Scientific Bass Information

[RyanCastin]

Hello everybody! Being a bass angler who is also an environmental science major (graduating this year), I am very intrigued to hear the scientific information regarding to LMB behavior and ecology! 

To start the thread I am currently in a freshwater ecology class, in our massive textbook there was a section on water color in relation to productivity of the lake. Crystal blue lakes are not as productive (in terms of the whole ecosystem) as green or brown waters. These differences in water colors mean that there are differences in spectral quality with depth (light does not penetrate the same in different water colors - and therefore, colors are perceived differently at each depth).This section was followed by a short section about fishing lures. It stated that the colors of our lures are almost never perceived the same as they are to us once. As an example, red lures are still perceived as red lures appear as red because they absorb the blue and green light while reflecting red. BUT, red light does not penetrate deep into lakes. Therefore to a diver or fish in 5 meters of water a red lure would appear black. Lures also are perceived as different colors in oligotrophic lakes and eutrophic lakes (this depends on the productivity of the lake and therefore, color of the water). A white lure would be perceived as blue 10 meters under the surface in a oligotrophic lake but would appear green in a eutrophic lake 1 meter under water. This is due to the predominant spectrum of light that reaches different depths. Therefore, colors of lures are more designed to appeal to us as fisherman rather than the fish themselves. 

 

I am not saying that certain colors don't appeal more to fish, but they do not perceive them the same as we think they do - specifically with more depth, the colors typically show to the fish as black. This gives me a reason to think why reflective clear/white lures are so effective at any depth - the reflection (resembling fish scales) attracts the fish more than the color.

[Whatever]

Well said, Sir!

As a former State Fisheries Technician, I applaud your insight.

[RyanCastin]

8 minutes ago, RyanCastin said:

Hello everybody! Being a bass angler who is also an environmental science major (graduating this year), I am very intrigued to hear the scientific information regarding to LMB behavior and ecology! 

To start the thread I am currently in a freshwater ecology class, in our massive textbook there was a section on water color in relation to productivity of the lake. Crystal blue lakes are not as productive (in terms of the whole ecosystem) as green or brown waters. These differences in water colors mean that there are differences in spectral quality with depth (light does not penetrate the same in different water colors - and therefore, colors are perceived differently at each depth).This section was followed by a short section about fishing lures. It stated that the colors of our lures are almost never perceived the same as they are to us once. As an example, red lures are still perceived as red lures appear as red because they absorb the blue and green light while reflecting red. BUT, red light does not penetrate deep into lakes. Therefore to a diver or fish in 5 meters of water a red lure would appear black. Lures also are perceived as different colors in oligotrophic lakes and eutrophic lakes (this depends on the productivity of the lake and therefore, color of the water). A white lure would be perceived as blue 10 meters under the surface in a oligotrophic lake but would appear green in a eutrophic lake 1 meter under water. This is due to the predominant spectrum of light that reaches different depths. Therefore, colors of lures are more designed to appeal to us as fisherman rather than the fish themselves. 

 

I am not saying that certain colors don't appeal more to fish, but they do not perceive them the same as we think they do - specifically with more depth, the colors typically show to the fish as black. This gives me a reason to think why reflective clear/white lures are so effective at any depth - the reflection (resembling fish scales) attracts the fish more than the color.

Sorry for the few typos - I was trying to get a lot of information down quickly.

[TimTheGearNerd]

For some reason, chartreuse does well in Texas with 3 FOV. Definitely didn’t run a scientific study. I wonder if you have any opinion about chartreuse? Does it just show up as black as well? 

[BrianMDTX]

43 minutes ago, RyanCastin said:

Therefore, colors of lures are more designed to appeal to us as fisherman rather than the fish themselves. 

 

Like camo for hunters. 

[RyanCastin]

28 minutes ago, Tim Hu said:

For some reason, chartreuse does well in Texas with 3 FOV. Definitely didn’t run a scientific study. I wonder if you have any opinion about chartreuse? Does it just show up as black as well? 

Not so sure about chartreuse because it wasn't mentioned in the section, however I would imagine that it appears as a bright green as it mixes with the green and/or blue light that penetrates the water.

[Backroad Angler]

Congratulations  on graduating soon!

I am graduating this semester and am a criminal justice major with my minor in environmental science! Those ES classes sure are something else, I'll tell you what.

[RyanCastin]

2 minutes ago, RyanCastin said:

Not so sure about chartreuse because it wasn't mentioned in the section, however I would imagine that it appears as a bright green as it mixes with the green and/or blue light that penetrates the water.

Also, with more depth the bright green likely appears as darker shades of green at greater depths. Eventually it would appear as black at certain depths as only 25% of light penetrates into depths of 10m.

1 minute ago, JoshFromBolo said:

Congratulations  on graduating soon!

I am graduating this semester and am a criminal justice major with my minor in environmental science! Those ES classes sure are something else, I'll tell you what.

Congrats to you too! And yeah environmental classes can be tough, luckily i've had some great professors at Regis University. Also for the major I've had to take lots of biology and ecology courses.

[Michigander]

What is a good source for scholarly articles on largemouth, crayfish, and vegetation? My wife is a professor so she might have access to her college's academic logins if that helps.

[WRB]

Be aware of internet data, it’s mostly subjective.

This will seem non scientific data but read Bill Murphy’s In Pursuit of Giant Bass book. Murphy ideas my seem strange however his references to John Lembeck electro tracking studies and the behavior traits are sound.

Murphy was a trophy bass angler that I knew, we were in the same Pisces’s bass clubland a dental technician who duplicated whiteness of teeth. The color white is very complex to replicate exactly.  Murph’s book he has a chapter on color and concludes when you think you know bass the green fish always surprise you.

Bill painted 10 of same diving crank baits using to his trained eye under controlled lighting the same color shade of white from 10 different suppliers. One caught more bass then the others so he repainted the 9 using the same brand and shade of white paint. The results were 8 of 10 caught bass. White is white or is it? 

We don’t know how the basses brain interpreted color spectrum wave length.

Tom

 

 

[RyanCastin]

3 minutes ago, Michigander said:

What is a good source for scholarly articles on largemouth, crayfish, and vegetation? My wife is a professor so she might have access to her college's academic logins if that helps.

There are many great sources. If you can get access to your wifes academic logins, the library for the school should have access to many large databases. I use my schools library databases and go to the biological sciences or ecological sciences databases and there will be hundreds or even thousands of articles depending on the keywords you put in. Hope that helps! If you need more info I can see if there are any free databases for the public to access!

[Michigander]

Just now, RyanCastin said:

There are many great sources. If you can get access to your wifes academic logins, the library for the school should have access to many large databases. I use my schools library databases and go to the biological sciences or ecological sciences databases and there will be hundreds or even thousands of articles depending on the keywords you put in. Hope that helps! If you need more info I can see if there are any free databases for the public to access!

What would be some starter keywords? Normal English probably isn't optimized for that search engine.

[RyanCastin]

2 minutes ago, WRB said:

We aware of internet data, it’s mostly subjective.

This will seem non scientific data but read Bill Murphy’s In Pursuit of Giant Bass book. Murphy ideas my seem strange however his references to John Lembeck electro tracking studies and the behavior traits are sound.

Murphy was a trophy bass angler that I knew, we were in the same Pisces’s bass clubland a dental technician who duplicated whiteness of teeth. The color white is very complex to replicate exactly.  Murph’s book he has a capture on color and concludes when you think you know bass the green fish always surprise you.

Bill painted 10 of same diving crank baits using to his trained eye under controlled lighting the same color shade of white from 10 different suppliers. One caught more bass then the others so he repainted the 9 using the same brand and Shad of white paint. The results were 8 of 10 caught bass. White is white or is it? 

We don’t know how the bases brain interpreted color spectrum wave length.

Tom

 

 

I completely agree with this! Bass, like all creatures a very adapted to their environments and use many different sensory queues than us humans use. However, with studies of the bass' behavior and reactions to different colors (or in this case, shades of a color) we can get a feel for how bass perceive color. Knowing that most bait fish are also adapted to their environments (and predators), they have evolved camouflages to help evade predators. However, in response to this bass have evolved advanced strategies to help detect these camouflaged colors. Therefore, my hypothesis would be that the colors bass are most attracted to are colors that are easily perceivable or colors which they have adaptations to detect.

7 minutes ago, Michigander said:

What would be some starter keywords? Normal English probably isn't optimized for that search engine.

I would start simple with some normal phrases like "largemouth bass" and if that doesn't work use their scientific name "Micropterus salmoides" followed by words that you are interested in learning about such as "behavior", "adaptations", "feeding", "foraging", etc. This should give you lots of results. Also entering just the species name will bring up every study (in the database) that mentions those words.

 

 

[scaleface]

https://www.fatguppyfishing.com/single-post/2016/1/7/Selecting-Lure-Colors-for-Successful-Fishing

[Glenn]

45 minutes ago, Michigander said:

What is a good source for scholarly articles on largemouth, crayfish, and vegetation?

 

Here's a deep collection of articles on largemouth and smallmouth behavior, as well as aquatic ecosystems, food chains, water quality, fish stocking, and habitat.

 

https://www.bassresource.com/fish-facts

https://www.bassresource.com/lake-management

 

 

[Michigander]

1 minute ago, Glenn said:

 

Here's a deep collection of articles on largemouth and smallmouth behavior, as well as aquatic ecosystems, food chains, water quality, fish stocking, and habitat.

 

https://www.bassresource.com/fish-facts

https://www.bassresource.com/lake-management

 

 

Thanks, Glenn! I have read those before but with winter upon us, I will read them again!

[RyanCastin]

Also wanted to recommend the book: Through the Fish’s Eye: An Angler’s Guide to Gamefish Behavior. It is filled with factual scientific information about largemouth bass as well as almost every other popular game fish. It can be bought on Amazon very cheap. This book tremendously improved my knowledge of fish biology, ecology, and behavioral ecology. I highly recommend this book to anybody who is interested in learning A LOT more about aquatic ecosystems. It is a great book to start with if you are looking to get into some scientific information about your favorite game fish!

[soflabasser]

Sometimes a unique color can trigger a reaction bite. Most of the time what matters most is how you present the lure and where you present the lure.

[trout123]

A little of topic but Im thinking of studying Fisheries Biology (I think thats what its called) in college. Do you know what its like and if it is a good major? I want to do something in the field and not sit infront of a computer as much as I can lol.

[gim]

On 1/28/2021 at 7:13 PM, BrianMDTX said:

Like camo for hunters. 

More specifically, deer hunters.

 

Turkeys and ducks see the full color spectrum so camo is definitely needed.

[Catt]

[MGF]

I used to design light and color measurement systems so I can speak to the science of color some. The sun gives off a well know spectrum...range of wave lengths. Anything that light passes through acts as a filter and blocks some wave lengths more than other...changing the "color". Our x, y, z color definitions are literally based on the performance of the human eye in experiments done long ago.

 

Additionally different animals see differently...I think deer see blues the best, some animals are mostly color blind etc. I don't know about fish.

 

As a former avid scuba diver I can tell you that by the time you get 30 or 40 ft down a beautiful coral reef is colorless unless you bring a light to shine on it. I used to bring a bunch of colored discs under water to demonstrate to students. Of course not all people perceive color the same  the same.

 

Of course it doesn't look the same to the fish as it does to you. 

 

The very term "color" implies some subjectivity. A completely objective description would  be raw energy numbers obtained with a radiospectrometer. The conversion to color coordinates is an attempt to predict how a human would perceive it.

 

 

[MGF]

On 1/28/2021 at 8:43 PM, WRB said:

Be aware of internet data, it’s mostly subjective.

This will seem non scientific data but read Bill Murphy’s In Pursuit of Giant Bass book. Murphy ideas my seem strange however his references to John Lembeck electro tracking studies and the behavior traits are sound.

Murphy was a trophy bass angler that I knew, we were in the same Pisces’s bass clubland a dental technician who duplicated whiteness of teeth. The color white is very complex to replicate exactly.  Murph’s book he has a chapter on color and concludes when you think you know bass the green fish always surprise you.

Bill painted 10 of same diving crank baits using to his trained eye under controlled lighting the same color shade of white from 10 different suppliers. One caught more bass then the others so he repainted the 9 using the same brand and shade of white paint. The results were 8 of 10 caught bass. White is white or is it? 

We don’t know how the basses brain interpreted color spectrum wave length.

Tom

 

 

It's not that complicated with appropriate measurement equipment. If I wanted to do such a study I would start by sending color samples to a lab to find out what the real colors are. The technology goes way back and I don't think it would be terribly expensive.

 

 

[TnRiver46]

10 hours ago, trout123 said:

A little of topic but Im thinking of studying Fisheries Biology (I think thats what its called) in college. Do you know what its like and if it is a good major? I want to do something in the field and not sit infront of a computer as much as I can lol.

I studied wildlife/fisheries management, very fun. Ours was geared more toward wildlife than fish but most classes were outside and we travelled all over the southeast to different wildlife management areas 

[bulldog1935]

Back to that red lure discussion - where pink and red lures become important is low angle sunlight, both early and late - rather than reflected light, the fish see light transmitted through the baitfish insides - the blood in the baitfish acting like a lens filter.