micro guides How Micro Guides Would Effect Casting Distance?

[ATA]

I was wondering how micro guides can effect casting distance. I know if you have leader it will not be a good thing to have, But lets say you use no leader, Is micro guide can make you cast farther?

[WRB]

Enough guides to prevent the line hitting the rod blank during the casting motion.

Tom

[Michigander]

"They" say that the micro guides reduce line slap thus preventing some kinetic energy being robbed from the lure in flight. However, I think that you're going to get that from a properly spaced, sized, and reduced guide train anyway.

 

I think they are mostly for weight reduction forward of the reel seat and the benefits that that provides.

[bowhunter63]

I remember when Shimano had there beast series rods out. They were great rods with big guides so you could cast father. Now Micro is the way to go. I have a Carbon light with some smaller guides . Never seen much difference 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

99% of the benefit of micro guides is weight savings in the tip leading to increased sensitivity. The resulting crispness probably aids casting to a degree but it’s an ancillary benefit. I don’t buy the line slap theory and “micros” of all but the smallest size will pass a good leader knot. You have to weigh the variables in your application. 

[WRB]

The reason you have more micro guides on casting rods are lower or closer to the rod blank. Adding guides doesn’t reduce weight unless the numbers are equal.

The average 7’ casting rod prior to micro guides had 7 guides, the average micro guide 7’ rod has 9 for example.

Casting distance and or accuracy is only slightly improved with properly arranged micro vs standard guides. Line stiffness/diameter affects distance more then the guide train.

Tom

[jimmyjoe]

1 hour ago, Michigander said:

I think they are mostly for weight reduction forward of the reel seat and the benefits that that provides.

 

   ^^^   Yup.  ^^^                                   jj

[WRB]

The If you want to save weight use 2 guides in lieu 7 to 9.

The reason it’s not done is the line hits the rod blank

Try watching line going through guides in very slow motion if you think line goes through the guide train straight.

The 1st guide has a larger diameter ring to gather the and start to straighten it, the 2 nd guide tames the line whip a little more the balance keeps the line off the blank as much a reasonable.

Tom

[MickD]

I believe that micros do in fact help casting distance some.  I have no data, but my micro rods really seem to cast "a mile."  You knew that was coming, right?  My theory on the advantage is that they get the line arranged into what amounts to a very small cylinder going through the air instead of having bigger loops trying to cut through the air.  I don't think that the difference is compelling, but I think it's there.

 

Regarding knots, as stated above, the right knot will go through micros just fine, unless you're getting into quite heavy leaders.  In that case, the power of the rod probably dictates stronger guides anyway.  I use size  micros on almost all my spin and use 10-20 pound braid with 15 pound test leaders and have no problems.  I use the FG and my "improved" Alberto (which is the Alberto with two half hitches of the tag end around the main braid line to finish the knot after HEAVILY setting it).

 

1 minute ago, WRB said:

Try watching line going through guides in very slow motion

You can see it quite well by casting into the setting or rising sun, too.  Without slo mo.

[Michigander]

I'm a barbarian and use a uni to uni knot and micros are a no-go for my leaders, lol.

[FishTank]

I have them on a couple of rods and don't really see any advantages or disadvantages with them.  

[BrianMDTX]

For the average Joe it probably makes no difference at all. 

[Fishes in trees]

I have 2 micro guide rods.  The are the 6'8" and 7'2" Black Magic Carrot Stix.  These could be the last two Carrot Stix in the country that haven't broke yet.    I primarily use them for throwing soft plastics at objects or throwing jigs.

I like them fine mid-spring through mid-fall.  I think that if I fished with them in the early spring they might ice up, what with the guides being so small,  so I don't even bring it then.   Same for nasty weather in the late fall.

[Michigander]

3 minutes ago, Fishes in trees said:

These could be the last two Carrot Stix in the country that haven't broke yet.

[MickD]

1 hour ago, Michigander said:

I'm a barbarian and use a uni to uni knot and micros are a no-go for my leaders, lol.

You are missing an opportunity for reliable, much smaller knots.  Double unis are easy, reliable, and I use them when I can, but they are much bigger than necessary.   As I stated before, I use leaders up to 15 with size 4 micros with no problems.  

[Michigander]

1 minute ago, MickD said:

You are missing an opportunity for reliable, much smaller knots.  Double unis are easy, reliable, and I use them when I can, but they are much bigger than necessary.   As I stated before, I use leaders up to 15 with size 4 micros with no problems.  

I'm not a wizard with knots so easy + reliable is good enough for me. I know my minimum inner guide ring diameter and I carry on fine. I was using a crazy alberto for a while but after losing some lures on the cast, I said screw it and went back to my heathen knot. It holds strong and I can tie it in the dark, wind, and with frozen fingers.

[BrianMDTX]

19 minutes ago, Michigander said:

I'm not a wizard with knots so easy + reliable is good enough for me. I know my minimum inner guide ring diameter and I carry on fine. I was using a crazy alberto for a while but after losing some lures on the cast, I said screw it and went back to my heathen knot. It holds strong and I can tie it in the dark, wind, and with frozen fingers.

A decent knot you can tie well and have confidence in is worth 10X more than a knot you don’t. 

[MickD]

13 hours ago, Michigander said:

after losing some lures on the cast, I said screw it

I believe I know exactly why that was happening and I believe it is solved with the two half hitches added, after HEAVILY setting the knot.  The heavier the leader the more likely the regular Alberto will fail.  

13 hours ago, Michigander said:

back to my heathen knot.

Do you have a link to show me the knot? thanks,

[Michigander]

5 minutes ago, MickD said:

I believe I know exactly why that was happening and I believe it is solved with the two half hitches added, after HEAVILY setting the knot.  The heavier the leader the more likely the regular Alberto will fail.  

Do you have a link to show me the knot? thanks,

Oh, I don't blame the knot, it was certainly the guy tying it that was at fault. ?

 

Sure, here's a link to the uni to uni: 

 

[MickD]

I thought Heathen was a special knot that I did not know.  I've used the double uni forever, and it's a great knot exc for its size.  I still use it when I don't need the smaller knots.  thanks

[Michigander]

2 minutes ago, MickD said:

I thought Heathen was a special knot that I did not know.  I've used the double uni forever, and it's a great knot exc for its size.  I still use it when I don't need the smaller knots.  thanks

LoL, sorry for the miscommunication. In a world of fancy low profile knots the double uni just seems unsophisticated. I would love to be tying FG knots or similar but I just can't get the hang of it. I practiced all winter a couple years back and couldn't get good enough to use it on the water.

[MickD]

FG is tough to master.  I don't tie it on the water either.  But the Alberto with the half hitches is easy, IMO.  Get some leader and braid and tie a bunch of them watching TV.  One difference between the double uni and the others (FG and Alberto) is that the double uni doesn't care whether you set it heavily or not.  It will simply tighten up on its own under stress.  The other knots, if not heavily set, will unravel.  I submit that the proper way to set the Alberto is to pull it to snug it, then set the leader tag end hard to get the leader loop to close tightly, then go back and set the whole knot  hard again (with spit).  finally add the two half hitches.  With practice the wrapping of the braid around the looped leader becomes very easy.  I use 7 wraps.  Some use 10, but I think the knot gets too long.

[J Francho]

I like smaller guides, but I'm not a fan of the micros.  They're too delicate, knots don't pass a freely as with larger guides, and they do not impact casting in any real world way.  They are light, and look nice, especially spiral wrapped, but you need more on a typical build.

[MickD]

6 hours ago, J Francho said:

I like smaller guides, but I'm not a fan of the micros.  They're too delicate, knots don't pass a freely as with larger guides, and they do not impact casting in any real world way.  They are light, and look nice, especially spiral wrapped, but you need more on a typical build.

I don't think they are delicate at all, never had one fail.  In fact since they are so small they don't get exposed to much of the damage that fails larger guides.  When you have all the guides on the rod and it feels the same as it did without guides you know you've done the right thing for sensitivity.  You don't need any more on a spin build, only a baitcaster with the guides on top.  You mention spiral, you don't need more on a spiral.  The Danek Improved Alberto will pass through all micros with leaders 15 or less, and it's an easy knot to tie.  As far as I am concerned, there is only one disadvantage to micros on a spin, and that is that they will freeze up more readily than a bigger guide.  And since I don't fish when it's freezing. . . moot point for me.  Luckily, I design and build my own, so I can do it like I want regardless of whether it would sell to the general fishing public.

[dodgeguy]

On 1/27/2021 at 3:18 PM, ATA said:

I was wondering how micro guides can effect casting distance. I know if you have leader it will not be a good thing to have, But lets say you use no leader, Is micro guide can make you cast farther?

IMHO they Definately help a little with distance. I don't use leaders.i also feel they help with sensitivity.