Spool size and IPT

[Rodney Smith]

I have several Metanium 2020’s (USDM). I just ordered a JDM version with a 70 size spool. I have one Antares that has a 70 size spool. It casts further than anything I own. I use braid that is .009 in diameter. My question is, what happens to IPT with the 70 size spool compared to the larger size? Perhaps WRB can weigh in...

[Fishes in trees]

I don't know, not that kind of math guy, however I can't imagine that while fishing it would make all that much of a difference.

[Team9nine]

The actual size of the spool is largely irrelevant. What ultimately matters is the final outside diameter of the line when fully filled. If that doesn’t change, then neither does IPT. Shallower spools have less overall line mass due to decreased line capacity, so casting might be affected, but not IPT.

[Deleted account]

53 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

The actual size of the spool is largely irrelevant.

Respectfully disagree. The dimensions of the spool all directly or indirectly affect both the rated IPT, as well as the rate of change of IPT at a given distance, and per length of line change due to the diameter and capacity.

[MN Fisher]

16 minutes ago, BassWhole! said:

Respectfully disagree. The dimensions of the spool all directly or indirectly affect both the rated IPT, as well as the rate of change of IPT at a given distance, and per length of line change due to the diameter and capacity.

Agree here - a wide spool will lose IPT slower than a narrow spool - more line per layer, less diameter lost per yard of line out.

[Deleted account]

Just now, MN Fisher said:

Agree here - a wide spool will lose IPT slower than a narrow spool - more line per layer, less diameter lost per yard of line out.

Yup, and more so with larger diameter lines.

[garroyo130]

Im with @Team9nine on this one. While the spool portion the line lays on will vary in diameter, the ends of the spool typically do not vary much if any. Proof of this is that many reels will share the same body with only the spool changing. Therefore, filling a narrow spool within 1/8" of the lip of the spool and filling a wide spool within 1/8" of the lip of the spool will yield roughly the same overall diameter. 

[Deleted account]

2 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

Im with @Team9nine on this one. While the spool portion the line lays on will vary in diameter, the ends of the spool typically do not vary much if any. Proof of this is that many reels will share the same body with only the spool changing. Therefore, filling a narrow spool within 1/8" of the lip of the spool and filling a wide spool within 1/8" of the lip of the spool will yield roughly the same overall diameter. 

Yes, the effective diameter as filled will determine the IPT when the spool is full, but a narrow spool will have a much lower IPT as the amount of line out increases, and it's not linear, so the more of the spool capacity you cast the larger the difference.

 

[CFDoc]

6 hours ago, Rodney Smith said:

I have several Metanium 2020’s (USDM). I just ordered a JDM version with a 70 size spool. I have one Antares that has a 70 size spool. It casts further than anything I own. I use braid that is .009 in diameter. My question is, what happens to IPT with the 70 size spool compared to the larger size? Perhaps WRB can weigh in...

I wouldn’t worry about it. The math is actually pretty straightforward. The inches in a turn is just pi * diameter * gear ratio. The diameter being the only variable that changes as line gets added/subtracted from the spool.

 

But in your case, I have both USDM and JDM spool Mets. The ipt change is not discernible. The casting capabilities; however, are significantly different.

[Team9nine]

50 minutes ago, BassWhole! said:

Respectfully disagree. The dimensions of the spool all directly or indirectly affect both the rated IPT, as well as the rate of change of IPT at a given distance, and per length of line change due to the diameter and capacity.

 

The circumference of any given sized circle/cyclinder is a constant for a set diameter regardless of what size the axle is. Simple physics. It's a whole different argument if you want to start creating theoretical IPTs based on making some long cast of distance 'X' and only having 'Y' line left on the spool, but he didn't specifically allude to that in his post/question. 

 

31 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

Agree here - a wide spool will lose IPT slower than a narrow spool - more line per layer, less diameter lost per yard of line out.

 

Agreed -  but he didn't specifcally refer to that aspect in his question, though it may or may not have been what he was getting at. See my above comment/reply.

 

27 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

Im with @Team9nine on this one. While the spool portion the line lays on will vary in diameter, the ends of the spool typically do not vary much if any. Proof of this is that many reels will share the same body with only the spool changing. Therefore, filling a narrow spool within 1/8" of the lip of the spool and filling a wide spool within 1/8" of the lip of the spool will yield roughly the same overall diameter. 

 

Exactly, which was my point and what I thought he was asking 

 

22 minutes ago, BassWhole! said:

Yes, the effective diameter as filled will determine the IPT when the spool is full, but a narrow spool will have a much lower IPT as the amount of line out increases, and it's not linear, so the more of the spool capacity you cast the larger the difference.

 

 

Discussed above - maybe the OP should clarify exactly what he is trying to figure out for all our sakes...

[Deleted account]

His question is:

what happens to IPT with the 70 size spool compared to the larger size?"

 

I'm good where I am.

[Team9nine]

17 minutes ago, BassWhole! said:

His question is:

what happens to IPT with the 70 size spool compared to the larger size?"

 

I'm good where I am.

 

Me too, then 

[Deleted account]

18 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

 

Me too, then 

Then No! Slide rulers at 20 paces....  

[MN Fisher]

Just now, BassWhole! said:

Then No! Slide rulers at 20 paces....  

Long as I have my backup micrometer - sure.

[Rodney Smith]

To clarify my question, if both the 70 and 100 size reels make the the same 40 yard cast, will the IPT be less on the smaller spool?

[Deleted account]

4 minutes ago, Rodney Smith said:

To clarify my question, if both the 70 and 100 size reels make the the same 40 yard cast, will the IPT be less on the smaller spool?

Yes and no. What's really required to answer your question are the dimensions of the spools of the reels you are comparing, particularly the diameter and width. 

[CFDoc]

4 minutes ago, Rodney Smith said:

To clarify my question, if both the 70 and 100 size reels make the the same 40 yard cast, will the IPT be less on the smaller spool?

Did they both start with the same overall diameter? That is to say, is the amount of line in the 70 spool such that the overall diameter the same as the amount of line on the 100 spool?
 

If so then they will be extremely close in ipt.

 

 

Just now, BassWhole! said:

Yes and no. What's really required to answer your question are the dimensions of the spools of the reels you are comparing, particularly the diameter and width. 

 
In his case, the spools are identical in width. Only the depth of the sidewall changes.

[MN Fisher]

6 minutes ago, Rodney Smith said:

To clarify my question, if both the 70 and 100 size reels make the the same 40 yard cast, will the IPT be less on the smaller spool?

 

Just now, BassWhole! said:

Yes and no. What's really required to answer your question are the dimensions of the spools of the reels you are comparing, particularly the diameter and width. 

If the outer diameter and width of the spools are the same, with the 70 being a 'shallow version' of the 100 - then there will be no or minimal difference.

 

If the 70 is narrower, then the 70's IPT will drop quicker than the 100's based on a cast of the same distance using the same line.

[Deleted account]

4 minutes ago, CFDoc said:

In his case, the spools are identical in width. Only the depth of the sidewall changes.

In that case, they will have the same #s throughout, the only difference will be line capacity. 

So a 70 size is the same as a 100 with a larger arbor?

[WRB]

T.009D line is small for a bait casting reel but the high end reels you are using should be able to handle the line.

If thecspool is filled within a penny thickness (1/16”) removing 50 yards aof .009D line should change the line capacity or diameter of the filled spooled line very much. Doubt the IPT will drop more then 10% after a 50 yard cast.

Tom

[Team9nine]

Believe the last above comments are correct based on this TT explanation I saw on the Aldebaran. I assume the Metanium format is probably similar.

 

"...but the true meaning behind those number changes from 200 to 100 to 70 to 50, etc, is to delineate spool capacity. Therefore, if the change in capacity is small enough (e.g. from 100 to 70 or 50 to 30), all Shimano is really doing is changing the depth of that spool."

 

So as has been stated above, if only spool depth has changed and not spool diameter or width, then IPT will be nearly identical between the two in your scenario.

[J Francho]

21 minutes ago, Rodney Smith said:

To clarify my question, if both the 70 and 100 size reels make the the same 40 yard cast, will the IPT be less on the smaller spool?

They will be equal if the same line is used, and they are filled to the same level.