Now I know why bass numbers have declined.

[gim]

Like A-Jay experienced, some of the best bass fishing I’ve recently experienced also produced a new personal best tiger muskellunge last season. Just slightly different though as my bass were largemouth and the muskie was a hybrid. They can and do co-exist happily without causing issues.

[Ski213]

This is simply my opinion based on a lake pretty local to me. About an hour away and I think it’s around 6000 acres. There are certainly bass in it and some decent ones. Typically the guys that do consistently well there for bass are very experienced on the waters. To the public as a whole it’s known as a musky lake though. I’ve heard it called the Dead Sea by most when it comes to bass. Years ago I assumed it was the musky hurting the bass population. Over time and after learning more about how the lake is managed I think it’s a management issue. By issue I’m not meaning a problem, more just what fish and wildlife is shooting for in that particular water.  I’m not a biologist but it seems in that lake they shoot for a biological balance of all other species in the lake but focus on the musky population being abundant to keep it a popular musky fishery. Again this is just a laypersons opinion but maybe what your seeing is the result of what the managing entity (if there is one) is shooting for. Maybe the decline in bass fishing is a result of a focus shift in the management of the waterway. Could for sure also be just a natural shift though. Just a thought. Either way if that’s one of your spots I hate that you’re seeing a decline in bass fishing. 

[soflabasser]

If I lived up north I would fish more for muskie than almost any other northern fish. I would still fish for bass but I prefer catching muskies.

[Bird]

2 hours ago, Bankbeater said:

Does that river have a problem with carp?

Yes

[WRB]

The Unfortunately few Musky west of the Rocky Mountains.

Musky are my favorite fresh water sport fish to catch.

My wife family are from Minnesota spending 75% of their time on Lake of the Woods Ontario Canada.

Musk was a fish I only read about, lots of lore about these fish. Then I married into a family who owned a home on Lake of the Woods and fly in cabins, my father in law had a float plane and hanger on the lake.

If I had a choice to fish for musky or bass, musky wins.

All my trophy bass fishing skills work for muskies that are 3X as big, phenomenal fish.

Tom 

 

 

[Glenn]

Washington State Tiger Muskie record is 37.88 lbs.

Oregon State Tiger Musky Info: https://myodfw.com/fishing/species/tiger-muskie

Idaho state record is over 44lbs

I know it's not a pure-bred Musky, but still....

[Bluebasser86]

One of my favorite lakes in Missouri for bass is also one of the best lakes in the state for muskie. It doesn't produce lots of bass, but the big ones are there and that's what I like.

 

Here they blame them for eating all the crappie. Or they blame the smallmouth for eating all the crappie, or blue cats for eating all the crappie or walleye. Meanwhile, none of the guys targeting those fish species have ever practiced selective harvest in their lives and instead live by the "gotta fill the freezer", mantra.

 

My brother in law caught this muskie out of the lake I mentioned in Missouri. Appeared that someone had cut/ripped it's gills out and released it in an attempt to kill it but the fish had managed to survive.

[galyonj]

8 hours ago, WRB said:

The Unfortunately no Musky west of the Rocky Mountains.

 

8 hours ago, Glenn said:

Washington State Tiger Muskie record is 37.88 lbs.

Oregon State Tiger Musky Info: https://myodfw.com/fishing/species/tiger-muskie

Idaho state record is over 44lbs

I know it's not a pure-bred Musky, but still....

 

Over the summer I did quite a bit of research in prep for a (now indefinitely postponed) move to Oregon. One of the things I learned was, apparently, salmon anglers on the Columbia river system just hate smallmouth bass because they believe that smallmouth predation is the reason that salmon fishing is on the decline.

 

You two (and other locals) would probably be the experts here, but I have serious doubts that aquatic species numbers decline so severely simply due to predation by other aquatic species. Fish have eaten other fish ever since the second fish hatched, and they seem to do just fine by themselves.

 

I think it's far more likely that any decline in fishing is due to a combination of overfishing/poor fishing practices and poor management.

 

7 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

Appeared that someone had cut/ripped it's gills out and released it in an attempt to kill it but the fish had managed to survive.

 

I hate people sometimes.

[Johnbt]

There's an outfitter in Charlottesville who's been fishing for muskie for a number of years along with the usual chance to catch 50 to 100 smallies a day. I've never been because I can catch all the smallmouth I want by rockhopping downtown in James River Park.

 

His favorite Virginia muskie rivers are the Shenandoah, James and New.

 

Here's a hint: "September – April or May depending on water temperatures. Once the water temps warm up to around 75 degrees we will stop fishing for them."

[Steveo-1969]

I fish the Upper Potomac River for smallmouth (the Shenandoah dumps into the Potomac at Harper’s Ferry, WV) and we have also seen an uptick in musky numbers and a downtrend in smallmouth numbers. But this is the first time I’ve read there’s a correlation between the two. Did the article you mentioned say that? If so, can you site the source? I’d love to read it.

 

The MD DNR now has a smallmouth stocking program for the Upper Potomac. Their explanation for dwindling numbers is flooding during the spawn for several years in a row. I’ve also seen anglers in another forum blame the rising flathead catfish population.

[Johnbt]

Muskie populations in Virginia are self sustaining in the James and New rivers. The state runs a stocking program for a dozen or two rivers and lakes.

 

"Virginia Tech and the VDGIF have done several studies on musky diets. They concluded that bass make up less than 10% of what a typical musky consumes. Suckerfish were the largest type of musky food source at over 50% of the sampled fish. It’s pretty cool how they actually gathered this data for the study. Musky over 32″ in length were harvested through electrofishing. Electrofishing temporarily stuns the fish but does not do any permanent harm. The biologists then pumped pressurized water into the fish stomachs causing the contents to be expelled. This practice is great because it allows them to study what the musky are feeding on without killing/dissecting the fish.

Sources: The Roanoke Times 
Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries"

[Bird]

1 hour ago, Steveo-1969 said:

I fish the Upper Potomac River for smallmouth (the Shenandoah dumps into the Potomac at Harper’s Ferry, WV) and we have also seen an uptick in musky numbers and a downtrend in smallmouth numbers. But this is the first time I’ve read there’s a correlation between the two. Did the article you mentioned say that? If so, can you site the source? I’d love to read it.

 

The MD DNR now has a smallmouth stocking program for the Upper Potomac. Their explanation for dwindling numbers is flooding during the spawn for several years in a row. I’ve also seen anglers in another forum blame the rising flathead catfish population.

Unfortunately I did no research before posting and was just going by my own assumptions.......big fish with big teeth eat little fish. Lol

 

BUT after doing some research my findings are as you say, repeated flooding during peak of spawn for several consecutive years " as I can attest " had much more impact on the declining bass numbers. 

 

Good news, witnessed a great spawn for upper Shenandoah in 2020.

[soflabasser]

17 hours ago, WRB said:

All my trophy bass fishing skills work for muskies that are 3X as big, phenomenal fish.

That is correct and that is why I found muskie much easier to catch than what some people say. They are not the ''fish of 10,000 cast'' and anyone who is good at catching big bass should be good at muskie fishing. 

On 2/11/2021 at 3:47 PM, jimmyjoe said:

   I would be cautious linking Musky and negative influences on bass. One of my local lakes had huge numbers of medium-to-small size bass. Musky were introduced, and 6-8 years later, numbers have drastically decreased (which is good) but size has dramatically INcreased (which is also good.)

   The lake now has a reputation as a desirable bass lake. Go figure.                     jj

Every place I have caught muskies also had larger than average size bass. It seems muskie improve the quality of bass in a body of water.

[Cdn Angler]

Any study of muskie around here has found that bass are basically not on their menu. They may compete for food though. 

[Glenn]

11 hours ago, galyonj said:

One of the things I learned was, apparently, salmon anglers on the Columbia river system just hate smallmouth bass because they believe that smallmouth predation is the reason that salmon fishing is on the decline.

Yes, it's true they believe that, even though there's been numerous studies to prove how much damage they do have turned up zero evidence.  Really all those studies have done nothing more than to prove quite the opposite.  The most damming evidence shows salmon consist of just 2% of a smallmouth's diet on the Columbia.

 

Nonetheless, both Oregon and WA dept of wildlife have removed all restrictions on smallmouth, walleye, and catfish because of the very vocal and misinformed salmon anglers.  You know, the same ones actively killing the salmon they say the want to save?  By the tens of thousands?

 

Ya, them.

 

[MN Fisher]

Just now, Glenn said:

Nonetheless, both Oregon and WA dept of wildlife have removed all restrictions on smallmouth, walleye, and catfish because of the very vocal and misinformed salmon anglers.  You know, the same ones actively killing the salmon they say the want to save?  By the tens of thousands?

 

Ya, them.

"Mob rule' really sucks sometimes.

[Boomstick]

Bass and musky have co-existed for years. Unless muskies were fairly recently introduced, I wouldn't think they are the reason for the declining bass population.

[TnRiver46]

50 minutes ago, Glenn said:

Yes, it's true they believe that, even though there's been numerous studies to prove how much damage they do have turned up zero evidence.  Really all those studies have done nothing more than to prove quite the opposite.  The most damming evidence shows salmon consist of just 2% of a smallmouth's diet on the Columbia.

 

Nonetheless, both Oregon and WA dept of wildlife have removed all restrictions on smallmouth, walleye, and catfish because of the very vocal and misinformed salmon anglers.  You know, the same ones actively killing the salmon they say the want to save?  By the tens of thousands?

 

Ya, them.

 

Sounds about right! Most things work fairly smoothly until you involve humans. Ever been involved with an HOA ?? Haha

[Eric 26]

21 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

One of my favorite lakes in Missouri for bass is also one of the best lakes in the state for muskie. It doesn't produce lots of bass, but the big ones are there and that's what I like.

 

Here they blame them for eating all the crappie. Or they blame the smallmouth for eating all the crappie, or blue cats for eating all the crappie or walleye. Meanwhile, none of the guys targeting those fish species have ever practiced selective harvest in their lives and instead live by the "gotta fill the freezer", mantra.

 

My brother in law caught this muskie out of the lake I mentioned in Missouri. Appeared that someone had cut/ripped it's gills out and released it in an attempt to kill it but the fish had managed to 

 

It truly saddens me to see what people are capable of doing. If you’re not happy fishing where a certain type of fish species dwells find another lake ? It drives me nuts that people think they’re smarter than the people who manage these lakes for a living,a meager one at best who are generally very passionate about the work they do.

[jimmyjoe]

36 minutes ago, Eric 26 said:

the people who manage these lakes for a living,a meager one at best who are generally very passionate about the work they do.

 

  Amen. What's the old saying? "The better you do, the more they blame you."     jj  

[geo g]

A young angler just caught a South American paraminera in the Chatholchie river, in south Florida, they can get up to 10 ft long and over 400pounds.  Another exotic released in our waters.  The place is getting wild!

[Bird]

Never heard of that fish.

Sure your not talking about the Arapaima which is indeed the largest fresh water fish in South America. 

[gim]

On 2/11/2021 at 10:42 PM, Bluebasser86 said:

Here they blame them for eating all the crappie. Or they blame the smallmouth for eating all the crappie, or blue cats for eating all the crappie or walleye. Meanwhile, none of the guys targeting those fish species have ever practiced selective harvest in their lives and instead live by the "gotta fill the freezer", mantra.

That has happened here too and it’s probably not going away. The real problem is over harvest of those species by anglers. Not predation by another species.

[Michigander]

On 2/11/2021 at 8:19 PM, slonezp said:

Musky aren't affecting the bass population. They didn't get that big on bass alone. I'm guessing their bellies are full of shad

More likely suckers or carp. Musky love those rough fish.

21 hours ago, Boomstick said:

Bass and musky have co-existed for years. Unless muskies were fairly recently introduced, I wouldn't think they are the reason for the declining bass population.

They have, they weren't, they're not. LoL

[soflabasser]

That is great that young man found a arapaima in Florida. They are one of the best freshwater gamefish in the world. 

4 hours ago, Bird said:

Never heard of that fish.

Sure your not talking about the Arapaima which is indeed the largest fresh water fish in South America. 

I read an article online that says a young man recently found a arapaima in Florida. I am sure there are more of them along with other exotics. Florida is one of the few places in the world where you can catch fish from at least 5 continents. It is a paradise for a multi species fisherman.