Damage from tournaments

[Chance_Taker4]

In still on the fence when it comes to spawn fishing. But I do believe there needs to be regulations on tournaments. Meaning there is a lake near me that hosts 3-5 tournaments a weekend every weekend from May to September. And not because of the quality of fish but because we are limited in lakes of decent size in my area. And when your holding 50-60 events a year on one lake I bet that mortality rate is above average.

[TOXIC]

It’s natural to be concerned and you should call your  local DNR Fisheries Biologist and ask the question to see what they say.  Don’t be surprised if they tell you it has no impact though.  

[scaleface]

On 2/4/2021 at 12:01 PM, Captain Phil said:

 Bass, like most fish, overbreed.

 This.

[Glenn]

Do tournaments harm fisheries?  Here's my take:

 

 

[jbsoonerfan]

I have ZERO numbers to back up what I am about to say, but I bet there are bigger bass caught pre-spawn (feeding stage) as opposed to the spawn (sitting on beds). 

 

Anyone who hunts deer will tell you that a big buck is easier to kill during the pre-rut (searching for a hot doe) as opposed to the full rut (breeding a doe).

[fissure_man]

On 2/4/2021 at 1:26 PM, TOXIC said:

Hot bed topic that gets bantered around often.  My advice is to follow the science.  Many studies have been done on Lake St Clair and they have shown that fishing during the spawn has zero effect on the smallmouth population which is why they opened up their catch and immediate release season.  ...

 

One might conclude from this that the regulators, upon reviewing the studies, judged that there was still enough uncertainty around potential impacts that a conservative approach was warranted – otherwise why require immediate release? The immediate release regulation prohibits conventional tournament formats, which the OP is asking about.

[J Francho]

Political pressure from groups that want to see the old system stay in place, and the money involved with added cost of enforcing creel limits year round are two other reasons that havwe nothing to do with science.

[MickD]

On 2/4/2021 at 11:36 AM, J Francho said:

Short answer: Nope.  Any issues with population health aren't due to tournaments, even tournaments with less than stellar mortality rates.

Most tournaments are not held during the spawn for a good reason.  Take bass off the spawning bed and relocate them and you are guaranteeing a failure of that bed.  The research is clear.  If  you see tourneys during the spawn you are seeing damage to the population.  

[fissure_man]

3 hours ago, J Francho said:

Political pressure from groups that want to see the old system stay in place, and the money involved with added cost of enforcing creel limits year round are two other reasons that havwe nothing to do with science.

Isn’t the concern of those groups the perceived risk to the fishery? I wouldn’t say that has nothing to do with science, as there isn’t a scientific consensus on the subject. Population-level impacts are tough to study and correlate to specific variables, so the uncertainty remains (and in that circumstance, politically, maintaining the status quo is less risky than trying something new).

 

As for enforcement, would it be much more effort to check for <6 bass in a livewell, vs zero bass in the livewell? The officers need to be out there to enforce all the other regulations anyway.

 

Don’t get me wrong, I’m as frustrated as anybody by regulations that aren’t supported by science or common sense. Parts of Ontario have long had a closed season for bass fishing that extends from December to nearly the end of June, ostensibly to protect spawners. Only a small window of that time represents the actual spawning period, and in our colder bodies of water the closed season can miss the spawn entirely. It’s been that way as long as I’ve been fishing, but finally, based on recent, local research documenting actual spawning dates, the seasons have been adjusted on Lake O (pre-spawn CIR for LM and SM, earlier regular season start for LM, later regular season start for SM). Nice to see a regulation change supported by proper research, and I hope similar research can drive more changes, including opening up fishing during the spawn wherever fisheries can support it.

[J Francho]

In NY, the concerns brought on by Region 6 director aren't based on any hard data. Despite studies and data that contradicts his opinion, that region is still closed. Fishing has actually gotten better since opening catch and release in the rest of the state. 
 

There will always be a shortage of enforcement, and any enforcement in place is more concerned with the put and take salmonoid fishery. Bass are second class citizens. 

[Logan S]

Most of the very best bass fisheries in the world have no closed seasons and heavy tournament pressure year-round.  They have been that way for decades too.  

 

Obviously there could be some specific scenarios on specific lakes where tournaments might be problematic...But generally speaking I don't believe tournaments harm fisheries.  

 

Tournaments should still be run with an emphasis on fish care and follow best practices though....And organizations/directors that are negligent in this area should face some consequences (like denied future permits, etc).  

[Swinghead]

They say 90% of the fish live in 10% of the lake. With electronics advancing its making it impossible for the fish to hide. You can watch boat after boat hitting these areas non stop. Fishing pressure is also getting much heavier every year. Kentucky lake and Barkley have many tournaments every week. There’s no way this pressure isn’t having effects. I just wish they had all tournaments catch and release. 

[roadwarrior]

6 hours ago, Swinghead said:

I just wish they had all tournaments catch and release. 

Well, there may be some local tournaments that allow participants to keep

fish (kids charity tournaments come to mind), 99.9% are always catch and 

release.

[Logan S]

8 hours ago, Swinghead said:

They say 90% of the fish live in 10% of the lake. With electronics advancing its making it impossible for the fish to hide. You can watch boat after boat hitting these areas non stop. Fishing pressure is also getting much heavier every year. Kentucky lake and Barkley have many tournaments every week. There’s no way this pressure isn’t having effects. I just wish they had all tournaments catch and release. 

You already identified KY Lake's primary issue in your first post....And all tournaments are catch and release, most just release them later and in a different spot .  

 

On 2/4/2021 at 10:45 AM, Swinghead said:

In Kentucky and Barkley we face the Asian carp issues....

You've got a freight train barreling down on you but you're focused on a gnat buzzing by your ear.  Tournaments or not, KY Lake is going to be in bad shape until this issue reaches an equilibrium point or is somehow mitigated by your DNR (which is probably impossible).  Maybe regulating tournaments during this time where the lake is struggling is a good idea, but tournaments didn't put the lake in this condition.  

 

Obviously I'll add the disclaimer that this all my opinion and I'm not a scientist etc, etc, etc...But I've seen this similar scenario play out on my home waters multiple times so I do have some perspective on the 'tournaments vs larger issues' topic.  The larger issues are much harder to deal with so people tend to block them out and tournaments end up on the chopping block.   

[Hawkeye21]

On 2/4/2021 at 12:07 PM, gimruis said:

Interesting debate.  In some water bodies here in MN, there are physical areas buoyed off while bass are spawning and it is illegal to fish there.  Its not very common, but I've seen it.

 

Our bass season here doesn't start until May but most bass haven't spawned by the time the season starts anyways so the argument that the season is closed before that is moot.  I think its just more of a technicality so that it can start the same day as walleye and pike season.

 

If tournaments are pulling spawning fish off beds then can't you simply switch to an immediate catch and release format like they are do in MLF?  Then the fish can immediately go back to its bed.

 

Whether tournaments held during spawn affect the population negatively or not, there's no doubt that the quantity of tournaments make it tougher to fish.  Angling pressure has definitely made fish smarter.  The local example here is Mille Lacs Lake.  It has gotten absolutely pounded since the Elites held 2 years of AOY in a row here.

Most of MN and WI regulations are designed to protect walleye, not bass.  It's ridiculous that they have a bass season in those states.

[gim]

Wisconsin actually removed their closed season last year so now its catch and release all year round (in addition to the legal harvest season).  There is a proposal in the legislature right now in Minnesota to do the same thing but I am very doubtful that it passes (at least this year).  There is also a proposal to ban all lead in fishing tackle that is 2.5 inches in length or less in the jig and sinker category.  That one has a better chance of passing IMO

[Hawkeye21]

Going to catch and release makes much more sense.

[redux]

Making sight fishing illegal would not work. Why? Guys can find fish, mark them (electrinically or with land marks, twigs, grass, etc), back off until they are out of sight, and then cast to them. Boyd talked about this a few months ago in a Bass Talk Live interview when asked.

[catchandreleasez]

I think tournaments is the worst thing that ever happened to bass fishing.  They should all be catch and release but all these hot dogs have to hold up their fish at weigh in.  Ridiculous!

[Swinghead]

On 2/10/2021 at 5:13 AM, roadwarrior said:

Well, there may be some local tournaments that allow participants to keep

fish (kids charity tournaments come to mind), 99.9% are always catch and 

release.

I mean at the spot of the catch. Now they can pull them off beds and take them miles away. Just keeping them in the livewell that long can kill a lot of fish. 

On 10/27/2023 at 1:25 AM, catchandreleasez said:

I think tournaments is the worst thing that ever happened to bass fishing.  They should all be catch and release but all these hot dogs have to hold up their fish at weigh in.  Ridiculous!

And now crappie tournaments are getting much more popular. With livescope this is going to be worse than the bass tournaments. 

[gim]

36 minutes ago, Swinghead said:

And now crappie tournaments are getting much more popular. With livescope this is going to be worse than the bass tournaments. 

I guess I am not sure if most crappie tournaments are catch and release like bass ones are.  I know there is a professional crappie tour of fishing.  I've seen the weigh ins on TV.  I fish in a spring crappie contest every May and you just weigh in one fish per person.  It has to be alive at the weigh in, but they let you do whatever you want with it after you weigh it.  I release mine.  They have a large tank right by the scale that you can drop the fish in too, and then they are released later.

 

Walleye tournaments are very popular up here, more popular than bass ones.  Before the pandemic, most of them were live weigh in versions.  During the pandemic, there was a need to avoid having crowds and gatherings of people so they went to a CPR format instead - catch, photo (length), release.  Just like kayak bass tournaments are where you take a photo of the fish on a measuring board.  It was so popular after the pandemic ended, they just kept doing it.  Now virtually every walleye tournament is like this.  And believe me, if there was ever a meat-hunting demographic of fishermen, its walleye anglers.  If the walleye crowd can do it, anyone can.

[Darth-Baiter]

I don't even watch tournaments.  I can't get on board.

 

that double fisting two fish in each hand pic I see occasionally...mmm..

 

not my jam, so I just stay away.  all I can do, is do what I like and want.    I think pulling a spawning bass off a bed and relocating her has to affect numbers.  it's not a deer where she has 1-2 babies..and we can't shoot deer during that time of year.  a bass has LOTS of babies.  fish rely on the numbers game.  to outnumber their odds against them.

[TnRiver46]

They’ve only had tourneys for 50 years and the fish keep

getting bigger 

[gim]

34 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

They’ve only had tourneys for 50 years and the fish keep

getting bigger 

 

Not in the Sabine River.  That venue is full of nothing but dinks.  "Ain't no big bass in the Sabine" says @Catt

[TnRiver46]

2 hours ago, gimruis said:

 

Not in the Sabine River.  That venue is full of nothing but dinks.  "Ain't no big bass in the Sabine" says @Catt

Yea but they’ve stayed the same size all this time