Is This a Sound Casting Grip Build?

[Michigander]

Ok, so I like what I am hearing about carbon fiber but I think that woven pattern is awful looking. So I think I'll just cover it in heat shrink. 

 

So is this a sound idea for making a casting grip on a 7'3 MH and a 7'3" H, which will both be bottom contact rods where I want maximum sensitivity and lightest practical weight? Or is this flawed and/or stupid? I figure the EVA butt with rubber/metal cap would lend some butt weight to help with balance.

 

Parts

• Reel Seat:
  • MINIMA Ultra-Lite Exposed Blank Casting Reel Seat
  • My favorite reel seat.
• Grip:
  • CFX Composite Carbon Fiber Grips - Casting Split Grip
• Butt:
  • Split-Grip Fighting Butt with Tenon
• Butt Cap:
  • CRB Handle System Butt Cap MHBC
• Heat Shrink:
  • CRB Smooth Heat Shrink Grip Tubing

 

So you have your parts (don't judge my photo compositing skills, you have faults too)

 

How they would be arranged on the blank:

 

And then with the heat shrink applied, with both shrink ends being tucked under the butt cap and covered by the back of the reel seat for a neat and finished look.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Winn grips would have a similar feel and less work. Another option is the G2 with Bushido finish (matt black)

[Michigander]

2 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Winn grips would have a similar feel and less work. Another option is the G2 with Bushido finish (matt black)

But isn't the big draw of the carbon fiber coming from the rigidity of the grip, which Winn Grips don't have?

 

The G2 stuff is over twice as expensive as this but I did consider it.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

In theory, that’s the idea. In practice...eh. 90% of my grip is on the seat, so that’s where I concentrate. Grip material to me is mostly aesthetic. 

[MickD]

The heat shrink will add a little weight which is the enemy of sensitivity.  Significant difference?  I doubt it, but it's in the wrong direction.

 

Another possibility is to wrap the grips with Winn's tape.  Similar issue, easy, can be removed easily if you don't like them.

 

I personally think the woven appearance of carbon fiber is handsome in a techie way.

 

 

With those components you don't have a lot of surface area for epoxy bonding to the blank.  Are you familiar with prepping the surface of a blank and the components to assure the maximum bond performance of the epoxy?  https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/waterfree.html

 

I took a rod I did many years ago apart and found that while it had not failed, some of the epoxy had not bonded well to the blank and could be chipped off way too easily.  I didn't know about surface prep at that time.

[Michigander]

1 hour ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

In theory, that’s the idea. In practice...eh. 90% of my grip is on the seat,

so that’s where I concentrate. Grip material to me is mostly aesthetic. 

So, hypothetically, if all grips looked the exact same visually, and the only difference was the material, what would be your thought process for choosing a grip? I get that only like a couple inches of my meat mitt of a palm is even touching it while fishing, so I am not even sure what a grip does during active fishing.

41 minutes ago, MickD said:

The heat shrink will add a little weight which is the enemy of sensitivity.  Significant difference?  I doubt it, but it's in the wrong direction.

 

Another possibility is to wrap the grips with Winn's tape.  Similar issue, easy, can be removed easily if you don't like them.

 

I personally think the woven appearance of carbon fiber is handsome in a techie way.

 

 

With those components you don't have a lot of surface area for epoxy bonding to the blank.  Are you familiar with prepping the surface of a blank and the components to assure the maximum bond performance of the epoxy?  https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/waterfree.html

 

I took a rod I did many years ago apart and found that while it had not failed, some of the epoxy had not bonded well to the blank and could be chipped off way too easily.  I didn't know about surface prep at that time.

Yes, I agree the shrink is counterproductive but I figure the weight is minimal and it hides the weave, which I get that a lot of people like but I'm just not into. I feel like Winn tape would be heavier than the shrink tubing but I haven't weighed them. Also, adding the Winn tape destroy the rigidity and would be more work/more expensive than Winn Grips. 

 

Yes, I know about the surface prep, you schooled me on that before my first build and I took it to heart. There's more material than in the image, that reel seat wouldn't even function the way it is shown I don't think. The nut wouldn't move enough to lock the reel.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

13 minutes ago, Michigander said:

So, hypothetically, if all grips looked the exact same visually, and the only difference was the material, what would be your thought process for choosing a grip? I get that only like a couple inches of my meat mitt of a palm is even touching it while fishing, so I am not even sure what a grip does during active fishing.

Yes, I agree the shrink is counterproductive but I figure the weight is minimal and it hides the weave, which I get that a lot of people like but I'm just not into. I feel like Winn tape would be heavier than the shrink tubing but I haven't weighed them. Also, adding the Winn tape destroy the rigidity and would be more work/more expensive than Winn Grips. 

 

Yes, I know about the surface prep, you schooled me on that before my first build and I took it to heart. There's more material than in the image, that reel seat wouldn't even function the way it is shown I don't think. The nut wouldn't move enough to lock the reel.

I play around a lot with grips. I’m doing a light Ned rig/trout spinning rod that will have an up locking vss or more likely a seat tbd with only cork checks and a small fighting butt. I’ve been into motorcycles and custom cars so I like the “go fast” look and vibe of carbon fiber. 

[Michigander]

2 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

I play around a lot with grips. I’m doing a light Ned rig/trout spinning rod that will have an up locking vss or more likely a seat tbd with only cork checks and a small fighting butt. I’ve been into motorcycles and custom cars so I like the “go fast” look and vibe of carbon fiber. 

So it is your opinion that it is all looks and there's no functional difference between materials?

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

I wouldn’t be quite that black and white I don’t stress over it. Depends on the application, my mood, if I’m experimenting, which I do a lot. I’ve used cork, composite cork, burl, carbon skinned, carbon tubes, Eva, Winn and wood. I’d use any again in a given circumstance but would be hard pressed to say definitively what those circumstances would be without it in front of me. 

[Michigander]

Just now, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

I wouldn’t be quite that black and white I don’t stress over it. Depends on the application, my mood, if I’m experimenting, which I do a lot. I’ve used cork, composite cork, burl, carbon skinned, carbon tubes, Eva, Winn and wood. I’d use any again in a given circumstance but would be hard pressed to say definitively what those circumstances would be without it in front of me. 

LOL. I don't mean to press, I'm just a data guy and this rod building thing has a lot of art and feel in it. So if you were building for a guy who's favorite color was black and he wanted to have the best chance of detecting a bite by a ninja bass, what would you pick?

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Lol it’s fine. You’re not pressing and I’m not giving you the run around. Lol I get the tech part to, but so much is anecdotal and/intuition, instead of spitting hairs I wing it. For black, light, sensitive, today I’d say a G2 bushido. Tomorrow you could ask me the same thing and it might well be a black Winn grip. 

[Michigander]

1 minute ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Lol it’s fine. You’re not pressing and I’m not giving you the run around. Lol I get the tech part to, but so much is anecdotal and/intuition, instead of spitting hairs I wing it. For black, light, sensitive, today I’d say a G2 bushido. Tomorrow you could ask me the same thing and it might well be a black Winn grip. 

Well maybe I will just get over it and flip a coin between Winn Grips and the NFC Carbon grips that are on sale for $20 right now. Their pattern is tolerable to my eye.

[bulldog1935]

When Rich Hedenberg (RH Composites) built me a surf rod, I asked him about Winn grips v. shrink-tube over EVA.  He reported bad durability with Winn grips and strongly recommended EVA + shrink.  

[MickD]

14 hours ago, Michigander said:

between Winn Grips and the NFC Carbon grips that are on sale

If you have not yet tried carbon, use this as an opportunity to do so.  Maybe on one rod, then decide on the other.  I have not experienced durability problems with Winn.  The Winn rep I talked with admitted that they don't like DEET, but I'm not sure other materials will like it either.  

[Michigander]

1 minute ago, MickD said:

If you have not yet tried carbon, use this as an opportunity to do so.  Maybe on one rod, then decide on the other.  I have not experienced durability problems with Winn.  The Winn rep I talked with admitted that they don't like DEET, but I'm not sure other materials will like it either.  

Yeah, I ordered the NFC carbon grips last night. I think they are going to be lighter than Winn. I just need to know for myself whether I like them or not so I will roll the dice. 

 

I haven't had any issues with Winn Grips deteriorating either. I think they get kind of a bad reputation coming from the golf world where they do break down due to the club handles rubbing against each other in the golf bag. Our rods don't experience that type of wear.

[NOC 1]

On 1/27/2021 at 9:06 AM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Winn grips would have a similar feel and less work. Another option is the G2 split grips with Bushido finish (matte black).

One of my sons uses the G2 Bushido grips and loves them. Me I prefer the 3K fabric pattern on the G2 full grips. The G2 stuff is very nicely done.

[Michigander]

3 hours ago, NOC 1 said:

One of my sons uses the G2 Bushido grips and loves them. Me I prefer the 3K fabric pattern on the G2 full grips. The G2 stuff is very nicely done.

G2 stuff in the Bushido was on the short list, but due to its weight and cost, I went with NFC EBX grips to see if I like the carbon fiber life.

[spoonplugger1]

The origin reason for graphite sleeved grips was to hide the looks of a bunch of marginal, cheap cork, the foam core came later. Decide what is important to you, set your priorities accordingly and go for it. If you look at the stuff Riley Rods has done for a longtime, you see very little of the Graphite pattern.

[NOC 1]

10 hours ago, spoonplugger1 said:

The origin reason for graphite sleeved grips was to hide the looks of a bunch of marginal, cheap cork, the foam core came later. Decide what is important to you, set your priorities accordingly and go for it. If you look at the stuff Riley Rods has done for a longtime, you see very little of the Graphite pattern.

Perhaps, but the purpose of the AT G2 stuff is to be light and to not kill vibration. It has no foam core, just 2 small arbors in the case of the full grip.

[NOC 1]

13 hours ago, Michigander said:

G2 stuff in the Bushido was on the short list, but due to its weight and cost, I went with NFC EBX grips to see if I like the carbon fiber life.

I've been using the G2 stuff and like it quite  a bit. It is a little heavier I guess, but that never seemed bad to me as most rods over 6'6" end up being tip heavy anyway and they aren't THAT heavy, just a few grams behind the reel. I feel like the foam core on the traditional Fiber grips kills more sensitivity than does the extra couple of grams that the G2 weigh. I do like the way the G2 feel fishing however.

 

That said, I too was looking at some of the NFC stuff and will probably give those a shot at some point. I can't at this point say whether the G2 is better or not, never having tried the Carbontex stuff yet.

[Michigander]

1 hour ago, NOC 1 said:

I've been using the G2 stuff and like it quite  a bit. It is a little heavier I guess, but that never seemed bad to me as most rods over 6'6" end up being tip heavy anyway and they aren't THAT heavy, just a few grams behind the reel. I feel like the foam core on the traditional Fiber grips kills more sensitivity than does the extra couple of grams that the G2 weigh. I do like the way the G2 feel fishing however.

 

That said, I too was looking at some of the NFC stuff and will probably give those a shot at some point. I can't at this point say whether the G2 is better or not, never having tried the Carbontex stuff yet.

I have a third rod that I might splurge on the G2 grips just to try them. Without the direct on-the-water comparisons, I will never truly know unfortunately.

[spoonplugger1]

The lightest, most sensitive grip by far is the grip with no arbors, developed about 10 years ago.

[Michigander]

8 hours ago, spoonplugger1 said:

The lightest, most sensitive grip by far is the grip with no arbors, developed about 10 years ago.

Which is that?

[kayaking_kev]

On 1/28/2021 at 9:16 AM, Michigander said:

Yeah, I ordered the NFC carbon grips last night. I think they are going to be lighter than Winn. I just need to know for myself whether I like them or not so I will roll the dice. 

 

 

I have the NFC Carbon Grips 3KEFX9.75 and they weighed 0.9 oz. or 26 grams on my scales. 

They are going on the X-Ray SJ-736 I got from you in the trade, BTW , Thanks Again!

 

So to update, I have recently built with these 5 Grips.

 

G2 Matte 3K Full Grip / X-Ray MB-736

G2 Bushido Split Grip / X-Ray MB-733

CFX Composite Carbon Fiber Full Grip / X-Ray MB-7109

NFC EFX/CarbonTex Full Grip / X-Ray SJ-736

Winn Grip (Black) Split Grip / Phenix X-10 Composite

 

Unfortunately, the water is hard and I've only had a chance to fish with the Winn Grips so far, so I can't say much except for my preference for their appearances and feel and everyone will have their own preferences.

 

But, I can confirm that the G2 Full Grips only have two small arbor rings in them, and the split grips only have one. I also believe this will allow more of the vibrations to pass through, but I did have one problem on one of the split grip arbors coming loose, but it was probably my fault for not reaming out just a tad bit more. It was a fairly easy remedy though, albeit a messy one, since the arbor was close enough at the bottom to where I could just epoxy it back in place. The rest of the grips have the full foam type arbor all the way through.

 

As far as appearance goes, I think I like the look of the G2 Matte 3K the best, slightly better than the NFC CarbonTex Grips, just because I think the shape of the NFC grips are a little funky looking. But, I do think the NFC soft touch grips feel the best out of Carbon Grips I have. The G2 Bushido grips just look a little plain to me and even a little grayish, instead of the dark black that I like. I like them all though, but won't have a final opinion on them until I'm actual able to fish with them for awhile.

 

If you ask my wife though, who doesn't fish, she will pick the Winn Grips over all of them, go figure!

 

NFC did add a bunch of Carbon Grips and emailed me a Catalog link for anyone interested.

https://northforkcomposites.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/2021_NFC_Grip_Catalogue.pdf?goal=0_e5485418aa-4cd1164e4b-95894270&mc_cid=4cd1164e4b&mc_eid=ede838fd02

[Michigander]

51 minutes ago, kayaking_kev said:

 

I have the NFC Carbon Grips 3KEFX9.75 and they weighed 0.9 oz. or 26 grams on my scales. 

They are going on the X-Ray SJ-736 I got from you in the trade, BTW , Thanks Again!

 

I was planning to build the G2 on the X-Ray I got from you, lol! I ordered the split grip NFC 3KEFXG3.75 kit, so we'll see how those weigh up on the scales when they get here. They have a picture of the grips on a scale on the NFC site but it doesn't have all of the components being weighed together so is of limited value to me.

 

For my sensitive rods, I will have an NFC, a G2, and a Winn Grip setup that will all be similar and used for similar techniques. Hopefully, I can find either a clear winner or supreme confidence in saying that it doesn't matter so I can just go all Winn Grips from here on out, lol.