Potential solution to electrical problem

[TnRiver46]

A buddy of mine was over having a carport beer and asked about my boat. Within 2-3 minutes he found the back of my solenoid was corroded. Could this be why my bonding/ground wires burned up? 
 

he also took one look at my crank battery connections and said very plainly “redo all that $(@&............ Copper connections, solder, and shrink wrap”

 

[GaryH]

That was the best beer you ever shared. Glad for ya TNR.

[TnRiver46]

Just now, GaryH said:

That was the best beer you ever shared. Glad for ya TNR.

I sent him home with the other 11 in the box haha

[Biglittle8]

A Little different scenario, but when ever I bought old Harley's that was the first thing I did. Copper,Solder and heat shrink. Some quick connection is ok, but not on anything vital to having a good day! Beer well spent ?

[Jigfishn10]

I do agree and like the idea of solder and heat shrink.

 

Some kids climbed on my boat last summer and turned on every switch onboard and drained the battery.

 

My boat was moored in the bay so getting a solder iron/gun out to the boat wasn't an option. Dielectric grease, crimp wire connectors and electric tape was the modus operandi. Worked great in the salt water environment that it was in. 

 

I'm not saying that what I did is a better solution, but a solution that worked for me none-the-less.

 

As far as the solenoid being the problem? Could be? You may have to chase it further though. I find that troubleshooting to the N'th degree is always in order with electrical issues. Especially with boats.

[TnRiver46]

Special thanks to @galyonj! He came over and worked on my boat wires for several hours and finally diagnosed the issue: my depth finder wire shorts out somewhere along the way. He redid all my connections and everything worked correctly until we hooked up the depth finder, in which case it shorts/grounds out and the ground strap gets hot. So now all I hopefully need to do is replace the wires to the unit and be good to go ! 

[galyonj]

Bro, I'm just glad I could help get it figured out. Somewhere in this house I've got spools of cable that'll work for making replacement extension legs for your console-mount depth finder, and then that problem will be solved entirely.

 

I guess we can put your starter-adjustment hammer away for good now.

 

[Jigfishn10]

Good to hear @TnRiver46 and nice job troubleshooting the problem @galyonj. 

Electrical problems to me are always tricky. Never seems like there's an obvious solution.

Good luck with the final repairs. ?

[galyonj]

We got lucky -- these were easy problems. Even so, electrical problems almost always look worse than they are, but if you're careful about eliminating variables, the problems often as not solve themselves.

 

I don't own a boat, but I assume that @TnRiver46 is running the same setup as I assume just about everybody that fishes from a boat; a 3 battery system -- 24v for his trolling motor, then a 12v battery for his starter, trim, and accessories (lights, depthfinder, aeration, the compressor for his wacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube man, all that good stuff).

 

 

We knew he had some kind of short somewhere, otherwise there never would've been an issue with the grounding wires in the first place. Much less them flaming out the way they did.

 

So first we started with making sure our connections were good. Cleaning battery terminals, pinning cables for continuity, etc. I went through and replaced all the cable lugs and ring terminals I could find that touched that battery using what I jokingly called "the pants and suspenders method," Not only did we crimp the terminal connection, but we then soldered that to make sure it was solid, and then we slathered it in waterproof RTV, before melting heat shrink over that. It'll take a long time for nature to bugger them up again.

 

He found the stainless braided cable we used to make new grounding wires for his lower unit at Walmart, of all places, and it worked perfectly for what we needed. Here are his pretty new grounding straps we made with only the best materials that Walmart and Harbor Freight had to offer:

 

 

After that work, and replacing the starter, we connected everything back to test our progress and that's when we -- entirely by accident -- found the source of the fire that put his boat out of commission in the first place. He said he smelled burning, and that ground wire was glowing hot enough to light a cigarette off of. The only thing we added to the circuit that hadn't already been tested was the depth finder.

 

Anyway, probably, I dunno... 4 hours of work and we were all set. Probably coulda got done faster, but there's no value in hurrying with electricity.

 

I'm glad it's fixed, and I'm grateful I got to help. It was fun.

[TnRiver46]

Without all my friends I think I would have drowned or burned by now 

[galyonj]

@TnRiver46 and I need some advice.

 

The wiring fixes we did are fine, but we still have a charging issue.

 

Yesterday afternoon we tested the stator and the rectifier per the Mercury service manual. In addition, we did some diag on the battery itself.

• Stator tests 0.1Ω shy of the 0.2Ω-0.6Ω range that the manual wants.
• Rectifier tests OK per the manual.
• We've removed all accessories from the starting battery, so the only connections it has are directly to the engine.
• The battery cables have new copper lugs on the battery end.
• The battery terminals themselves were brushed and cleaned.
• We have good continuity through the battery cables to the engine (tested at several locations).
• Battery can trickle-charge to 12.9V, and has what appears to be plenty of water in it. I think he said the battery's 3 years old.
• The engine starts strong and the trim motor sounds strong -- correct me if I'm wrong on those, Russ, you know better than I do how they ought to sound.

But the battery still isn't charging via the engine-mounted charging system.

 

Ideas?

[TnRiver46]

12 minutes ago, galyonj said:

@TnRiver46

But the battery still isn't charging via the engine-mounted charging system.

 

Ideas?

Rip cords 4 life 

[galyonj]

1 minute ago, TnRiver46 said:

Rip cords 4 life 

 

[Jigfishn10]

I'm by no means a mechanic. I went through this last summer.

• I've got mixed advice about "trickle charging" some say good others say don't trickle charge, go the other way. Ok, whatever.
• Has the battery sat in the boat for 3 years straight? 3 years for a boat battery is kind of pushing it in my opinion? My battery was testing 12 plus volts on a trickle but would drain out and not recharge. I wound up with a new dual purpose battery and was fine the rest of the season. 

Again, I am by no means a mechanic, I use a different hammer. ? ... I really think the problem lies in the battery based on the outputs you're getting from the tests you ran.

 

[TnRiver46]

6 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

I'm by no means a mechanic. I went through this last summer.

• I've got mixed advice about "trickle charging" some say good others say don't trickle charge, go the other way. Ok, whatever.
• Has the battery sat in the boat for 3 years straight? 3 years for a boat battery is kind of pushing it in my opinion? My battery was testing 12 plus volts on a trickle but would drain out and not recharge. I wound up with a new dual purpose battery and was fine the rest of the season. 

Again, I am by no means a mechanic, I use a different hammer. ? ... I really think the problem lies in the battery based on the outputs you're getting from the tests you ran.

 

I’ve also charged it recently with a big charger on wheels, it seems to charge fine unless the motor is running, which drains it. but replacing the battery sure would be the easiest route . 
 

last night we hooked it up to another dual purpose battery and the same thing seemed to happen (I think) 

[galyonj]

23 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

I'm by no means a mechanic. I went through this last summer.

• I've got mixed advice about "trickle charging" some say good others say don't trickle charge, go the other way. Ok, whatever.
• Has the battery sat in the boat for 3 years straight? 3 years for a boat battery is kind of pushing it in my opinion? My battery was testing 12 plus volts on a trickle but would drain out and not recharge. I wound up with a new dual purpose battery and was fine the rest of the season. 

Again, I am by no means a mechanic, I use a different hammer. ? ... I really think the problem lies in the battery based on the outputs you're getting from the tests you ran.

 

 

I wouldn't call myself a mechanic, but I can turn a wrench and read a schematic. This is my first time working on a boat, though, and, honestly, it's close enough to a motorcycle engine/charging system that I don't feel terribly out of my depth. Which is nice.

 

We've both seen the battery at 12.9V, so I'm...assuming that it's good. But you know what they say about assumptions.

 

17 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

I’ve also charged it recently with a big charger on wheels, it seems to charge fine unless the motor is running, which drains it. but replacing the battery sure would be the easiest route . 
 

last night we hooked it up to another dual purpose battery and the same thing seemed to happen (I think) 

 

Yeah. We hooked the engine up to one of the deep-cycles you have for the trolling motor. Same result. Voltage drop at the terminals with the engine running. Further, I see the same voltage at the battery terminals as I do at the starter positive/ground with the engine running, so the only voltage the entire system is seeing is that supplied by the battery.

 

Even so, I don't think it's the battery. Even if the battery itself was bad, we should still meter out 13.8-14.3V at the starter.

[Jigfishn10]

I'm not questioning you're experience/intelligence @galyonj, you are far more qualified than I am the subject matter, that is for sure. I merely just threw an experience I just had with my battery issues. That battery was only 3 years old as well.

From what I understand, a battery weakens the more you charge it. Cranking an engine does require more current than turning on and running a trolling motor. 

I hope you find the solution to the problem though. I do think you're on the right path.

Good luck my friend. ?

[galyonj]

2 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

I'm not questioning you're experience/intelligence @galyonj, you are far more qualified than I am the subject matter, that is for sure. I merely just threw an experience I just had with my battery issues. That battery was only 3 years old as well.

From what I understand, a battery weakens the more you charge it. Cranking an engine does require more current than turning on and running a trolling motor. 

I hope you find the solution to the problem though. I do think you're on the right path.

Good luck my friend. ?

 

Oh, I didn't take it that way at all! I was explaining how spotty my experience is. lol

[Jigfishn10]

1 minute ago, galyonj said:

 

Oh, I didn't take it that way at all! I was explaining how spotty my experience is. lol

I didn't believe me...?

Articulating on a keyboard is not one of my better skills...LOL

I do think you're on the right path and knocking on the problem's door. Keep at it man. ?

 

BTW: Do you experience a voltage drop when your bike is running?

[TnRiver46]

2 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

I didn't believe me...?

Articulating on a keyboard is not one of my better skills...LOL

I do think you're on the right path and knocking on the problem's door. Keep at it man. ?

 

BTW: Do you experience a voltage drop when your bike is running?

Only if the stator is bad!!!

[galyonj]

5 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

BTW: Do you experience a voltage drop when your bike is running?

 

Oh, I don't ride. Growing up looking at my old man's leg was enough to keep me to four wheels. I have worked on bikes before, but my experience with cars (racing, wrecking, and fixing them) is far more comprehensive.

 

I've never seen voltage drop on an engine when everything was working the way it ought to.

 

ETA: I'm still trying to convince @TnRiver46 to let me put a shot of nitrous on the boat. ?

[Jigfishn10]

What's the voltage drop when the engine is running? 

I'm assuming you're starting out at 12.9V?

[TnRiver46]

1 minute ago, Jigfishn10 said:

What's the voltage drop when the engine is running? 

I'm assuming you're starting out at 12.9V?

Yes then it starts slowly going down to about 12.2-12.4 while running in driveway. On the river it will go for about and hour then doesn’t want to start. When I get back home it’s usually 11.9 or so. It actually gains voltage just sitting there, loses it while engine runs 

[Jigfishn10]

One of the things I was advised to do was to drain the battery and put it on "bulk" charge...should take 30 min tops. Supposedly that loosens up the deposits on the battery plates.

Heck, it's a battery that's 3 years old, it's worth a try.

[TnRiver46]

5 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

One of the things I was advised to do was to drain the battery and put it on "bulk" charge...should take 30 min tops. Supposedly that loosens up the deposits on the battery plates.

Heck, it's a battery that's 3 years old, it's worth a try.

My big charger will go 2 amp, 10 amp, 40 amp, or 200. I’m guessing bulk is 40? 
 

the weird thing was battery #2, a dual purpose, started the motor fine also but wouldn’t “charge” while running (like the stator/alternator isn’t working)