Are big pros really using budget gear?

[PhishLI]

On 1/11/2021 at 1:17 PM, Bandersnatch said:

I'm sure this has been covered before but Imnjusy wondering again. Are pros like kvd really fun fishing and tournament fishing for 100k with $99 rods and $139 reels. I'm not saying in anyway there's something wrong with it, I'd just be surprised. Thoughts? 

The hardcore enthusiast/cognescenti sector of any hobby or activity is nearly always tiny. Their views and wants occasionally leach out into the greater population to a tiny degree. Their positions have weight and influence with manufacturer's R&D decisions occasionally, but typically have little effect on the average person, or even "Pros". That's because the things that matter to the hardcores really don't matter that much in reality. Most of the time, you, me, or Jacob Wheeler will catch the same fish with a Black Max/ Berkeley Cherrywood as we would've on an Antares/Legend Elite because we found the fish and figured out what they were willing to eat. It's that simple.

 

What a pro or anyone else needs as opposed to what they want or prefer are two different things. You don't need much beyond your brain to catch fish. $100 reels and rods give up very little to their $600 counterparts during actual fishing.

 

The majority of pro bass fisherman aren't trust fund babies. Most grew up fishing and catching on budget gear and/or hand-me downs. They didn't need cutting edge gear then and they don't need it now, especially if sponsorship money is keeping the lights on. Some may appreciate the high end, or even use it, but none need it to do their job.

 

P.S. I'll be wearing my custom chin-strap mounted drool cup when I unbox my new Zillion. I don't need anyone twisting an ankle.

[Linewinder]

2 hours ago, LCG said:

I am confident that kvd could outfish me with the lowest quality gear. 

I'm not sure that is the sort of confidence a fisherperson should have ?   Of course, I'd think I could do almost as good as KVD.... 

 

 

if I were in his boat and he took me around on his favorite lake

 

 

But I would use my own stuff, because that is what I'm comfortable with.  I'd try his stuff if he offered.

 

[jimmyjoe]

1 minute ago, Linewinder said:

I'm not sure that is the sort of confidence a fisherperson should have ?   Of course, I'd think I could do almost as good as KVD.... 

 

 

if I were in his boat and he took me around on his favorite lake

 

 

 

 

 

   I really admire your command of font size!    ???         jj

[Jigfishn10]

15 hours ago, Bankc said:

Most of the top tier "professional anglers" are probably more "professional spokesperson" than angler.  And that's not a slight against their skills or performance.  I'm just saying that I'm betting a good number of the top names in fishing probably make more money in endorsements than through their tournament winnings on any given year.  

 

I'd be willing to bet that the guys on the fringe, just barely making the cut, are probably the guys who are fishing the best gear.  They're the ones who are relying more heavily on tournament winnings as a share of income.  

No doubt and I agree.

 

Just remember, these "professional anglers" don't seek out companies for endorsements, it's the companies that seek out the angler. The companies have 1 goal in mind and that's to push product. The companies will look for not only the big name elite anglers but also guys who may not be as big but who possess communication and people skills. These guys may not be making huge money on the trail but from what I read they get put on the company's payroll. Those guys collect a salary, health and wealth benefits. As being employees they get steep discounts on products. 

 

Some of the pro's who rely on fishing as their sole income (elite anglers) will set themselves up as a business entity. They are obviously sponsored and do enjoy the discounts on equipment. Heck, they may even get compensated as well. As a business entity they can write expenses off for their gas to an from tournament locations, housing (hotel) expenses...you name it, whatever can be written off from their taxes they do it. Within this, they have depreciation to equipment...fishing rods, boats, trucks etc.

 

If you're an elite, why wouldn't you have the best you can have? 

Let's not lose site of the fact that their sticks may even be customized to their specifications. They don't exactly buy off the "rack". Baseball players have bats specifically made for them, Hockey players as well. I wouldn't doubt that professional anglers do too.

 

Love the dialog....good job man.

[PhishLI]

5 hours ago, Jigfishn10 said:

If you're an elite, why wouldn't you have the best you can have? 

Have you ever spoken to Pros at fishing expos? I haven't come across one yet that was a gear connoisseur/enthusiast. Not a single one that could talk about anything related to rods and reels on a basic technical level, even when they endorse them. I guarantee that the small clutch of weirdos, myself included, that post across fishing sites and suffer over the smallest details know way more about what's marketed to them than the Pros do. Pros are very rarely actual gear experts. They're fish catching experts when under pressure. That's their job. Line feel, seeing their line, and reasonable sensitivity is all they actually need for finesse-ier techniques. Also, they're often fishing moving baits. Nothing really special required here. Nope.

 

It's reasonable to conclude that using current state of the art (SOTA) gear should increase one's catch rate assuming you can read water and find fish. It's possible and maybe even true, but other factors outweigh that possibility by a huge margin. Short of gear malfunctioning during a tournament, absolute "quality", as forum posters see it anyway, is low on the list of priorities.

 

5 hours ago, Jigfishn10 said:

Let's not lose site of the fact that their sticks may even be customized to their specifications.

An assumption, and highly unlikely as a norm. It's more likely that if that did happen it would become a production model. Prototyping according to the whims of an endorser has layers of costs. Manufacturers consider their ROI when they endorse.

 

Also, only another independent contractor can truly understand what it's like to be out there without a safety net. There's no unemployment check. It's you by yourself, and that's it. Nobody's coming to save you. Do you think KVD, Palaniuk, or Ish like spending their weekends chucking baits into a giant fish tank and answering the same dumb questions from fans? Sponsorship checks matter. Most of these guys would've been better off in the long run opening up a corner bagel shop.

[Jigfishn10]

Wouldn't it be easier @PhishLI to say: "I respectfully disagree". ?

 

I respect your opinion bud.

[PhishLI]

23 minutes ago, Jigfishn10 said:

Wouldn't it be easier @PhishLI to say: "I respectfully disagree". ?

Ha! You should've seen the first unedited draft!  Tolstoy's ghost nodded out after the first run-on paragraph. 

[CFDoc]

Great comments by PhishLi here.

 

Ive been lucky enough to attend 2 classics and 2 Elite series events recently. And a couple of Opens as well. I got to see exactly what was laying on just about every front deck. There’s very little ‘high end’ gear on these boats. At least from what I was expecting.

 

I don’t know if Bradley Hallman counts as a ‘big’ name or not, but I can 100% tell you his reels cost about $25 each, if not less. I don’t even think there’s a brand name on the reels at all. Just chineseum stuff he orders from lord knows where. His low riders all looked like the really old models too.

 

To echo what PhishLi has said, I know we all want to believe our high end gear puts more fish in the boat, but there’s a huge diminished return when it comes to rods and reels.

 

Now, I need to go check my tracking number on the Steez I just ordered.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

15 hours ago, Jigfishn10 said:

No doubt and I agree.

 

Just remember, these "professional anglers" don't seek out companies for endorsements, it's the companies that seek out the angler. The companies have 1 goal in mind and that's to push product. The companies will look for not only the big name elite anglers but also guys who may not be as big but who possess communication and people skills. These guys may not be making huge money on the trail but from what I read they get put on the company's payroll. Those guys collect a salary, health and wealth benefits. As being employees they get steep discounts on products. 

 

Some of the pro's who rely on fishing as their sole income (elite anglers) will set themselves up as a business entity. They are obviously sponsored and do enjoy the discounts on equipment. Heck, they may even get compensated as well. As a business entity they can write expenses off for their gas to an from tournament locations, housing (hotel) expenses...you name it, whatever can be written off from their taxes they do it. Within this, they have depreciation to equipment...fishing rods, boats, trucks etc.

 

If you're an elite, why wouldn't you have the best you can have? 

Let's not lose site of the fact that their sticks may even be customized to their specifications. They don't exactly buy off the "rack". Baseball players have bats specifically made for them, Hockey players as well. I wouldn't doubt that professional anglers do too.

 

Love the dialog....good job man.

Why would a hockey player want a custom bat?

[Johnbt]

"I know we all want to believe our high end gear puts more fish in the boat"

 

I'm one who has never believed that for a moment. I just like good tools. I'm 70 and if it costs two or three times as much to get a tool that's an honest 5% better I'm up for it. It's also fun to see and use what they've invented this time around and find out if any of the ad copy is bs. Reading about it is fun, but trying it out is more fun.

[roadwarrior]

[MiceNReets]

9 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Why would a hockey player want a custom bat?

LoL.  I thought the same but wasn’t sure if I should comment.  

2 hours ago, Johnbt said:

"I know we all want to believe our high end gear puts more fish in the boat"

 

I'm one who has never believed that for a moment. I just like good tools. I'm 70 and if it costs two or three times as much to get a tool that's an honest 5% better I'm up for it. It's also fun to see and use what they've invented this time around and find out if any of the ad copy is bs. Reading about it is fun, but trying it out is more fun.

Well said.  Well said... ? 

[Bankc]

10 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Why would a hockey player want a custom bat?

Because their millionaires and custom bats only cost a couple hundred dollars.  

[CFDoc]

3 hours ago, Johnbt said:

"I know we all want to believe our high end gear puts more fish in the boat"

 

I'm one who has never believed that for a moment. I just like good tools. 

I think you may have mistaken my attempt at a humorous non sequitur and judged it as a masters thesis.

 

I enjoy everything you do about high end tools as well. But the ‘I am Tiger Woods’ effect is in all of us to some extent. 

[jbsoonerfan]

7 minutes ago, CFDoc said:

I enjoy everything you do about high end tools as well. But the ‘I am Tiger Woods’ effect is in all of us to some extent. 

 

Nothing describes the average Joe's attempt to achieve the highest level of an activity like a guy that can't break 90 with a bag full of Pro V1's. 

[Choporoz]

The only time a pro's opinion on sponsored gear registers at all with me, is when they can go into detail about design aspects that they specifically requested or imagined...and why.

 

I would,  however,  be interested in hearing an honest discussion about why a pro has switched sponsors.   Often, I imagine,  it has to be strictly financial contract details.   If so, fine, but I'd be curious to hear him or her say that.  If a pro jumps ship primarily for performance,  I'd like to hear about that, too; especially if they could talk through honest comparison....without bashing, of course. 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

1 hour ago, MiceNReets said:

LoL.  I thought the same but wasn’t sure if I should comment.  

Well said.  Well said... ? 

At lest you got the joke. 

[Jigfishn10]

2 hours ago, MiceNReets said:

LoL.  I thought the same but wasn’t sure if I should comment.  

Well said.  Well said... ? 

Of course you can. Wouldn't have hurt my feelings...?

[MiceNReets]

1 hour ago, Choporoz said:

The only time a pro's opinion on sponsored gear registers at all with me, is when they can go into detail about design aspects that they specifically requested or imagined...and why.

 

I would,  however,  be interested in hearing an honest discussion about why a pro has switched sponsors.   Often, I imagine,  it has to be strictly financial contract details.   If so, fine, but I'd be curious to hear him or her say that.  If a pro jumps ship primarily for performance,  I'd like to hear about that, too; especially if they could talk through honest comparison....without bashing, of course. 

It’s gotta be all about the money.  My guess or they’d stand by the gear they keep pushing on everyone for so long.   I stopped listening to pros talk about gear and started buying it myself to try it out.  If I don’t like it then I just sell it and on to the next rods and reels that have me curious.   A pros review on gear they use is like watching the 100s of YouTube videos of people buying the slx (for example) and reading the box and telling you it’s a great reel because you can make the spool free spin for xx amount of time or the handle turns so smooth and effortlessly.   
 

however at least the pros bring fish in the boat as they try to sell you that reel. But still it’s all marketing.  

[Ravox]

I'm a enthusiast photographer, and I believe the same principle applies to fishing , in photography is not the camera that makes a good photo but the photographer vision, fishing is the same is not the equipment is the knowledge of the environment and behavior or the species you want to catch 

[jimmyjoe]

5 minutes ago, Ravox said:

I'm an enthusiast photographer, and I believe the same principle applies to fishing. In photography, it is not the camera that makes a good photo but the photographer's vision. Fishing is the same; it's not the equipment, it is the knowledge of the environment and behavior of the species you want to catch.

 

  I agree.      jj

[NYWayfarer]

Only one way to find out. Watch them on the circuit and see what they use. Consider this, If they are sponsored by Lew’s the flagship reel of that company is $350 so unless the pros they sponsor fish Pro TI reels exclusively then they will be using some “budget” gear in the $150 and below range.

 

“Budget” gear use by pros is not unheard of. I remember back in the day Roland Martin was sponsored by Mitchell. He also used Johnny Morris BPS stuff in tournaments. 

[TnRiver46]

6 hours ago, jbsoonerfan said:

 

Nothing describes the average Joe's attempt to achieve the highest level of an activity like a guy that can't break 90 with a bag full of Pro V1's. 

I find pro v1 way off the beaten path nowadays haha. I love out driving people with a blade 3 iron from the 60s, it blows their mind. You won’t see a club like that on the pro tour but gosh they are fun when you stripe them! Not so fun when you hit on the toe when it’s 40 degrees out 

[redmeansdistortion]

20 hours ago, CFDoc said:

To echo what PhishLi has said, I know we all want to believe our high end gear puts more fish in the boat, but there’s a huge diminished return when it comes to rods and reels.

I really like high end gear.  It's smooth and pleasing to look at, but I don't feel it really helps me catch more fish.  Some of the most successful fishermen I know use nothing more than Ugly Stiks with whatever blister pack reels they find at the local store.  

[PhishLI]

1 hour ago, redmeansdistortion said:

I really like high end gear.

Everyone likes high end gear too. What's not to like? It was not the point of my voluminous screeds to get into the expensive vs affordable debate. Not one bit. It was to address the OP's curiosity about sponsored Pros having to use affordable gear and what that really means in the end.

 

It means this: Brian Latimer being forced to use Favorite Rods, or Jacob Wheeler being forced to use Duckett Rods because of sponsorship $ is not the same as Usain Bolt being forced to run the 100 Metre in Goloshes. Some people feel that's true, and some people are led to believe that's true, but it's not.