problem with small lakes is you may quickly become bored.  If you like to cruise or want more options, the bigger lakes are better.  Another thing to think about is the location of the lake and the surroundings nearby.  Will you need access to doctors or hospitals?  How far do you want to travel to talk to a roofer?   Living in the sticks is not for most wives who are used to shopping and restaurants. 

 

There are few large lake chains in Florida that you can build a home on. Okeechobee is surrounded by a dike with locks.  The Kissimmee Chain is surrounded by swamp.  Lake George and the St. John's River are prone to flooding.  This leaves the Harris Chain and the small lakes west of us.  Homes directly on the Harris Chain start around $350K for an old fixer-upper that needs $200K worth of work.  Decent lakefront homes start around $600K and can go to millions.  Canal homes off the main lake with a dock can be found starting around $300K.   Prices are escalating and lake homes sell fast.  In today's market, you will can easily find yourself in a bidding war with a dozen other buyers.  Lake homes come with other issues.  Rebuilding and maintaining a dock or a seawall is expensive.  So is flood insurance.

 

This does not mean you have to be rich or live in a shack to enjoy a lake lifestyle.  Our own home sits on the top of a hill overlooking Lake Eustis.  From our living room, you can see across the lake. The public boat ramp is 2 blocks from our home.  When I used to keep my bass boat at home, I could be in the water in ten minutes.  There are public boat ramps all over the County.

 

I'm too old to launch a boat now, so I keep my boat on a lift in a Marina directly on Little Lake Harris. Many of our friends use an in-and-out storage facility right down the street.  The price we pay for boat dock age is minuscule compared to the cost of buying and maintaining a lakefront home.

 

Over the years, thousands of people have walked through my wife's Real Estate office wishing to buy a home on a lake. Some of them do.  Most of them find less costly more long term beneficial alternatives. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DaubsNU1]

1 hour ago, Captain Phil said:

My wife has been selling Central Florida lakefront homes and lots for nearly 20 years.  I work with her whenever lake or fisheries questions arise.  I doubt there is a body of water in Florida bigger than a puddle that I haven't fished or boated in.

 

Many retirees come to Florida with the dream of living on the water.  The idea of having your boat on davits in your back yard is common. There are things you should know.  You first need to determine what kind of lake you wish to live on.  Living on a small 300-500 acre lake is perfect for someone who likes solitude. Water quality and fishing is better than in the big lake chains.  There are few water skiers and summer swimmers.  Properties tend to be cheaper, but there is no such thing as a bargain waterfront home in Florida.  That train left the station years ago.  The problem with small lakes is you may quickly become bored.  If you like to cruise or want more options, the bigger lakes are better.  Another thing to think about is the location of the lake and the surroundings nearby.  Will you need access to doctors or hospitals?  How far do you want to travel to talk to a roofer?   Living in the sticks is not for most wives who are used to shopping and restaurants. 

 

There are few large lake chains in Florida that you can build a home on. Okeechobee is surrounded by a dike with locks.  The Kissimmee Chain is surrounded by swamp.  Lake George and the St. John's River are prone to flooding.  This leaves the Harris Chain and the small lakes west of us.  Homes directly on the Harris Chain start around $350K for an old fixer-upper that needs $200K worth of work.  Decent lakefront homes start around $600K and can go to millions.  Canal homes off the main lake with a dock can be found starting around $300K.   Prices are escalating and lake homes sell fast.  In today's market, you will can easily find yourself in a bidding war with a dozen other buyers.  Lake homes come with other issues.  Rebuilding and maintaining a dock or a seawall is expensive.  So is flood insurance.

 

This does not mean you have to be rich or live in a shack to enjoy a lake lifestyle.  Our own home sits on the top of a hill overlooking Lake Eustis.  From our living room, you can see across the lake. The public boat ramp is 2 blocks from our home.  When I used to keep my bass boat at home, I could be in the water in ten minutes.  There are public boat ramps all over the County.

 

I'm too old to launch a boat now, so I keep my boat on a lift in a Marina directly on Little Lake Harris. Many of our friends use an in-and-out storage facility right down the street.  The price we pay for boat dock age is minuscule compared to the cost of buying and maintaining a lakefront home.

 

Over the years, thousands of people have walked through my wife's Real Estate office wishing to buy a home on a lake. Some of them do.  Most of them find less costly more long term beneficial alternatives. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great information Phil! Always interesting to hear what life is like in other parts of the country.

 

I can see wanting to live on a lake in Florida...but Nebraska(?)

 

I have two buddies who live on lakes up here...one near the Platte River...house flooded two years ago...18" of water in his basement. The other barely missed getting flooded. My sister has a cabin on a sandpit lake.

 

All are nice, but for the price you pay...I'd rather live on my 3 acres with my 40x30 shop, and trailer my boat to the lake. 

 

 

 

[TOXIC]

4 hours ago, Captain Phil said:

My wife has been selling Central Florida lakefront homes and lots for nearly 20 years.  I work with her whenever lake or fisheries questions arise.  I doubt there is a body of water in Florida bigger than a puddle that I haven't fished or boated in.

 

Many retirees come to Florida with the dream of living on the water.  The idea of having your boat on davits in your back yard is common. There are things you should know.  You first need to determine what kind of lake you wish to live on.  Living on a small 300-500 acre lake is perfect for someone who likes solitude. Water quality and fishing is better than in the big lake chains.  There are few water skiers and summer swimmers.  Properties tend to be cheaper, but there is no such thing as a bargain waterfront home in Florida.  That train left the station years ago.  The problem with small lakes is you may quickly become bored.  If you like to cruise or want more options, the bigger lakes are better.  Another thing to think about is the location of the lake and the surroundings nearby.  Will you need access to doctors or hospitals?  How far do you want to travel to talk to a roofer?   Living in the sticks is not for most wives who are used to shopping and restaurants. 

 

There are few large lake chains in Florida that you can build a home on. Okeechobee is surrounded by a dike with locks.  The Kissimmee Chain is surrounded by swamp.  Lake George and the St. John's River are prone to flooding.  This leaves the Harris Chain and the small lakes west of us.  Homes directly on the Harris Chain start around $350K for an old fixer-upper that needs $200K worth of work.  Decent lakefront homes start around $600K and can go to millions.  Canal homes off the main lake with a dock can be found starting around $300K.   Prices are escalating and lake homes sell fast.  In today's market, you will can easily find yourself in a bidding war with a dozen other buyers.  Lake homes come with other issues.  Rebuilding and maintaining a dock or a seawall is expensive.  So is flood insurance.

 

This does not mean you have to be rich or live in a shack to enjoy a lake lifestyle.  Our own home sits on the top of a hill overlooking Lake Eustis.  From our living room, you can see across the lake. The public boat ramp is 2 blocks from our home.  When I used to keep my bass boat at home, I could be in the water in ten minutes.  There are public boat ramps all over the County.

 

I'm too old to launch a boat now, so I keep my boat on a lift in a Marina directly on Little Lake Harris. Many of our friends use an in-and-out storage facility right down the street.  The price we pay for boat dock age is minuscule compared to the cost of buying and maintaining a lakefront home.

 

Over the years, thousands of people have walked through my wife's Real Estate office wishing to buy a home on a lake. Some of them do.  Most of them find less costly more long term beneficial alternatives. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Exactly what I have learned.  I’m no novice when it comes to buying real estate.  I bought my first home in Omaha, Nebraska sold it when I was transferred to Kansas City, sold that one when I was transferred to the Boston area and then sold that one when I got transferred to northern va/ DC area and made good profits every time.  I have sniffed out some pretty unique properties every time and will do the same if Florida is our next move.  I have the time to ferret out another deal once we decide exactly where we want to be.  

[avid]

Eastern TN is a perfect locale for an angler 

Excellent bass fishing and close to some delicious looking trout streams 

Good luck?

[Espo66]

On 3/12/2021 at 1:59 PM, Captain Phil said:

My wife has been selling Central Florida lakefront homes and lots for nearly 20 years.  I work with her whenever lake or fisheries questions arise.  I doubt there is a body of water in Florida bigger than a puddle that I haven't fished or boated in.

 

Many retirees come to Florida with the dream of living on the water.  The idea of having your boat on davits in your back yard is common. There are things you should know.  You first need to determine what kind of lake you wish to live on.  Living on a small 300-500 acre lake is perfect for someone who likes solitude. Water quality and fishing is better than in the big lake chains.  There are few water skiers and summer swimmers.  Properties tend to be cheaper, but there is no such thing as a bargain waterfront home in Florida.  That train left the station years ago.  The problem with small lakes is you may quickly become bored.  If you like to cruise or want more options, the bigger lakes are better.  Another thing to think about is the location of the lake and the surroundings nearby.  Will you need access to doctors or hospitals?  How far do you want to travel to talk to a roofer?   Living in the sticks is not for most wives who are used to shopping and restaurants. 

 

There are few large lake chains in Florida that you can build a home on. Okeechobee is surrounded by a dike with locks.  The Kissimmee Chain is surrounded by swamp.  Lake George and the St. John's River are prone to flooding.  This leaves the Harris Chain and the small lakes west of us.  Homes directly on the Harris Chain start around $350K for an old fixer-upper that needs $200K worth of work.  Decent lakefront homes start around $600K and can go to millions.  Canal homes off the main lake with a dock can be found starting around $300K.   Prices are escalating and lake homes sell fast.  In today's market, you will can easily find yourself in a bidding war with a dozen other buyers.  Lake homes come with other issues.  Rebuilding and maintaining a dock or a seawall is expensive.  So is flood insurance.

 

This does not mean you have to be rich or live in a shack to enjoy a lake lifestyle.  Our own home sits on the top of a hill overlooking Lake Eustis.  From our living room, you can see across the lake. The public boat ramp is 2 blocks from our home.  When I used to keep my bass boat at home, I could be in the water in ten minutes.  There are public boat ramps all over the County.

 

I'm too old to launch a boat now, so I keep my boat on a lift in a Marina directly on Little Lake Harris. Many of our friends use an in-and-out storage facility right down the street.  The price we pay for boat dock age is minuscule compared to the cost of buying and maintaining a lakefront home.

 

Over the years, thousands of people have walked through my wife's Real Estate office wishing to buy a home on a lake. Some of them do.  Most of them find less costly more long term beneficial alternatives. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Captain Phil, Thank you for your well thought out and VERY informative post.

 

I wanted a big enough lake so that I wouldn't get bored, but these southern lakes are gargantuan compared to what we have in CT.  The largest lake in CT is Candlewood at about 5500 acres. Trouble is, it is crowded with recreational boaters, like you said...I guess we can't have our cake and eat it too.

I think I would choose the solitude over the size.

 

You have got me thinking about "close to" the lake. Something I am toying with up here. I live 10 minutes from Long Island Sound, even though I am not a saltwater guy, I could be.  I thought about renting a slip at the marina, I think it is like 12/foot per month. Maybe that would be the way to go down south, $200-300 a month would take a long time to equal the +150K premium paid to live right on the waterfront.

[TnRiver46]

23 minutes ago, Espo66 said:

Captain Phil, Thank you for your well thought out and VERY informative post.

 

I wanted a big enough lake so that I wouldn't get bored, but these southern lakes are gargantuan compared to what we have in CT.  The largest lake in CT is Candlewood at about 5500 acres. Trouble is, it is crowded with recreational boaters, like you said...I guess we can't have our cake and eat it too.

I think I would choose the solitude over the size.

 

You have got me thinking about "close to" the lake. Something I am toying with up here. I live 10 minutes from Long Island Sound, even though I am not a saltwater guy, I could be.  I thought about renting a slip at the marina, I think it is like 12/foot per month. Maybe that would be the way to go down south, $200-300 a month would take a long time to equal the +150K premium paid to live right on the waterfront.

I’ve got a dock you can tie up to! I don’t think you’ll like it though, the hike is treacherous!!! We’ve had a few people tie up over the years at a discounted rate and I believe they eventually opted for the marina with easy parking and walk after a season or two. Here’s the view from the house down to the water 

and from the dock back up the hill 

 

[Espo66]

Nice...I will need to quite smoking! 

 

I've seen a few houses with a similar slope to the lake. I would be the type to buy an ATV to traverse.

 

 

 

[throttleplate]

56 minutes ago, Espo66 said:

Nice...I will need to quite smoking! 

 

I've seen a few houses with a similar slope to the lake. I would be the type to buy an ATV to traverse.

 

 

 

needs to have steps put in. Alot of the remaining shoreline for sale here in minn is of the drop off from the yard and steep bank variety as all the prime real estate has allready been bought and developed.

 

Sister has a deep drop lake property and they built steps to get down to the dock. To get the docks and boat ramp out a electric winch from a 4x4 is used.

[Captain Phil]

3 hours ago, Espo66 said:

I thought about renting a slip at the marina, I think it is like 12/foot per month. Maybe that would be the way to go down south, $200-300 a month would take a long time to equal the +150K premium paid to live right on the waterfront.

I pay $175 a month to dock my 18' Pontoon boat.  My dock has a cover, water, electric and a lift.  Dockage is sometimes hard to find.  They may have a waiting list.  Docking your boat is great as long as you like the lake you are on.  Little Lake Harris has always been one of my favorites, so I'm happy.  When you retire, all kinds of things can happen that are unexpected. I just had back surgery.  I'm recovering well, but you never know how things will go.  It's much easier to change docks or boats than an expensive house.

[TnRiver46]

19 hours ago, Espo66 said:

Nice...I will need to quite smoking! 

 

I've seen a few houses with a similar slope to the lake. I would be the type to buy an ATV to traverse.

 

 

 

Our previous tenant had a golf cart with mud tires and a 4 wheeler 

 

I usually just walk down there with a deep cycle battery in one hand, 5 gallons of gas in the other, and bust my butt rolling on those dry river rocks 

 

[Glenn]

On 3/12/2021 at 8:33 AM, MN Fisher said:

As of 2021, seven states — Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington, and Wyoming — levy no state income tax.

 

Be careful about that. It doesn't mean a lost cost-of-living. WA has horrendously high taxes on just about everything but no ability to figure out how to spend it right.  The 3rd highest gas tax but the worst roads in the country, for example.  And then they pile levies on top of it.

 

They built the 5th most expensive high school in the country, when the could have built several with the same funds....and then they asked for even more $$.

 

Taxes can suck up your retirement funds without providing any significant benefits.  So research thoroughly.

[DanielG]

I live in Maine on the ME/NH border. Maine has taxes, NH doesn't. But, the property taxes in NH are almost what my other taxes are here in Maine. I have relatives there. A $3000 tax bill here is about $7000 there. You've got to pay for the schools somehow. Think about it. No taxes, where does the money come from? Here, people who have high income jobs live and work in NH and pay no state income tax but put up with the property taxes. When they retire they move to a state like Maine where they now have lower property taxes. May not be the same everywhere but it is here in New England. In the end they get you....Sort of evens out.

 

BTW, I am retired, and worked in Maine. But I was a teacher so my income wasn't high enough for taxes to matter much. I live on a lake. Any waterfront property the taxes have an automatic different standard. About 40% more. Either ocean, lake, or river frontage. Live across the street and it's like everyone else.