A Tale of Two Tatulas; newb needs advice

[Dash Riprock]

So I've been lurking here for a few months, picking up on the latest and greatest equipment and techniques. I went a little crazy during the Black Friday sales and bought, among other things I didn't need, a Daiwa Tatula SV TW103 and a Tatula CT. I paired the SV to a St. Croix Triumph 6'6" with Suffix 832 20lb braid, and the CT to a Dobyns Sierra Series 703 with Seaguar Smackdown 50lb. I intended the SV to be for lighter finesse type stuff and the CT for heavier rigs and lures. 

 

I've only had a chance to take these out a couple of times. First time was about a month ago. I couldn't get the CT dialed in and finally gave up after several bird's nests on various lures. I got the SV dialed in almost immediately. It was money. 

 

Took them both out today and while the SV was still money, I continue to struggle with the CT. I got better, but still have an occasional birds nest. I'm not sure what, if anything, I'm doing wrong.

 

My understanding from reading various posts here and elsewhere is that the Tatula braking system is a little different than others. I understand that rather than adjusting the tension knob until the lure falls gently without a backlash, you only tighten it enough to where the spool has just the slightest of play back and forth, then rely on the brake adjustment dial. Start at 10 and go from there, but it's intended to be a "set it and forget it" deal. 

 

I did that with the SV and man, it works. It works on light ned rigs, it works on heavier bladed jigs with a trailer. It truly has been "set it and forget it" thus far. I've gotten to where I don't much worry about thumbing it, it's that good. I really, really like this reel.

 

Unfortunately the CT is a different story. I tried the "spool back and forth" setting with brakes on 10. Disaster. I started monkeying with the tension adjustment and finally got to where it was usable, but I have no confidence from cast to cast that I'm not going to get a backlash, so I end up riding my thumb the whole time. Plus every lure I put on requires me to fiddle with it, which is something I thought this braking system was supposed to avoid. 

 

Am I doing something wrong? Did I misundertand how this system works, or is the CT different from the SV? Does the extra length of the rod I have the CT mounted to have anything to do with this? Or the heavier line? Is there something I need to check on the CT spool to make sure it's not malfunctioning?

 

Thanks! 

 

 

 

[kayaking_kev]

I can't offer any solutions, but wanted to say I have sort of the same problem with both Tatula 100's that I've had. I also have the Tatula SV and love that reel, and have also owned the Daiwa Catalina and Tatula CT Type-R and had no problems, but my 100's seem very finicky, especially with fluorocarbon, even when using line conditioner. Sorry I can't help though, I hope you get it resolved.

[GTN-NY]

Oh great! I bought 4 of the CT’s on BF and haven’t spooled them up yet to try them out. I was told about the tension knob stuff and thought I was all set. Maybe tomorrow I’ll spool up to throw something into the snow banks 

[jimmyjoe]

   Sometimes the rotors on Magforce-Z reels gets "stuck". Take the left sideplate off, and VERY CAREFULLY see whether the rotor will move in and out easily. If it doesn't you have your problem right there.

   If it does, take the finest oil you know of and oil the shaft on the spool, then re-assemble the reel and cast several times. See if there's not a change.

 

   Good luck!         jj

[Born 2 fish]

You could tighten up the cast control knob and take all the side to side play out. That might help you out.

[GReb]

The only time I’ve ever run into problems with the magforce breaks is when trying to muscle a cast. Where you can rip most centrifugal brake reels like Shimano, Abu, quantum, etc if you try to over power a Daiwa it’s going to be a disaster. A simple roll cast or short wristed flick works great

[Big Hands]

The Tatula CT does not have the 'zero adjust' tension system, so you would adjust the bearing tension the traditional way. The Tatula 100 does have the zero adjust, as do a couple of other Tatula baitcasters, but most have the traditional spool shaft bearing adjustment systems.

 

If a Daiwa has the zero adjust system, you can tell by looking at the bearing cap. On the zero adjust system reels, the cap is thin and hard to get at, and it is generally very difficult to turn with your fingers. They are supposedly adjusted properly from the factory, so it's best to get one in an unopened box if you can.

 

I have a Tatula 100 (with zero adjust) and a Tatula SV TW (non-zero adjust). My Tatula 100 was a floor model, and I had to initially fiddle with it, but since then, I don't have to mess with the bearing tension as advertised, and only make adjustments to the braking system via the dial on the non-drive side plate.

 

The Tatula SV TW (not to be confused with the current model Tatula SV TW103, which the OP has, which does have the zero-adjust system) does occasionally need a small adjustment if I change bait types, but not much.

[Hammer 4]

Strange. I have 4 Tatula's, and I don't an issue with any of them getting over runs, and I have mine set fairly loose for the best casting distance. What I do, is use my thumb as a braking system, as most old timers do. So maybe training your thumb may be the answer instead of relying on the reel's tech. ?

[PhishLI]

4 hours ago, Dash Riprock said:

 the CT to a Dobyns Sierra Series 703 with Seaguar Smackdown 50lb.

There's an outside possibility that the rotor is stuck, but that's unlikely. If it's not, your issue is that you're overloading the rod. I'm making this assumption because you've spooled the CT with 50lb braid. Your rod, while labelled a MH, is much more like a typical medium power rod, and a somewhat soft one at that. Once you've loaded it with a bait slightly past it's sweet spot you'll have a tendency to slingshot your casts. I'm not saying that you can't cast hard with that reel on that rod, but it's something you'll need to learn to feel over time.

 

Don't get stuck on numbers on a dial either. 10 on a SV reel has little to do with 10 on a Magforce Z reel on a different rod, etc. Crank the brakes up a bit if need be, but before you try that, try this. Let the bait load the rod deeper on the back cast, then release your thumb a touch earlier than you would normally. I'm not suggesting that you gently lob the cast, but take a bit of steam off your stroke, This will send the bait in a higher trajectory. A higher arc. The bait will be pulling line out and staying ahead of the spool's rotation which will delay gravity from pulling the bait down. Somewhere during the ascent the rotor will project into the gap and apply braking just about the time gravity is taking over, and the spool won't over run the line.

 

Once you've reduced the energy you put into the cast, and more importantly where and when you apply it, you'll begin to develop a feel for what that reel on that rod does. You'll have calibrated your stroke. Don't worry, because once you've gotten a grip on things this will become second nature. Not something you'll need to think about at all. It may take a minute. Have patience. It's worth it.

[Hammer 4]

3 minutes ago, PhishLI said:

There's an outside possibility that the rotor is stuck, but that's unlikely. If it's not, your issue is that you're overloading the rod. I'm making this assumption because you've spooled the CT with 50lb braid. You're rod, while labelled a MH, is much more like a typical medium power rod, and a somewhat soft one at that. Once you've loaded it with a bait slightly past it's sweet spot you'll have a tendency to slingshot your casts. I'm not saying that you can't cast hard with that reel on that rod, but it's something you'll need to learn to feel over time.

 

Don't get stuck on numbers on a dial either. 10 on a SV reel has little to do with 10 on a Magforce Z reel on a different rod, etc. Crank the brakes up a bit if need be, but before you try that, try this. Let the bait load the rod deeper on the back cast, then release your thumb a touch earlier than you would normally. I'm not suggesting that you gently lob the cast, but take a bit of steam off your stroke, This will send the bait in a higher trajectory. A higher arc. The bait will be pulling line out and staying ahead of the spool's rotation which will delay gravity from pulling the bait down. Somewhere during the ascent the rotor will project into the gap and apply braking just about the time gravity is taking over. 

 

Once you've reduced the energy you put into the cast, and more importantly where and when you apply it, you'll begin to develop a feel for what that reel on that rod does. You'll have calibrated your stroke. Don't worry, because once you've gotten a grip on things this will become second nature. Not something you'll need to think about at all. It may take a minute. Have patience. It's worth it.

^^^^ This is anther good point. One I failed to mention.

[Deplorable Fisherman]

6 hours ago, Big Hands said:

The Tatula CT does not have the 'zero adjust' tension system, so you would adjust the bearing tension the traditional way. The Tatula 100 does have the zero adjust, as do a couple of other Tatula baitcasters, but most have the traditional spool shaft bearing adjustment systems.

 

If a Daiwa has the zero adjust system, you can tell by looking at the bearing cap. On the zero adjust system reels, the cap is thin and hard to get at, and it is generally very difficult to turn with your fingers. They are supposedly adjusted properly from the factory, so it's best to get one in an unopened box if you can.

 

I have a Tatula 100 (with zero adjust) and a Tatula SV TW (non-zero adjust). My Tatula 100 was a floor model, and I had to initially fiddle with it, but since then, I don't have to mess with the bearing tension as advertised, and only make adjustments to the braking system via the dial on the non-drive side plate.

 

The Tatula SV TW (not to be confused with the current model Tatula SV TW103, which the OP has, which does have the zero-adjust system) does occasionally need a small adjustment if I change bait types, but not much.

After reading the OP I was going to chime in with the same response. The CT does not have Daiwa's Zero Adjust so you will need to set up the rig traditionally, using the tension knob to adjust to lure weight. 

I have older SV TWs without the Zero Adjust and Tatula 100s and an Alphas SV TW with it. 

[ironbjorn]

I think the biggest problem you have is treating that 3 power Sierra like a standard medium heavy. It excels between 1/4-3/8oz and essentially a M/MF. 

[MN Fisher]

20 minutes ago, ironbjorn said:

I think the biggest problem you have is treating that 3 power Sierra like a standard medium heavy. It excels between 1/4-3/8oz and essentially a M/MF. 

This is pretty much standard across all Dobyns lines for the casting rods. Take what the words say and drop it by one power level for the standard rods.

3 - Medium-Heavy - really a Medium

4 - Heavy - really a Medium-Heavy

5 - Mag-Heavy - really a Heavy

 

This breaks when you're getting into the technique specific rods though. Also the spinning line is actually 'accurate' based on the words as they change across spinning/casting types

703SF - labeled Medium

703C - labeled Medium-Heavy

 

So it gets very confusing when you're shopping Dobyns...I ignore the 'words' and just focus on the rating numbers.

[Russ E]

It sounds to me like your brake is not working properly on the ct.

The ct and sv have different spools.

The sv spool was designed to limit backlashes, when casting light lures, pitching etc. The other models take a little more thumb control, but can potentially  cast farther.

 

I have 3 tatula sv, 3 tatula ct, 4 tatula 100, and 2 fuego's.

Some have the zero adjust knob and some do not. They all work the same. The magforce brake is designed to be the primary cast control.

The zero adjust knob is just a marketing device. The only difference is it is harder to adjust.

I adjust the spools all the same. With a small amount of side to side play and use the magnet for cast control. 

I have heard people talk about having to relearn casting when using a Diawa. To me that is completely false. 

I can power cast all of my diawa reels just as well or better than all of my other reels. Backlashes are extremely rare.

 

[Dash Riprock]

8 hours ago, Big Hands said:

The Tatula CT does not have the 'zero adjust' tension system, so you would adjust the bearing tension the traditional way. The Tatula 100 does have the zero adjust, as do a couple of other Tatula baitcasters, but most have the traditional spool shaft bearing adjustment systems.

 

If a Daiwa has the zero adjust system, you can tell by looking at the bearing cap. On the zero adjust system reels, the cap is thin and hard to get at, and it is generally very difficult to turn with your fingers. They are supposedly adjusted properly from the factory, so it's best to get one in an unopened box if you can.

 

Yes, the SV I have has that tension knob that is a royal pain to adjust. When I first got the reel and didn't know what I was doing, I played around with it out of the box and wondered why they made the tension knob so hard to access. Then I read the owner's manual and oops, I'm an idiot. That led me down the google/youtube path, which as usual cleared up some things but not others. Pretty sure I got it back to where it needs to be because like I said, this thing casts like a machine now.

 

I guess I was under the impression that the Tatula systems were all the same but apparently not. That explains why the tension knobs are different. Thanks!

 

 

 

7 hours ago, PhishLI said:

There's an outside possibility that the rotor is stuck, but that's unlikely. If it's not, your issue is that you're overloading the rod. I'm making this assumption because you've spooled the CT with 50lb braid. Your rod, while labelled a MH, is much more like a typical medium power rod, and a somewhat soft one at that. Once you've loaded it with a bait slightly past it's sweet spot you'll have a tendency to slingshot your casts. I'm not saying that you can't cast hard with that reel on that rod, but it's something you'll need to learn to feel over time.

 

Don't get stuck on numbers on a dial either. 10 on a SV reel has little to do with 10 on a Magforce Z reel on a different rod, etc. Crank the brakes up a bit if need be, but before you try that, try this. Let the bait load the rod deeper on the back cast, then release your thumb a touch earlier than you would normally. I'm not suggesting that you gently lob the cast, but take a bit of steam off your stroke, This will send the bait in a higher trajectory. A higher arc. The bait will be pulling line out and staying ahead of the spool's rotation which will delay gravity from pulling the bait down. Somewhere during the ascent the rotor will project into the gap and apply braking just about the time gravity is taking over, and the spool won't over run the line.

 

Once you've reduced the energy you put into the cast, and more importantly where and when you apply it, you'll begin to develop a feel for what that reel on that rod does. You'll have calibrated your stroke. Don't worry, because once you've gotten a grip on things this will become second nature. Not something you'll need to think about at all. It may take a minute. Have patience. It's worth it.

 

Thanks, this makes sense. I was wondering if the rod had something to do with it but I was looking at the length more than the power. This is my first 7' rod, the others I've used are 6'6" (the St. Croix on the SV and an old Abu Blue Max combo I've had for a while before deciding to upgrade stuff last year). I'm not skilled enough to appreciate the differences in power ratings, but I'll keep this in mind next time. 

 

[BigAngus752]

This is not intended to be snarky in any way.  Have you used a baitcaster before?  Unless the CT has a mechanical issue this really, really sounds like a problem with casting technique.  I can cast much further with my CT and CT-R than I can with my SVs (using lures with some weight).  You seem to be setting the reel correctly.  What @PhishLI says is something to look at also. 

7 hours ago, PhishLI said:

If it's not, your issue is that you're overloading the rod.

I think you need to stop looking at the reel and look at everything else.  

 

 

[Dash Riprock]

2 hours ago, Deplorable Fisherman said:

After reading the OP I was going to chime in with the same response. The CT does not have Daiwa's Zero Adjust so you will need to set up the rig traditionally, using the tension knob to adjust to lure weight. 

I have older SV TWs without the Zero Adjust and Tatula 100s and an Alphas SV TW with it. 

 

Right, I ended up doing this (traditional adjustment) after I kept getting bird's nests on the CT and it worked better. Still not as well as the SV, but better. I'd readjust to that "side-to-side" thing when I changed lures just to see if I could find a sweet spot, but I couldn't. I guess I misunderstood how some of these Tatula reels work. It's confusing.

 

 

15 minutes ago, BigAngus752 said:

This is not intended to be snarky in any way.  Have you used a baitcaster before?  Unless the CT has a mechanical issue this really, really sounds like a problem with casting technique.  I can cast much further with my CT and CT-R than I can with my SVs (using lures with some weight).  You seem to be setting the reel correctly.  What @PhishLI says is something to look at also. 

I think you need to stop looking at the reel and look at everything else.  

 

 

 

Yes, I've had an Abu Blue Max combo for maybe 10-ish years (?) that I got pretty decent with but at the end of the day I'm just an occasional bank fisherman who wanted to upgrade his equipment. So yeah, I'm sure my casting technique leaves much to be desired. And I'm fine with that, I just found it odd that these two reels that I thought had the same braking system performed so differently, and I wanted to understand why. Maybe next time I go out I'll switch out the rods and see what happens.

 

 

[BigAngus752]

20 minutes ago, Dash Riprock said:

Yes, I've had an Abu Blue Max combo for maybe 10-ish years (?) that I got pretty decent with but at the end of the day I'm just an occasional bank fisherman who wanted to upgrade his equipment. So yeah, I'm sure my casting technique leaves much to be desired. And I'm fine with that, I just found it odd that these two reels that I thought had the same braking system performed so differently, and I wanted to understand why. Maybe next time I go out I'll switch out the rods and see what happens.

 

This has to be a discouraging but I'm certain you can work this out.  If you were proficient with Blue Max then you are going to absolutely love both of your Daiwas when you get them squared away. 

[Dash Riprock]

7 hours ago, Hammer 4 said:

Strange. I have 4 Tatula's, and I don't an issue with any of them getting over runs, and I have mine set fairly loose for the best casting distance. What I do, is use my thumb as a braking system, as most old timers do. So maybe training your thumb may be the answer instead of relying on the reel's tech. ?

 

Yeah, I can do it old school well enough to get by but man, watching that SV spool regulate itself to the point where I had enough confidence to back the thumb completely off was really something. I guess I got spoiled.

[Russ E]

One thing I have noticed on a couple of the latest Diawa's I have purchased, was an excess of lube on the spool bearings.

This hindered the performance quite a bit.

I flushed the bearings and gave them a drop of reel oil and they improved dramatically

[Blaine Donders]

1 hour ago, Russ E said:

It sounds to me like your brake is not working properly on the ct.

The ct and sv have different spools.

The sv spool was designed to limit backlashes, when casting light lures, pitching etc. The other models take a little more thumb control, but can potentially  cast farther.

 

I have 3 tatula sv, 3 tatula ct, 4 tatula 100, and 2 fuego's.

Some have the zero adjust knob and some do not. They all work the same. The magforce brake is designed to be the primary cast control.

The zero adjust knob is just a marketing device. The only difference is it is harder to adjust.

I adjust the spools all the same. With a small amount of side to side play and use the magnet for cast control. 

I have heard people talk about having to relearn casting when using a Diawa. To me that is completely false. 

I can power cast all of my diawa reels just as well or better than all of my other reels. Backlashes are extremely rare.

 

This is a good point about the “Zero Adjust”. Mine have all been too loose from the factory, so I have to adjust my new 100’s the same as my CT’s and SV’s. Supposed to be about .2mm free play, and they came with like a millimeter.

[Dash Riprock]

3 hours ago, Russ E said:

It sounds to me like your brake is not working properly on the ct.

The ct and sv have different spools.

The sv spool was designed to limit backlashes, when casting light lures, pitching etc. The other models take a little more thumb control, but can potentially  cast farther.

 

 

 

This is something else I kept running across while googling but never completely understood. I get that the SV spool is designed for lighter lures, that's why I invested in one, but what makes this so? In other words, how is the CT spool different from the SV spool? 

 

Also, I noticed that Daiwa has SV designations across several different models, presumably to indicate lighter application for that particular model line. I get the impression that Shimano does something similar with "MGL"?  

 

Then there's the SV TW vs. the SV TW103. Never really found a good answer as to the difference, although from some of the responses here the 103 has the "zero adjust" knob. Lots of confusion. 

 

Whatever the case, it works. This Tatula SV was casting weightless worms as easily as 1/4 oz trailered jigs without any adjustment on my part. Of course the weightless worms don't cast as far but that's to be expected. I didn't get backlashes with anything. It was amazing.

 

 

13 hours ago, jimmyjoe said:

   Sometimes the rotors on Magforce-Z reels gets "stuck". Take the left sideplate off, and VERY CAREFULLY see whether the rotor will move in and out easily. If it doesn't you have your problem right there.

   If it does, take the finest oil you know of and oil the shaft on the spool, then re-assemble the reel and cast several times. See if there's not a change.

 

   Good luck!         jj

 

Out of curiosity, I took the sideplates off both reels this morning and noticed that the rotor on the CT was much tighter than on the SV. However, while the SV's rotor moved in and out with less effort, it was a bit rough, like sand or something was inside grinding against something else. The CT's movement was silky smooth, just required noticeably more effort to move in and out, if that makes sense. Dunno what if anything this means. 

 

If I get some time this week I'll disassemble them both and take a look. 

[garroyo130]

14 minutes ago, Dash Riprock said:

If I get some time this week I'll disassemble them both and take a look. 

 

I would caution against getting into the magforce brakes unless you're comfortable with reels as even swapping out the mag adjustment knob took a bit of effort. 

 

If you turn the brakes up to full does that work as it should? After using several Fuego CT's (same as Tat minus T wing), I am inclined to agree with @Russ E that the culprit is likely the lube. Even if you don't clean them, as a start I would try adding a drop of oil on them to see if it makes any difference.

[Russ E]

49 minutes ago, Dash Riprock said:

 

This is something else I kept running across while googling but never completely understood. I get that the SV spool is designed for lighter lures, that's why I invested in one, but what makes this so? In other words, how is the CT spool different from the SV spool? 

 

Also, I noticed that Daiwa has SV designations across several different models, presumably to indicate lighter application for that particular model line. I get the impression that Shimano does something similar with "MGL"?  

 

Then there's the SV TW vs. the SV TW103. Never really found a good answer as to the difference, although from some of the responses here the 103 has the "zero adjust" knob. Lots of confusion. 

 

Whatever the case, it works. This Tatula SV was casting weightless worms as easily as 1/4 oz trailered jigs without any adjustment on my part. Of course the weightless worms don't cast as far but that's to be expected. I didn't get backlashes with anything. It was amazing.

 

 

 

Out of curiosity, I took the sideplates off both reels this morning and noticed that the rotor on the CT was much tighter than on the SV. However, while the SV's rotor moved in and out with less effort, it was a bit rough, like sand or something was inside grinding against something else. The CT's movement was silky smooth, just required noticeably more effort to move in and out, if that makes sense. Dunno what if anything this means. 

 

If I get some time this week I'll disassemble them both and take a look. 

I am not exactly sure how It works, but the sv spool is shallower and lighter. It slows down a lot faster than a standard spool. It also holds less line than a non sv spool

[Dash Riprock]

1 hour ago, garroyo130 said:

 

I would caution against getting into the magforce brakes unless you're comfortable with reels as even swapping out the mag adjustment knob took a bit of effort. 

 

If you turn the brakes up to full does that work as it should? After using several Fuego CT's (same as Tat minus T wing), I am inclined to agree with @Russ E that the culprit is likely the lube. Even if you don't clean them, as a start I would try adding a drop of oil on them to see if it makes any difference.

 

I played around with the brakes but I don't think I ever turned them all the way up to full (which I think is 20?). Don't get me wrong, I was able to get the CT to work OK, I just never got it to the point of mindlessness like the SV has been pretty much out of the box. That's what I was expecting.

 

Point taken on disassembling the brakes - I'm comfortable enough to do it, maybe I won't have to. We'll see.