Crankin rods - moderate vs mod/fast?

[snake95]

When it comes to cranking, when do you like to go with a more moderate action vs. moderate/fast?

 

(I know there is no universal standard for actions, but generally speaking).

 

I get the impression that some anglers prefer a faster action, maybe a moderate/fast, for shallower cranking, for example for squarebills.

 

Any other times you like to use a rod that is more of a moderate/fast for cranking?

 

 

 

[jimmyjoe]

  I like a moderate action for cranks. All the time. I haven't seen every rod on the market (in fact far from it) but of the ones I've seen, I've never seen a moderate/fast action that I would care to use for cranks. Not any brand and not any model.

   One of the reasons is simple: fish seem to spit the hook more often with a M/F than a Moderate action. Why in the heck go to all the work to get a bite and then run a greater risk of losing the fish on the way in?

   Sorry, but it doesn't make sense to me. As usual, YMMV.          jj

[snake95]

32 minutes ago, jimmyjoe said:

of the ones I've seen, I've never seen a moderate/fast action that I would care to use for cranks. Not any brand and not any model.

I tend to agree with you.   

 

It was about 2 years after renewing my interest in bass fishing when I realized fast was not the way to go with cranks. 

 

Of course, cranking means a lot of things to a different people, in different situations: deflecting squarebills, ripping lipless through grass, bouncing off bottom with a DT 6 or a wiggle wart, and cranking a 6XD along a break are all pretty different modes of cranking.  After thinking about it more, to clarify my question, I am wondering if any of these options call for a faster tip in some applications.  I would think some guys like a faster tip for squarebills or for ripping through grass.  Otherwise, I don't see it. 

 

Fishing chatterbaits is not cranking, but I have heard a range of opinions on those.  Last year at the Classic I asked Brett Hite about it and I thought he was pretty clear that he was fishing chatterbaits on a moderate, no matter the conditions or applications. 

 

Personally, I am using moderate tips for all, but open to trying something different if justified.

[GReb]

I prefer a mod/fast for shallow water cranking such as squarebills and traps. Finding the balance between having the horse power to steer the fish out of cover and enough flex to keep a fish pinned is key. 

[DitchPanda]

I prefer a mod fast for larger baits with bigger more robust hooks like lipless and square bills. Easier to rip a trap out of grass or pull a fish out of wood with a rod that's not as soft. I prefer a moderate when throwing smaller hooked cranks...bandit 100, Berkley frittside, dt 4 & 6 etc.

[ChrisD46]

15 hours ago, jimmyjoe said:

  I like a moderate action for cranks. All the time. I haven't seen every rod on the market (in fact far from it) but of the ones I've seen, I've never seen a moderate/fast action that I would care to use for cranks. Not any brand and not any model.

   One of the reasons is simple: fish seem to spit the hook more often with a M/F than a Moderate action. Why in the heck go to all the work to get a bite and then run a greater risk of losing the fish on the way in?

   Sorry, but it doesn't make sense to me. As usual, YMMV.          jj

*If you have a moderate / fast action cranking rod and money was tight , you could use a mono with a bit more stretch and a line ratting closer to #12 lb. test (i.e. Stren Original Mono) ... While not perfect - it will help your cause if all you have is a moderate / fast action rod to use .

[new2BC4bass]

How come you didn't mention a 'Fast' action for cranking?  I have a glass cranking rod and at least one graphite cranking rod that are rated 'Fast'.  I know they are cranking rods because it says so on the blanks.  You can find several cranking rods rated 'Fast'.

 

I have the Dobyns 704CB Glass.  Says 'Fast' on it.  Should I use it for jigs?    TT gave it an Editor's Choice award in 2009.

[snake95]

1 hour ago, new2BC4bass said:

How come you didn't mention a 'Fast' action for cranking?  I have a glass cranking rod and at least one graphite cranking rod that are rated 'Fast'.  I know they are cranking rods because it says so on the blanks.  You can find several cranking rods rated 'Fast'.

?? Hm.... I did not expect that.  You got me there.

 

I know action ratings are subjective to a degree - makes it a little more difficult to talk preferences.

 

One thing I have figured out at this point is that I don't have any fast rods that I like to throw cranks or chatterbaits on.  

 

But with all the subjectivity I am not shocked that fast cranking rods exist.

 

[Team9nine]

Personally, I’m a big fan of a more moderate-fast action for all scenarios. I have to have a little stiffness in the blank for feedback. I can’t stand some of the limber “noodle type” glass rods that have no real feel to them for this application...ANY application actually ?

[jimmyjoe]

5 minutes ago, snake95 said:

But with all the subjectivity I am not shocked that fast cranking rods exist.

 

   There were Fast action (or fast speed, as some people said) rods before 1975, when Fenwick brought out the first graphite rods. They were all fiberglass. They worked just fine.

   Remember - "action" is where the rod bends. As @Mick D told me, that doesn't necessarily say anything about how stiff or compliant the tip is. The TT review mentioned that the tip was compliant.

   But no, I have never seen a modern rod like that, much less used one on the water.

   The fact that rods are being made nowadays with fast actions and are advertised as cranking rods is VERY interesting. I'd like to see one, and get the opportunity to use one. I think it would be fun!

  

 

   Darn it!  Get that Tackle Monkey away from me!!!!!     ? ?      jj

  

  

  

[new2BC4bass]

44 minutes ago, jimmyjoe said:

 

   There were Fast action (or fast speed, as some people said) rods before 1975, when Fenwick brought out the first graphite rods. They were all fiberglass. They worked just fine.

   Remember - "action" is where the rod bends. As @Mick D told me, that doesn't necessarily say anything about how stiff or compliant the tip is. The TT review mentioned that the tip was compliant.

   But no, I have never seen a modern rod like that, much less used one on the water.

   The fact that rods are being made nowadays with fast actions and are advertised as cranking rods is VERY interesting. I'd like to see one, and get the opportunity to use one. I think it would be fun!

  

 

   Darn it!  Get that Tackle Monkey away from me!!!!!     ? ?      jj

  

  

  

I have a Lew's Ledge small crankbait rod.  7'6" if I remember correctly.  I finally got a reel on it, but have not used it yet.  If I lived nearby I would gladly let you try it.

 

If I remember correctly, all the glass crankbait rods I researched were rated Fast.

[garroyo130]

1 hour ago, Team9nine said:

Personally, I’m a big fan of a more moderate-fast action for all scenarios. I have to have a little stiffness in the blank for feedback. I can’t stand some of the limber “noodle type” glass rods that have no real feel to them for this application...ANY application actually ?

 

^ once you get a good quality moderate-fast rod it can almost be used for anything. I have an old All-Star rod which is a MH/MF which I used for jig fishing and it was a great rod. I now use it for deep cranks and am equally pleased with it. 

[Team9nine]

11 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

 

^ once you get a good quality moderate-fast rod it can almost be used for anything. I have an old All-Star rod which is a MH/MF which I used for jig fishing and it was a great rod. I now use it for deep cranks and am equally pleased with it. 

 

Ditto - I have two old/original All-Star jig rods (25+ yrs old) that make great cranking sticks. I use them all the time now for Traps and mid-deep cranks since I've upgraded my jig rods to more modern (lighter weight/better balance) stuff 

[jimmyjoe]

5 minutes ago, new2BC4bass said:

If I remember correctly, all the glass crankbait rods I researched were rated Fast.

 

   Wow! All of them?

   Did you get one of them? Did you find it really good for keeping small trebles pinned? And did you have a Moderate action with which to compare it?

   Seriously ..........this is starting to get really interesting.

    jj

[A-Jay]

Medium Heavy Moderate Fast for me.

It's all about The Bend and the Moderate Speed of the Recovery. 

?

A-Jay

[MN Fisher]

4 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Medium Heavy Moderate Fast for me.

That's what my Fury 705CB is - so far I've had no complaints about it.

[Bankc]

4 hours ago, ChrisD46 said:

*If you have a moderate / fast action cranking rod and money was tight , you could use a mono with a bit more stretch and a line ratting closer to #12 lb. test (i.e. Stren Original Mono) ... While not perfect - it will help your cause if all you have is a moderate / fast action rod to use .

This is true.  I've used a medium, moderate action rod that was too soft to use with mono.  I had to switch it over to braid, or else I had issues setting the hook on fish with a lot of line out.  I switched to a medium, moderate/fast and was able to go back to mono.  

 

My point being that the speed of the rod will depend a bit on the line you like to use, how deep of divers that you're using, and how far out you're going to be casting.  With deep divers where you're going to have a lot of line out, I prefer a fast action with some stretchy line.  Slower action rods tend to load up too much while the bait is out there anyway.  With squarebills and medium to shallow divers, I prefer a moderate/fast.  With topwater lures with treble hooks and really shallow runners, I like a soft moderate with some stretchy line, since I usually need less power to set the hooks, and more give since they're often more likely to breach.  It's all personal preference, and that's where my personal preferences have led me.  

[Boomstick]

Assuming you're throwing a 1.5 sized crank, I like moderate if there's no grass. As soon as you introduce grass, a M/F or MH/MF becomes more ideal. Most of the time something moderate is fine.

5 hours ago, MN Fisher said:

That's what my Fury 705CB is - so far I've had no complaints about it.

Personally, I would classify that as a Medium moderate rod by most manufacturers standards - and yes I agree that's a good one.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

I agree with not wanting to lose a fish after working for bites, but the opposite is also true. You have to get bit before you worry about landing fish. From that viewpoint, I like mod/fast graphite rods for steering square bills through cover, ripping traps and cranks through grass and throwing inline spinners. I have a custom lamiglass SR 705 for deep cranks. I have also used fast action rods in a pinch and never had a problem landing fish on cranks. 

[RoLo]

 

It matters whether the blank is graphite, fiberglass or composite,

and whether the main-line is mono, fluoro or braid.

In most cases though, I'd opt for mod-fast before opting for moderate.

 

Roger

[Gary_Snyder]

10 hours ago, Team9nine said:

. I can’t stand some of the limber “noodle type” glass rods that have no real feel to them for this application...ANY application actually ?

I know, but those are the best for not tearing out treble hooks. 

 

The moderate action helps a little, but it's more the slow reactance blanks made from fiberglass, or composite/blend blanks that really makes a rod wiggly, soft, and forgiving to resist tearing out small treble hooks. Plenty of them are rated moderate-fast. Many of the best are heavy though.........but then again a heavy rod does not matter when you are trying to drag a big-lipped crankbait around the lake.

 

Many manufacturers try to sell high modulus, light weight moderate action rods for crankbaits. And it doesn't work too well - and high sensitivity is not needed for cranks.

 

Moderate vs. moderate fast is more about different things.........like playing a big fish close to the boat and staying buttoned up during head shakes - moderate action rods can help a little here. This is great for flipping.

 

Casting can be quite different too.... moderate-fast would normally be better for bass fishing. A true moderate rod which bends close to the middle would need a surfcast style to work at it's best.

 

I was just thinking about building a new custom topwater rod, which is similar in that you are dealing with small treble hooks. I was looking at 3 blanks -

 

1) A light weight, (1.8 oz.) moderate action graphite blend blank

 

2) A moderate-fast (1.8oz.) low modulus graphite popping blank

 

3) A heavier (2.7 oz.) moderate-fast composite blank, with graphite in the butt, and fiberglass in the tip half, called The Judge

 

I came to the conclusion that 2 would work best for fun fishing, to keep the rod light weight because I'm using a stop-and-go technique with the topwater. And it would cast better.

 

Number 3 would be best for tournaments or pure crankbait fishing if getting the most fish to the boat is the number one objective.

 

Note that the moderate blank did not make the cut.

 

Line choice and technique can change things also

 

But for crankbait fishing, forget about action - look for a heavy, noodly rod with some fiberglass in it if you want the best.

 

If you are just fun fishing, don't care about losing a fish here or there, and want more sensitivity or a lighter weight rod, go for an all graphite rod, even high modulus if you want to.

[Team9nine]

19 minutes ago, Gary_Snyder said:

I know, but those are the best for not tearing out treble hooks. 

 

The moderate action helps a little, but it's more the slow reactance blanks made from fiberglass, or composite/blend blanks that really makes a rod wiggly, soft, and forgiving to resist tearing out small treble hooks. Plenty of them are rated moderate-fast. Many of the best are heavy though.........but then again a heavy rod does not matter when you are trying to drag a big-lipped crankbait around the lake.

 

Many manufacturers try to sell high modulus, light weight moderate action rods for crankbaits. And it doesn't work too well - and high sensitivity is not needed for cranks.

 

Moderate vs. moderate fast is more about different things.........like playing a big fish close to the boat and staying buttoned up during head shakes - moderate action rods can help a little here. This is great for flipping.

 

Casting can be quite different too.... moderate-fast would normally be better for bass fishing. A true moderate rod which bends close to the middle would need a surfcast style to work at it's best.

 

I was just thinking about building a new custom topwater rod, which is similar in that you are dealing with small treble hooks. I was looking at 3 blanks -

 

1) A light weight, (1.8 oz.) moderate action graphite blend blank

 

2) A moderate-fast (1.8oz.) low modulus graphite popping blank

 

3) A heavier (2.7 oz.) moderate-fast composite blank, with graphite in the butt, and fiberglass in the tip half, called The Judge

 

I came to the conclusion that 2 would work best for fun fishing, to keep the rod light weight because I'm using a stop-and-go technique with the topwater. And it would cast better.

 

Number 3 would be best for tournaments or pure crankbait fishing if getting the most fish to the boat is the number one objective.

 

Note that the moderate blank did not make the cut.

 

Line choice and technique can change things also

 

But for crankbait fishing, forget about action - look for a heavy, noodly rod with some fiberglass in it if you want the best.

 

If you are just fun fishing, don't care about losing a fish here or there, and want more sensitivity or a lighter weight rod, go for an all graphite rod, even high modulus if you want to.

 

It’s a trade-off, but I crank around enough cover on my waters that I have to have some degree of feel before burying my crank in a brushpile. As such, I’ll gladly accept the trade-offs and deal with them as opposed to spending all my time trying to unsnag baits. Once you get the hooks buried past the barb, half the battle has already been won as concerns lost fish.

[papajoe222]

I carry four crankin' sticks, of which only one is rated mod. The other three are mod/fast. That one is relegated to use with small/light cranks, more for its ability to cast them farther/easier.

[Gary_Snyder]

8 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

Once you get the hooks buried past the barb, half the battle has already been won as concerns lost fish.

Yup!

[WRB]

In the early 70’s when bass fishing was evolving into the sport it’s today we had 2 types of casting rods; broom sticks we called jig rods and moderate action that were bass rods. All were tubular glass, graphite and boron composites we’re rare, the rods were pistol grips.

I fished both fresh and salt water discovering Fenwick popping rods that were trigger sticks not pistol handles.

I made my 1st “crankbait” rod from a popping rod blank and trigger stick handle 7’ long. I could cast further then anyone else I fished with catching incredible limits of crankbait bass. That rod was lost shipping to Canada for+a vacation. 

Today you have excellent choices with glass composite crankbait rods. The goal is the same; make effortless long cast and be able to feel the vibration, it’s that simple.

Tom