Damage from tournaments

[Darth-Baiter]

Clearlake is a mere shadow of the lake it used to be.  

[Susky River Rat]

I think all the fishing pressure changes the fishes habits. I am not saying fish do not die from tournament fishing. It will make you have to fish completely different than you normally would. Unless the trap net and or electro fishing studies are down I would not worry about population. Fishing will be harder but the numbers of fish are there.

[fishingtx]

7 hours ago, gimruis said:

 

Not in the Sabine River.  That venue is full of nothing but dinks.  "Ain't no big bass in the Sabine" says @Catt

Depends if you're talking up which part. Up in the North East parts of Texas I've caught some absolute studs (5-8lbs) in the river. Down on the gulf where the Elite series was this year is very different. The biggest I've ever seen dragged outta down there was a 6lber. The reason isn't because of tournament angling. It's the almost yearly hurricanes, harsh conditions of brackish water, blowing out from dam release, and the large amount of predators and competition found in the river. You can be bass fishing in that river and catch all kinds of inshore saltwater fish, especially reds and gaftops.

On 2/10/2021 at 1:44 PM, Hawkeye21 said:

Going to catch and release makes much more sense.

The damage would still be existent. Arguably worse. This is not my view, however , bringing in dead fish at tournaments can be seen by some as population management. Lots of lakes in the country suffer from having to much catch and release and the fish populations may grow but fish size will decrease due to competition. I hate when I see dead fish at weigh ins but you don't see enough to hurt anything or benefit anything.

[Glenn]

Now, despite booming bass fisheries in recent decades, this myth refuses to die. Anglers and managers opposed to tournaments for one reason or another propagate the idea that excessive mortality hurts fishing quality. Now in defense of competition, one only needs to check the weights caught at waters fished constantly by tournaments by competitors for decades and see what those lakes are like. For example, Grand Lake in Oklahoma, Kentucky Lake, Lake Seminole, Lake Minnetonka, Sam Rayburn, Fork to name a few, I mean these catches on these lakes typically are as good as they are today as they've been in the past if not even better. And those lakes get hammered by tournaments.

 

Rayburn hosts some 300 tournaments a year, for example, and has done so for decades. More than half of the anglers that live around there participate in tournaments. But it's funny, a recent tagging study they did, they found that tournament mortality contributed from 1% to 16% of total annual mortality or the large amount of population while non-tournament catch and release fishing was 2% to 17% of the total. And angler harvest actually keeping the fish that comprise 16% to 38% of bass mortality, obviously because they're keeping the fish.

 

What I'm saying here is in this study, it was the tournament angling that had the least effect on the population of bass. So fishing pressure, no doubt makes bass harder to catch but blame cannot be placed solely on tournaments.

[MN Fisher]

14 minutes ago, Glenn said:

Lake Minnetonka, ---- I mean these catches on these lakes typically are as good as they are today as they've been in the past if not even better. And those lakes get hammered by tournaments.

Tonka has about 10-12 bass tournaments a season - that's one tournament every week-and-a-half from May (season opener) through September (it gets a bit chilly after that). Going back through results (DNR keeps track) the average bag and big fish really hasn't changed much in the last 10-15 years.

 

And we've had big tournaments too - remember BASS Top 100 back in the 80s and 90s? One leg was on Tonka...and they set a couple trail records here.

 

A yearly tournament here that draws names is Denny's Super 30 - Dean and Ted Capra (Of Capra's Sporting Goods) are in the top 10 all time money makers in that one...and this local guy name of Seth Feider is #3 on the list.

 

Bassin is still good on the lake as shown by ones pictured by @gimruis, @Deephaven and myself.

[fishingtx]

20 minutes ago, Glenn said:

Rayburn hosts some 300 tournaments a year, for example, and has done so for decades. More than half of the anglers that live around there participate in tournaments. But it's funny, a recent tagging study they did, they found that tournament mortality contributed from 1% to 16% of total annual mortality or the large amount of population while non-tournament catch and release fishing was 2% to 17% of the total. ........

What I'm saying here is in this study, it was the tournament angling that had the least effect on the population of bass. So fishing pressure, no doubt makes bass harder to catch but blame cannot be placed solely on tournaments.

Couldn't agree more. In addition, on Rayburn you can definitely tell the effects of fish pressure. Fish simply won't bite on Saturdays as good as during the week. Some people who don't fish the lake think that this is just angler's suspicion, it is definitely not. I've had many times on the water with 20-75 fish days during the week days or on sunday nights, but never had a day above 50 on a saturday.

[gim]

@MN Fisher while I do agree that the bass fishing is still quite good on Lake Minnetonka, it has become MUCH more difficult than it used to be.  I fished it a lot when I was a kid back in the late 90's and early 2000's.  Catching bass (and muskies) out there wasn't that hard.  No finesse fishing required.  Chuck and wind, catch fish.

 

It underwent a transformation about 10-15 years ago though.  The water became very clear and milfoil took over the lake.  Ultra clear water combined with endless fishing pressure makes bass very hard to catch.  They move deeper and become wary.  Quite honestly, I am not that good of a bass angler compared to the guys that fish it regularly, and I don't like to fish amongst a crowd either, whether that be other anglers or recreational boats.  Plus, my least favorite approach is finesse fishing.  I would much rather power fish.  So I avoid fishing out there from Memorial Day through Labor Day, when pressure and boating is at its highest.  I focus my efforts on smaller, less pressured lakes.  It usually pays off.  If I went out there on a Saturday in June and fished amongst the crowds, I would very likely have poor results.

 

I will say that the crappie fishing out there in the spring is by far the best in the area though.  The quantity and quality is both there.  It receives a lot of winter ice fishing pressure and spring fishing pressure, and continues to produce quality crappie fishing every season for me.

 

I was listening to the radio this summer one morning on my way to the lake and Seth Feider was a guest on KFAN outdoors.  They asked him about Lake Minnetonka and he fully admitted that he would get his butt whipped out there right now because of how the lake has changed.  Plus he said he just doesn't fish it as often as he used to either.  If Seth knows he would struggle out there, I know I would too.

[TOXIC]

The difference between scientific studies and opinions is almost always opposite.  No different than eliminating the seasonal dates for smallmouth on lake St Clair.  Opinions said it would ruin the fish population because it would be legal to catch them off the spawning beds resulting in higher bed mortality from gobies and other predators eating eggs and fry, delayed mortality from stress catching them during the spawn and on and on….Scientific studies showed the approved year round open season with immediate catch and release during the spawn did not adversely affect the spawn or the population for a number of documented reasons.  Nonetheless, you will never convince some that the studies are correct.  

[gim]

3 minutes ago, TOXIC said:

Opinions said it would ruin the fish population because it would be legal to catch them off the spawning beds resulting in higher bed mortality from gobies and other predators eating eggs and fry, delayed mortality from stress catching them during the spawn and on and on….Scientific studies showed the approved year round open season with immediate catch and release during the spawn did not adversely affect the spawn or the population for a number of documented reasons.

 

Yes, but hauling them in a livewell to a weigh-in location miles away while they're in the active reproduction process certainly is detrimental.

 

This is why immediate catch and release formats are beneficial while they are spawning.

[Team9nine]

I’m not certain on the damage from tournaments, especially since they've long banned “trolling,” which is an obvious potent fish catching tactic 😉 

 

 

[AlabamaSpothunter]

Man I'd love to see the ban on trolling lifted.   

 

I'll never understand that rule outside of maybe banning it simply because it's boring to watch.  

 

Takes as much skill to troll as anything imho.   You can learn so much more about Bass by trolling as well.   

 

It will remain to boggle my mind that FFS is legal all the while trolling and A-Rigs are illegal.   If only the A-Rig, and trolling had a multi billion dollar company backing them 😆

[Mike L]

48 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

I’m not certain on the damage from tournaments, especially since they've long banned “trolling,” which is an obvious potent fish catching tactic 😉 

 

 

When I first saw that also I was ready to respond 

Then I said it’s not worth it
 

 

 

 

 

Mike

[TnRiver46]

If tourneys haven’t killed florida by now, I say it’s completely impossible. Every member on here that lives in FLA calls the fishing excellent 

[gim]

1 hour ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

I'll never understand that rule outside of maybe banning it simply because it's boring to watch.  

The issue with trolling is that the number of lines that are legal may vary from state to state.  Some states seemingly allow about 8 lines and others are limited to 1.  Technology like live sonar is still legal in every state, last I checked anyways.

[AlabamaSpothunter]

2 minutes ago, gimruis said:

The issue with trolling is that the number of lines that are legal may vary from state to state.  Some states seemingly allow about 8 lines and others are limited to 1.  Technology like live sonar is still legal in every state, last I checked anyways.

Good points, but they could simply draw up guidelines for those items that fall in compliance of state/fed laws, or better every derby follows the state laws it's in.....so for example when they fish in Alabama, they could use 5 hooked A-Rigs.   Limit trolling to a single line in the water, etc.  

 

They already do this now with a bunch of things.....you can't have a rod over 8' IIrc.  

[J Francho]

Let's get our history straight. Trolling is banned because of Buck Perry and long rods because of Dee Thomas. You can debate the "unfair advantage" thing but they were so darn good at what they did, rules were put into place. 

This has zero to do with tournaments ruining fisheries - they don't. 

[gim]

27 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

Good points, but they could simply draw up guidelines for those items that fall in compliance of state/fed laws, or better every derby follows the state laws it's in.

 

I agree. But when an angler breaks a state law, who's gonna then be responsible?  The organization like BASS/MLF/BPT or the angler themself?

 

I seem to recall when MLF had an event here Sept 2022 and a couple anglers used two lines at once on camera.  That one got shoved under the rug.  The fines were paid and that was the end of it.  The anglers said that MLF never informed them of the rule, and MLF said it was the responsibility of each angler to follow state law.

 

When you have 50 states, you have 50 sets of rules.  What's legal in one state may not be in another.  If they wanted to permit trolling, maybe have a universal set of rules to follow so that its legal in every state they have an event in.  In that case, it would be limited to ONE line per angler.

[MN Fisher]

6 minutes ago, gimruis said:

I agree. But when an angler breaks a state law, who's gonna then be responsible?  The organization like BASS/MLF/BPT or the angler themself?

Personally - I think both should be dinged. The angler for not being up on local regulations, and the organizer for not making sure the anglers know the local laws.

 

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

[AlabamaSpothunter]

7 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

Personally - I think both should be dinged. The angler for not being up on local regulations, and the organizer for not making sure the anglers know the local laws.

 

"Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

Yeah the NPFL had a winner this year DQ'd because he didn't have a fishing license.....imagine losing a $100k over a fishing license.    

[gim]

10 minutes ago, AlabamaSpothunter said:

imagine losing a $100k over a fishing license.    

 

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, gimruis said:

 

I agree. But when an angler breaks a state law, who's gonna then be responsible?  The organization like BASS/MLF/BPT or the angler themself?

 

I seem to recall when MLF had an event here Sept 2022 and a couple anglers used two lines at once on camera.  That one got shoved under the rug.  The fines were paid and that was the end of it.  The anglers said that MLF never informed them of the rule, and MLF said it was the responsibility of each angler to follow state law.

 

When you have 50 states, you have 50 sets of rules.  What's legal in one state may not be in another.  If they wanted to permit trolling, maybe have a universal set of rules to follow so that its legal in every state they have an event in.  In that case, it would be limited to ONE line per angler.

Easy answer, the organization is responsible for nothing. If anyone goes fishing, they are responsible for their actions not someone telling them the rules 

[gim]

12 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Easy answer, the organization is responsible for nothing. If anyone goes fishing, they are responsible for their actions not someone telling them the rules 

I agree, but that's not exactly what occurred after the fact.  MLF pointed fingers at the anglers and the anglers pointed fingers at the organization.  The anglers specifically stated that the organization is responsible for communicating state rules that differ from other states prior to an event, and they claim they were not informed.  So I don't know who was at fault after that debacle.

[TnRiver46]

I do! The anglers. It matters not what their organization tells them 

[Mike L]

31 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

I do! The anglers. It matters not what their organization tells them 

Exactly right!

Just like you’re supposed to know the rules of the road whenever you drive. 

 

Claiming ignorance of something you’re supposed to know and then blame someone else, is just an excuse to not accept responsibility for your actions 
 

 

 

 

 

 

Mike
 

[J Francho]

Meh. I don't think a couple pros misinterpreting the rules causes any decline in a fishery. 
 

Another off topic point. I can kill trolling with one line out. Doesn't ruin a fishery. 
 

Oh yeah, what's the hard data say about poaching and the health of a fishery?  What about lawn treatment? Or weed treatment in the water itself? Farming runoff? Industry? Dams? Nuke plants? Seems like fishing is a drop in the bucket and focusing on it as the sole cause is myopic.