Is winning co-angler usually with winning boater?

[mheichelbech]

Didn't know if anyone knew what the trend was on this...if the winning co-angler in tournaments is usually the one who fished with the winning or top 10 or so boater in tournaments.  It would seem like the logical thing but of course with humans and fishing things are often not logical at all.

 

Thanks for any experienced input on this.

[J Francho]

The term co-angler usually means team format, in which case yes, both would be the winning boat.  But in case where the non-boaters and boaters compete separately, it isn't always the case.  Simply put, sometimes, and sometimes not has been my observation.

[Bassattackr]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

The term co-angler usually means team format, in which case yes, both would be the winning boat.  

 

FLW has called non-boater in the draw format "co-angler" for years.  For the OPs question - IMO, not necessarily.  About 10 years ago, I won a 2 day BFL as a co-angler and brought in over 15 lbs the first day, the angler/pro only had 1 small keeper.   

 

Some boaters/pros are excellent fisherman, vacuums of sorts.. and are tough to fish behind.   The best of the best (Top 10-15%) were in my experience.  The low end of the pro division (Bottom 10-15%) may not be on fish at all and may be tough for either angler to be successful.    The middle 75% +/- main field can usually find or be around fish but may not be as skilled, giving the co-angler a great opportunity.

 

Now that I've made the change to the front a few years ago, I'm probably in that middle 75% most of the time.  Some cos have done fairly well behind me..  Others not so much.

[J Francho]

10 minutes ago, Bassattackr said:

FLW has called non-boater in the draw format "co-angler" for years.

I'm on a mission in life to get everyone to use the proper term.  There is nothing "co" in a draw format.

11 minutes ago, Bassattackr said:

About 10 years ago, I won a 2 day BFL as a co-angler and brought in over 15 lbs the first day, the angler/pro only had 1 small keeper.

Nice job, man.  That isn't easy.

[mheichelbech]

On 3/10/2021 at 3:20 PM, J Francho said:

I'm on a mission in life to get everyone to use the proper term.  There is nothing "co" in a draw format.

Nice job, man.  That isn't easy.

Whatever it’s called or should be called, it’s not the team formats I am talking about, it is where you are paired with a boater and must fish in the back half of the boat all day and you are competing against others that are fishing as non-boaters/co-anglers.  I agree the co- angler terminology is confusing and to me at least, and somewhat impliesva partnership or team format with the boater.  Going forward I will use the term non-boater.

 

So yeah, another way to put my question is how much does non- boater success depend on the boater?  I would say almost 100% because of the boater doesn’t get in fish then the non-boater has no chance whatsoever.

[J Francho]

I would agree, all of the potential success depends on the boater getting on fish. 

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, mheichelbech said:

 

So yeah, another way to put my question is how much does non- boater success depend on the boater?  I would say almost 100% because of the boater doesn’t get in fish then the non-boater has no chance whatsoever.

 

You used to be able to look this up and pull reasonable data from the FLW website before MLF bought them out and revamped everything. From what I recall, winning boater and co-angler (from the same boat) was a rarity. It was just as likely, if not more so, that the winning co-angler smoked his boater for the day. That brings up the question of how do you define “on fish.” With FFS quickly becoming the  norm, things will probably change again, and most winners from the back of the boat will come from bank beater boats or guys w/o FFS - but that’s just a guess.

[mheichelbech]

1 hour ago, Team9nine said:

 

You used to be able to look this up and pull reasonable data from the FLW website before MLF bought them out and revamped everything. From what I recall, winning boater and co-angler (from the same boat) was a rarity. It was just as likely, if not more so, that the winning co-angler smoked his boater for the day. That brings up the question of how do you define “on fish.” With FFS quickly becoming the  norm, things will probably change again, and most winners from the back of the boat will come from bank beater boats or guys w/o FFS - but that’s just a guess.

What is FFS?

[J Francho]

Forward Facing Sonar.

[Team9nine]

23 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Forward Facing Sonar.

 

[WRB]

The only format I can think of is shared weight AAA in Opens where both anglers help each other like a team event. The shared weight format changes partners each day new pro and AAA angler, luck of the draw. The winning amateur is often coupled with the winning pro.

For the amateur or back seater to do good the pro needs to be fishing water they both have good skills with the presentations. It’s hard to be catching bass if the boater is moving too fast or slow or depth/cover for your skill set.

Tom 

[TOXIC]

Hmmmmm.......another term you need to learn is being “back boated”.  Some “Pro’s” are more skilled at keeping you off fish from the back of the boat than they are at catching fish.  Major cause of hard feelings at a lot of TX.

[Bluebasser86]

8 hours ago, TOXIC said:

Hmmmmm.......another term you need to learn is being “back boated”.  Some “Pro’s” are more skilled at keeping you off fish from the back of the boat than they are at catching fish.  Major cause of hard feelings at a lot of TX.

Intentionally keeping the backseater off fish is against the rules in a lot of the tournaments I've fished. I've seen a couple grievances filed and won by backseaters over it. I think a lot of it would be avoided by guys just communicating with each other. I always understood the boater got first dibs on the best water, but I always talked to my boater also. Everyone has their own quirks and pet peeves. If they're put out there and understood at the start of the day, then I didn't have to worry about unintentionally irritating my boater all day. I didn't expect to be catered to, but backseaters pay entry fees just the same and deserve a shot at catching fish. Thankfully, I never had a real bad experience but I've heard some horror stories. Seems like there's always some details left out that come out later where both sides made the situation worse though. 

 

I won several tournaments as a backseater when I was club fishing, my boater never placed well in those tournaments. My boater won several also, I never did well in those tournaments.

[TnRiver46]

On 3/15/2021 at 4:16 PM, TOXIC said:

Hmmmmm.......another term you need to learn is being “back boated”.  Some “Pro’s” are more skilled at keeping you off fish from the back of the boat than they are at catching fish.  Major cause of hard feelings at a lot of TX.

That and the terrifying boat rides are what keep me out of tourneys

[Bassattackr]

On 3/10/2021 at 2:20 PM, J Francho said:

I'm on a mission in life to get everyone to use the proper term.  There is nothing "co" in a draw format.

 

Haha fair enough..

[dickenscpa]

On 3/16/2021 at 8:11 PM, TnRiver46 said:

That and the terrifying boat rides are what keep me out of tourneys

I'm TERRIFIED of speed on the water. I've been a bass boat owner since I was 16 (49 now) and I sold my boat and got heavy into kayak bass fishing.

 

I've only fished as a co-angler once and it was a two day tournament. This was a long time ago and for the life of me I can't remember the trail name. I want to say before it was Toyota it was Costa and I fished it before it was called Costa, but I could be wrong. My boater on day two wrecked and almost killed us so it's a blur.

 

Anyway I posted to say that my boater was a different guy on day 1 & 2. So in that tourney we didn't fish with the same guy both days.

[Captain Phil]

Over the years I grew tired of fighting the front end back end tournament wars.  If the man in the front wishes to, he can front end you all day.  This is very common in club tournaments where egos override courtesy. Winning a tournament under these conditions is nearly impossible.  For that reason I switched to team tournaments almost exclusively.  On occasion I would fish Federation Tournaments as a non boater to help someone gain an entry.  In those tournaments I felt I was fishing against the man in the front not the whole field.  To me, there is nothing better than beating a local hot shot out of the back of his own boat.

 

To answer your question, it is very common for the winning nonboater to win out of the winners boat.  Finding fish is often more significant than skill.  This is not always true, but it is more times than not. Being a non boater is a learning experience.  Don't think about winning, think about learning all you can.

[BassNJake]

It's like every other fishing question: sometimes it does, sometimes it does not.

At the BFL level, a lot of guys can afford to fish as a boater.

Some of these guys would have probably been better off fishing as a co angler first/or longer.

Some of the most satisfying days are when you as the co angler outfish the boater.

 

Fishing as a co angler is a specific skill set.

Not only do you have to try and figure out the fish, you also have to figure out the best way to fish behind your Pro/Boater. The cream rises to the top saying is very appropriate in tournament fishing.

 

https://www.bassmaster.com/news/co-angler-s-hot-streak

[billmac]

Related question:  How common is it for a non-boater to actually "win" the tournament?  By that I mean the non-boater actually out-fishing the field of boaters.  I know they probably can't "win" because they are separate categories, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it at least once on a BassResource report.

[TOXIC]

1 hour ago, billmac said:

Related question:  How common is it for a non-boater to actually "win" the tournament?  By that I mean the non-boater actually out-fishing the field of boaters.  I know they probably can't "win" because they are separate categories, but I'm pretty sure I've seen it at least once on a BassResource report.

Depending on the trail, some of the co’s are limited to 3 fish.  

[mheichelbech]

1 hour ago, TOXIC said:

Depending on the trail, some of the co’s are limited to 3 fish.  

In the tournament I was in Sunday, the a non- boater had over 17 pounds while his boater had 0.  I think he may have top weight or close to it for the tournament as well as big bass.  He caught 4 fish total.  My understanding is they camped on an area all day and the 4 fish were spread throughout the day.

[billmac]

7 hours ago, TOXIC said:

Depending on the trail, some of the co’s are limited to 3 fish.  

What's the logic there?

[TOXIC]

11 hours ago, billmac said:

What's the logic there?

I’m not sure since I quit tournaments a few years ago.

[J Francho]

Live well space.

[billmac]

26 minutes ago, J Francho said:

Live well space.

That makes sense, with the added bonus that the non-boater is less likely to embarrass the boater by bringing in more weight.