Sheesh, Kistler Heliums pop way up to $400

[jbsoonerfan]

4 minutes ago, Michigander said:

I would totally buy an Amish rod. 

I've seen what their furniture and quilts go for, $400 seems like it probably wouldn't buy an Amish Loomis.

[Michigander]

Just now, jbsoonerfan said:

I've seen what their furniture and quilts go for, $400 seems like it probably wouldn't buy an Amish Loomis.

I don't disagree with that! An Amish Loomis would be a real hit to my wallet.

[waymont]

37 minutes ago, Michigander said:

It was a vague label even before. Were the guides US made? The cork handles, reel seat, trim components, hook keeper, the thread? I think assembled is US (or Texas) is fine, and probably more accurate overall.

I would totally buy an Amish rod. 

They grow a nice chicken!

[Dens228]

1 hour ago, waymont said:

Yeah, jt all seems like busy work right? "Keep looking for a my big sale." But raising the prices this much kind of makes the sales a moot point.

Raise base prices, have a sale that lowers it to the previous base price, make more than before, people still  think they get a deal.  

[waymont]

So if the blanks are the same in the Helium and Z-Bone line, but the guides are the only difference the Z-Bone is $150 more? I know the guides cost more, but come on.

5 minutes ago, Dens228 said:

Raise base prices, have a sale that lowers it to the previous base price, make more than before, people still  think they get a deal.  

Totally what is so bogus about it.

[Sphynx]

How does the price keep rising? Simplest thing ever, because people keep paying what they ask, it's economics 101, as to made in America, that doesn't really mean what it used to mean, from the mid 40's on we were the only industrialized nation to have escaped unscathed from the wanton destruction of the second world War, there were some fairly obvious manufacturing advantages we realized as a result, as places that are less expensive to manufacture things in gain experience running factories, the quality gap continues to narrow, you see it in all sorts of products from cars to guitars to everything in between, now I'd certainly never knock somebody for buying American, to each his own, but if Kistler found a way to provide a rod that is just as sensitive, well built, and durable and managed to cut the cost to themselves and convince people to voluntarily pay more for it, good for them, that's a great way to conduct business, if someone feels that better deals are available elsewhere, the beauty of this country is you are free to purchase from another retailer with no explanation required, I personally see no advantage to buying a rod at over twice the cost of what I currently use, and my rods are made out of the US, they are sensitive, have been durable, and I feel that I paid a fair price, what St. Croix spent to assemble/import them is none of my business, I hope they made a nice profit on the transaction, I like the work they do and am happy I was able to support them in my own little way. 

[waymont]

42 minutes ago, Sphynx said:

How does the price keep rising? Simplest thing ever, because people keep paying what they ask

Unless people realize it’s not worth it, and stop buying. These rods just seem like such a rip off. 

if any other rod company raised their prices on a line of rods $100 in around a year it would be just as ridiculous to me.

[Dwight Hottle]

10 hours ago, waymont said:

I don't think the blanks are USA made either, but the company seems to be avoiding saying who or where the blanks are manufactured. Why? Who knows. If they are being made in China they might not want to advertise that. Even though Exprides, and Zodias rods are made in China, they are beautiful rods. Kistler seems to have a weird vibe.

 

From Kistler website the blanks are 100% Japanese Carbon by Toray. They could be sourced from Japan, China or Malaysia. 

 

LIGHTER THAN AIR. THE WAY FISHING SHOULD FEEL.

2021 HELIUM FISHING ROD

We stripped weight to increase sensitivity. Average only 3.5 ounce! It's what gives the Helium its name.

Our flagship rod at its core doesn't just "get the job done," but makes every cast and hook set feel effortless.

When your mettle is tested and you're competing for #1, the Helium gives you all you want and need in a fishing rod: lighter than air responsiveness that gives you every advantage over the next best fisherman.

Built on KISTLER KC9 Extremely High Modulus Blanks - 100% Japanese Carbon by Toray.

A dental surgeon requires a fine instrument to do his delicate work, the Helium blank is a fine instrument, meant for the most delicate of bites. A surgeon does not use his fine instrument to chisel, hammer or pull teeth, he uses a different tool for that.

Metallic blue on navy blue thread colors. Bold in its simplicity, our most popular rod to-date makes the Helium a stunning example of how peak performance and beautiful design really does define the way fishing should feel.

 

Every rod is Built by hand in Texas. All built, wrapped, glued, and epoxied by our team in our Magnolia, Texas facility. Backed by the Trey Kistler Warranty Promise for Five Years. First year = Free replacement. Second, Third, Fourth, and Fifth year = Prorated replacement.

DEFINING TRAITS

LIGHTER THAN AIR

 

We're talking 3.5 oz light. It’s where the Helium rod gets its name. It’s what it feels like fishing with the Helium.

 

Sleek tapered grade a cork handle, corrosion control stainless steel guides, and a fuji reel seat each cut weight and give power and sensitivity to the helium.

 

We hear this all the time: “Light and sensitive... With plenty of backbone.” It’s what you get with Helium.

BLANK

 

Kistler KC9 Extremely High Modulus Blanks - 100% Japanese Carbon by Toray

 

A high-modulus 100% Carbon blank with advanced 45 degree layered carbon. Backed by Kistler's 5-Year Bend Strong Warranty, and specially hand tested for optimal performance.

 

Armor-plated resin gives it a bit of extra protection and character.

[Sphynx]

17 minutes ago, waymont said:

Unless people realize it’s not worth it, and stop buying. These rods just seem like such a rip off. 

if any other rod company raised their prices on a line of rods $100 in around a year it would be just as ridiculous to me.

This is exactly why it's called a FREE market, nobody is forced to purchase a rod from them, or from Shimano, or St. Croix or anyone else either, perhaps to others they are offering a great deal on a rod, or perhaps people feel the price is justified on account of previous satisfaction with customer service when they were needed, the only control any of us have is over our own purchase decisions, I find the price of a Shimano Curado to be acceptable, other people say that's too much money and not enough value, both of us are correct, now the day I start making purchasing decisions for someone else that's the day outside opinions matter, but if someone here wanted to purchase a solid gold reel mounted on a diamond coated rod using spider silk line, I'd be perfectly happy for them as long as they considered the value received to be worth the price that was paid, I have exactly no right to make financial decisions for another person whose situation I am unfamiliar with, there is also the very real possibility that Kistler had to raise prices to ensure that they could continue to keep rods in stock, when they have a price hike on their end, you'll get that passed to some degree to the consumer, businesses work for profit, not for charity, since I can't be sure what they are paying for materials and shipping costs, I can't judge them for a price charged, all I can do is look at the product, and decide for myself whether the price is in line with the value to me of the product offered, and to let others make that decision for themselves, they are grown folk perfectly capable of making such a decision without me or anyone else holding their hands.

[rangerjockey]

2 hours ago, waymont said:

So if the blanks are the same in the Helium and Z-Bone line, but the guides are the only difference the Z-Bone is $150 more? I know the guides cost more, but come on.

Totally what is so bogus about it.

You don't like Kistler Everybody gets it.  Have you priced Torzites lately ? They are on the Xtasy and Conquest what do they cost ?

[Michigander]

7 minutes ago, rangerjockey said:

Have you priced Torzites lately ? They are on the Xtasy and Conquest what do they cost ?

Way more than I'm willing to pay, lol. I'm sure the rod companies get a wholesaler bulk discount but when I look at the Torzites for a personal rod build, it's too much for me. If they would actually be worth the cost to me for my fishing then I think ignorance is bliss. ?

[Sphynx]

17 minutes ago, Michigander said:

Way more than I'm willing to pay, lol. I'm sure the rod companies get a wholesaler bulk discount but when I look at the Torzites for a personal rod build, it's too much for me. If they would actually be worth the cost to me for my fishing then I think ignorance is bliss. ?

I don't know jack about rod building, other than in theory you should save a significant amount of money building your own, and you get to build one exactly to your specifications as long as you have the skill to do it, it a unique material or is rod building basically the same process regardless of blank material? 

[PhishLI]

For anyone upset about the price, or rising price, of a handcrafted specialty luxury item, stop and think. Look up what's considered a small business. One primary and a few workers doesn't qualify as one. It's microscopic. There is no economy of scale. Things take time. Workers get paid. The manufacturer risks everything, pays fed, state, disability and family leave, unemployment, accountants, and whatever else they come up with for every dollar earned. Heat, A/C, water, carting, packaging, and on and on.

 

If you don't want to pay the asking price, then don't. Build it yourself or buy something else. Discouraging strangers on an online forum from buying from a tiny business that's taking all the risk while you take none isn't nice and it isn't necessary.

 

I don't own a single Kistler anything. Being in the same boat, generally, makes me wonder how I'd feel if some anonymous internet personality was gunning for me simply for trying to keep the lights on and not because I'd actually done anything wrong.

[Michigander]

41 minutes ago, Sphynx said:

I don't know jack about rod building, other than in theory you should save a significant amount of money building your own, and you get to build one exactly to your specifications as long as you have the skill to do it, it a unique material or is rod building basically the same process regardless of blank material? 

I'm no expert by any stretch, I've researched a lot and picked the brains of some experienced builders but have only built five so far. I haven't used them yet other than casting a little in the snow and on the street. So far I'm really pleased with what I have done as they are very comfortable to use, for me. Someone else might pick it up and hate it.

 

Like I said, the rod companies are going to get special pricing that I, as a hobbyist, can't but for example if I wanted to build a Helium on the NFC blank at full MSRP instead of shopping the sales, I'm looking at $300+ for the blank after tax and shipping, plus another $100+ for the Torzite guide train. So we're over $400 before even getting to the rest of the parts like handle and reel seat.

 

The process to put the rod together is basically the same each time as long as you aren't doing complex decorative work. It isn't rocket science but the people who are really good at it just have a lot of experience, skill, and knowledge to draw on to make a great rod. Lots of tiny expert adjustments have a more than cumulative effect, in my opinion. I aspire to be some day considered "pretty good". ?

 

Much of rod building is opinion and preference so you get a lot of conflicting information, much of which is true, lol.

[DogBone_384]

5 hours ago, BaitFinesse said:

Looks like a sub $50 rod.  How these companies keep getting away with it I'll never know.  

Have you ever fished one?

 

I like them and generally buy them when on sale.

 

I use their ‘20 KLX 6’9” MF casing rod for jerkbaits and wanted a spinning version for winter fishing.  Kistler doesn’t have an “off the shelf” version so I had one made for little more than the casting version.  
 

Yes, Kistler rods are expensive, but like other members already said, it’s a free market and everyone can make their own choices.

 

I wish Kistler good luck. The more American companies stay in business, the better.

[Sphynx]

10 minutes ago, Michigander said:

I'm no expert by any stretch, I've researched a lot and picked the brains of some experienced builders but have only built five so far. I haven't used them yet other than casting a little in the snow and on the street. So far I'm really pleased with what I have done as they are very comfortable to use, for me. Someone else might pick it up and hate it.

 

Like I said, the rod companies are going to get special pricing that I, as a hobbyist, can't but for example if I wanted to build a Helium on the NFC blank at full MSRP instead of shopping the sales, I'm looking at $300+ for the blank after tax and shipping, plus another $100+ for the Torzite guide train. So we're over $400 before even getting to the rest of the parts like handle and reel seat.

 

The process to put the rod together is basically the same each time as long as you aren't doing complex decorative work. It isn't rocket science but the people who are really good at it just have a lot of experience, skill, and knowledge to draw on to make a great rod. Lots of tiny expert adjustments have a more than cumulative effect, in my opinion.

 

Much of rod building is opinion and preference so you get a lot of conflicting information, most of which is true, lol.

And there you have it folks, these guys are paying all the associated business costs and STILL offering a price around or below that which an individual could reasonably be expected to pay to build it themselves, I'd hardly call that a scalping, it would be one thing if Kistler was out selling rods that broke all the time with a warranty they refused to honor, that rightly deserves public criticism, but from what I have heard that is not the case, @PhishLI is dead on, you think running a miniscule business is so easy that it's worth taking the time to knock them, try it, put your life savings on the line for an idea and see how much sleep you get at night, knowing that the employees you hired are all depending on you to provide them with a fair wage, benefits, a future, and then once you've done all that remember that your the last guy to get paid, AFTER everything and everyone else has been paid, and if there isn't any money left over after literally everyone else has been paid? Too bad, that's your own problem, I don't own any of this companies products, but I applaud them for offering a product for some very dedicated and often highly opinionated customers to vote yea or nay on with the money they work hard to earn, it's a gutsy thing to do, I hope they experience every success they earn.

[Paul Roberts]

I own two, I bought at end of year clearance. I considered those expensive. One is... 10yrs old or more. I can't imagine a rod having to be any lighter or more sensitive.

[DogBone_384]

10 minutes ago, BaitFinesse said:

I've not heard good things.

I hope you get the chance to fish one.  
 

My everyday is a 7’ MH/F KLX with a Revo MGX on it that weighs in around 10 ounces - spooled.
 

Fishing rod ‘feel’ is very subjective, I find them very light and sensitive.  Their fit & finish is excellent, but if you’re looking for flashy, they are not that.

 

Best of luck fishing this year.

[rangerjockey]

9 minutes ago, BaitFinesse said:

I've not heard good things.

So, no first hand knowledge .

 

 

[Michigander]

21 minutes ago, DogBone_384 said:

My everyday is a 7’ MH/F KLX with a Revo MGX on it that weighs in around 10 ounces - spooled.

Very nice! I appreciate lightweight gear a lot on those many thousand cast days.

[waymont]

2 hours ago, rangerjockey said:

You don't like Kistler Everybody gets it.  Have you priced Torzites lately ? They are on the Xtasy and Conquest what do they cost ?

I did check them. A set Titanium frame and torzite for a 7' rod costs $93 at Mudhole. I would guess a rod company gets them cheaper. My point is if any company raised their prices this much ($100) in about one years time it would seem wrong to me. 

[optimator]

Here's my only experience with Kistler.

 

A few weeks ago I ordered a 2020 KLX on clearance for $219. I immediately wished I had went with the Helium. I sent an email right after ordering asking them if I needed to call in to authorize the additional cost. I woke up the next morning to a reply telling me they would upgrade me at no charge and the rod was shipping the same day. I can't complain about any of this. A 2020 TFO blank Helium for $219 was a steal in my eyes. 

[Sphynx]

4 minutes ago, waymont said:

I did check them. A set Titanium frame and torzite for a 7' rod costs $93 at Mudhole. I would guess a rod company gets them cheaper. My point is if any company raised their prices this much ($100) in about one years time it would seem wrong to me. 

Even if they had the price of the materials rise on them? Sounds like an arbitrary and baseless reason to find fault, I'm going to guess that you don't manage a small business given your viewpoint, so I'll tell you that in my small business, anything approaching a forecast for prices since the COVID thing hit has been worthless, things that used to be readily available are gone, and when they are available they cost a ton, these are hardly "normal" market conditions and to treat them as such is really pretty silly.

[rangerjockey]

1 hour ago, waymont said:

I did check them. A set Titanium frame and torzite for a 7' rod costs $93 at Mudhole. I would guess a rod company gets them cheaper. My point is if any company raised their prices this much ($100) in about one years time it would seem wrong to me. 

If your so put off by the price increase then don't buy one.  Hell , Loomis had a price increase as well.

 You act like they should open the books for you to decide what they should charge for the rod.

 

[waymont]

I agree these aren’t normal market times. I don’t operate a small business. I am curious to see if any other small rod company like ALX, Ark,cashion, Phenix, Powell will raise their prices this much?  Example: raise a $200 rod to a $300 price, or a $300 to a $400 rod? My point is Kistler seems to be raising prices at a very high rate.