Suck at the alberto knot...Options?

[Spoons]

Setting up a finesse rig and I can't for the life of me tie a reliable alberto knot for connecting a FC leader. My only other options seem to be to use just straight FC or use a barrel swivel. On the rare days these illinois rivers aren't stained or cloudy, do you think something as small as a barrel swivel will scare fish away when I want to use a FC leader with my braid? 

[Smells like fish]

Would the double uni knot work for you?

[Kdizzle]

10 wraps one way, 10 wraps back, then pass the tag end back through the loop 5 times before cinching. 

[new2BC4bass]

Shin's Knot maybe.

 

[12poundbass]

18 minutes ago, Smells like fish said:

Would the double uni knot work for you?

This is what I use and it’s worked so far for me. Pretty easy to do once you get the hang of it. 

[WRB]

The old blood knot ( clinch-clinch) easy to tie. The double Uni knot (uni-uni) is very similar to a blood knot, both work.

The more complicated knots may reduce the knot size and offer very marginal (3-5%) improvement in knot strength using FC leader. 

Tom

[BrianMDTX]

Try the Lefty Kreh (aka Seaguar) knot. Very easy to tie and I found it pretty strong. 

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GDxGy3Nld2g

[5/0]

I was struggling with the Alberto too! That’s why I asked about the Shinn Knot (see link referenced above). Tried that too, it seemed bigger to me than the Alberto. So I took some extra flouro and braid I had lying around and practiced the Alberto for a while. I used 7 wraps up and 7 down. After a while I found I could tie it pretty well. I use it now for all leader connections. The 7 wraps instead of 10 is working out well, no break off issues. Just make sure that when you finish it the lines exit the loop on the same side.

[optimator]

1 hour ago, BrianMDTX said:

Try the Lefty Kreh (aka Seaguar) knot. Very easy to tie and I found it pretty strong. 

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GDxGy3Nld2g

That's the knot I've been using since I've went to braid. It's been great so far. 

[PourMyOwn]

I tie a Yucatan knot, its much easier for my rapidly failing eyesight and less than nimble fingers.

[new2BC4bass]

2 hours ago, BrianMDTX said:

Try the Lefty Kreh (aka Seaguar) knot. Very easy to tie and I found it pretty strong. 

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GDxGy3Nld2g

I like this knot!  Looks like it is super easy to tie.  Something I need at my age.

[MickD]

To tie the Alberto I form the loop and hold the loop and the braid tag with my left thumb and forefinger, then do the wraps out.  At that time shift the half completed knot to the right thumb and forefinger making sure that you don't turn it over during the transfer.  Now do the wraps easily and neatly back up and stick the tag through the loop.  Now grab the knot with the left hand again and pull the LEADER tag end gently.  This will close the knot so that it will be secure for the rest of the process.   Now wet the knot and alternately pull the main lines and the leader tag end against the braid main line.  The knot will not hold unless the leader loop is very tightly closed, so it has to be set just like an FG, very tightly.  This is especially important on stiffer leaders (15 pound test and higher, leader material stiff mono, etc).  The only way the knot can unravel is if the tag end slips out of the spot where the leader loop is closed.  So I tie two tight half hitches of the braid tag end against the finished knot.  Then cut the tag ends.

 

Sounds more complicated than it is, and it allows one to tie a very nice, cylindrical, knot since the wraps can be done neatly and evenly.  

 

I don't trust the Alberto without the half hitches, especially with heavier leaders.  With the half hitches, I think it's bullet-proof.

[BrianMDTX]

14 minutes ago, new2BC4bass said:

I like this knot!  Looks like it is super easy to tie.  Something I need at my age.

Having met Lefty Kreh several times many years ago, and knowing his reputation, I do not think he would have lent his name to this (or his loop knot) if he did not have faith in them. This knot is done from start to finish in 30 seconds. Easily tied on a boat, and when I got snagged beyond all hope, when I wrapped the #20 lb braid around  a stick and pulled, the 8 lb leader snapped at the hook knot (a Palomar) but this knot held. 

[MickD]

I was not meaning to imply that any of the suggested knots were not excellent knots; I only was trying to answer the OP issue of having difficulty tying the Alberto.  The above method solved that issue for me.

 

I will try the Kreh knot.  Very simple, but looks large compared to the Alberto.  If size is not an issue then the most reliable, simplest knot very well could be the double uni.

[Maggiesmaster]

The Shin knot has worked well for me.  It seems less bulky than the Alberto knot. I’ve got a mental block on the Palomar knot—just can’t tie it!

[mcipinkie]

I don't want to be ugly, but you just need to work on it.  It's easy to tie.  Watch some videos.

 

The Alberto knot is a fine knot.  I tie 8 turns up, 8 turns down, take a  half hitch around the standing part and I pull trees out of the lake.

 

The uni to uni is a good knot also, but I've settled on the Alberto.

 

The Kreh is probably also as are a half dozen others.  You just have pick one, learn to tie it, and commit to it.

 

I use it on everything from 6 to 25. 

 

You can always tie an FG.

[Dens228]

I use the double uni...  With a little practice I can tie it quickly and haven't had issues with failure. 

[zeth]

It's literally the easiest knot to tie. Sorry. You just gotta practice. If you are not getting it within the first try or two you are doing something wrong. watch some youtube videos. I will note that if you are doing braid to mono or copoly the Alberto can be a bit tricky. Go a little slower when cinching the knot tight as that softer line tends to make a sloppy knot if you are not careful.

[bulldog1935]

I've been rolling Allbright knots for 40 years, even shot them through my fly rod, so Improved Allbright is a go-to for me.  

Finagled this one to hit the black meter mark in X-braid

[MickD]

18 hours ago, new2BC4bass said:

I like this knot!  Looks like it is super easy to tie.  Something I need at my age.

I tried it and it appears to be larger than that Alberto (3 thicknesses of the leader?), does not seem to give as streamlined shape, so I'm not sure if it will go through small micro guides as well as the Alberto.  It's clearly a lot bigger than the FG, and clearly a lot easier to tie than the FG.  I'm not wild about having to pull the whole leader through the loop.  Finally, it looks like it wastes a lot of leader and braid, more than the other knots.  I'll stick with the double uni on smaller leaders, FG and Alberto on the bigger ones.  

 

I noticed on one write-up for the Kreh knot that it "works well with lines of about the same diameter," which means it may not work as well with big differences in diameter?

[FishinBuck07]

I am on the Shin's knot boat this year!  Found it the other day and is very easy to tie, and is very small so should go through the guides quite well.  Can't speak for the strength yet though, water is a little bit cold here right now!  haha

[BrianMDTX]

1 hour ago, MickD said:

I tried it and it appears to be larger than that Alberto (3 thicknesses of the leader?), does not seem to give as streamlined shape, so I'm not sure if it will go through small micro guides as well as the Alberto.  It's clearly a lot bigger than the FG, and clearly a lot easier to tie than the FG.  I'm not wild about having to pull the whole leader through the loop.  Finally, it looks like it wastes a lot of leader and braid, more than the other knots.  I'll stick with the double uni on smaller leaders, FG and Alberto on the bigger ones.  

 

I noticed on one write-up for the Kreh knot that it "works well with lines of about the same diameter," which means it may not work as well with big differences in diameter?

I used 20 lb Sufix 832 and 8 lb YZH as the leader. The Sufix is 0.009” and the YZH is 0.011”. I did not have issues with knot clearance through the guides on my Fenwick HMX66M-FS-2, nor did I have issues when the knot made it onto the spool. But I do not think they are micro guides. I also do not feel that I wasted either main line or leader, and pulling the entire length of the leader (mine was 6’) was pretty simple. 

 

I will agree that it may be a little larger than other braid/leader knots, but if your guides allow clearance, it’s very simple to tie and appears to be very strong. 

[N.Y. Yankee]

The Yucatan knot looks very interesting. I tried it a couple of times and seems easier to me as I have trouble fumbling with knots like the Blood Knot.

[FryDog62]

Alberto is one of the strongest and thinnest knots when tied correctly. It has one primary flaw if you can avoid will make it nearly bullet proof.
 

You must go back through the original loop the same direction as you came in or it will pull out upon tightening. I try to be very careful but out in the wind and a rocking boat I still go the wrong way from time to time and it is frustrating...

[MickD]

1 hour ago, FryDog62 said:

Alberto is one of the strongest and thinnest knots when tied correctly. It has one primary flaw if you can avoid will make it nearly bullet proof.
 

You must go back through the original loop the same direction as you came in or it will pull out upon tightening. I try to be very careful but out in the wind and a rocking boat I still go the wrong way from time to time and it is frustrating...

I submit that that final step is not enough to make it reliable.  Nearly, but not absolutely.  Please read on.

 

I've been working at that knot now for a couple years and now and then have had them unravel.  Even when I've concentrated on sticking the tag end back through properly.  I think I finally figured out why I might be having problems and others may not.  I use stiff leaders, FC leader material, up to 20 pound test, but usually 15.  Even at 15, especially with the very fine braid I use (less than .006 diameter) I believe that the braid tag end sometimes gets out of the loop which is harder to close tightly with stiffer leaders.  The only way I can figure that that knot can unravel is if the braid tag comes out of the loop.

 

To make sure it is reliable with the leaders I use it has to be VERY TIGHTLY set, just like an FG, and two half hitches, each individually tightened against the knot (half hitches made from the tag end of the braid), have to be added.  I've never been able to get a tight wind knot out of braid, and I dont expect a tight half hitch to ever unravel.