Wheeler

[ajschn06]

Anyone catch the hubbub regarding Wheeler over the last couple days and the cheating accusation?  Overall it seems pretty nondescript but as someone who I held in high regard it's disappointing to see the number of people who aren't surprised his name came up in this type of incident...

[GReb]

12 minutes ago, ajschn06 said:

Anyone catch the hubbub regarding Wheeler over the last couple days and the cheating accusation?  Overall it seems pretty nondescript but as someone who I held in high regard it's disappointing to see the number of people who aren't surprised his name came up in this type of incident...

Nobody pushes the rules like Wheeler. That being said I don’t know if he’s ever broken a rule. He knows them better than anyone and will push the limit trying to gain a competitive advantage. He’s hardly a “cheater”

[ajschn06]

13 minutes ago, GReb said:

Nobody pushes the rules like Wheeler. That being said I don’t know if he’s ever broken a rule. He knows them better than anyone and will push the limit trying to gain a competitive advantage. He’s hardly a “cheater”

I think that was the jist of the complaint.  He had cleared an off-limit area with tourney directors and fished it.  Nobody could point to a specific incident where he cheated, but was often in the gray area.  There was a mention of a photo that showed up at a classic or something a while back where he was seen reviewing a map with a local.

[GReb]

I take that back he’s broken a few and self reported violations. Like being DQd for having his Marshall help push him off the sandbar and taking a penalty for throwing a cast before releasing the fish in last summers FLW tournament. 

[Team9nine]

Haters gonna' hate - and he still has plenty of haters. But when you ask the tourney director on 3 separate occasions for clarification on a rule to make sure you aren't going to break it, there is nothing to see here. Just because no one else found or thought of it doesn't make it wrong. The best always have targets on their backs. Just look at the number of rules created over the years because of stuff Roland did.

[12poundbass]

Randy Flowers just stirring the pot again. 
 

I did read he did indeed talk to the TD and was given the green light so I don’t see the issue. 

[TnRiver46]

I haven’t heard anything about it, where were they fishing? 

[Hawkeye21]

I saw that a non-boater was stirring the pot quite a bit on Facebook by calling Wheeler a cheater. She was also accusing other pros of cheating as well. 

[ajschn06]

15 hours ago, 12poundbass said:

Randy Flowers just stirring the pot again. 
 

I did read he did indeed talk to the TD and was given the green light so I don’t see the issue. 

Who is Randy Flowers?

10 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I saw that a non-boater was stirring the pot quite a bit on Facebook by calling Wheeler a cheater. She was also accusing other pros of cheating as well. 

That was it.  I saw Zach Birge commented on it so I felt like it might hold some water though...

[ajschn06]

10 hours ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I saw that a non-boater was stirring the pot quite a bit on Facebook by calling Wheeler a cheater. She was also accusing other pros of cheating as well. 

 

She was pretty clear that she wasn't accusing him of "cheating" but it was more a complaint of certain pro's getting preferential treatment, maintaining the integrity of the sport and not trying to skirt the rules- or in JW's case- not the first time this sort of questionable thing has come up...

[12poundbass]

34 minutes ago, ajschn06 said:

Who is Randy Flowers?

That was it.  I saw Zach Birge commented on it so I felt like it might hold some water though...

Nobody really knows who Randy Flowers is (I’m sure the pros do). Plenty of people have their suspicions who he is. He’s a made up social media personality I guess you could say that seems to have inside info on professional bass fishing. 

[RichF]

17 hours ago, ajschn06 said:

I think that was the jist of the complaint.  He had cleared an off-limit area with tourney directors and fished it.  Nobody could point to a specific incident where he cheated, but was often in the gray area.  There was a mention of a photo that showed up at a classic or something a while back where he was seen reviewing a map with a local.

I actually saw this photo. It was of Wheeler and Dustin Connell viewing a map of Ross Barnett with a local. It was shown to me by another Elite Series pro at the time. I'm not saying Wheeler is a cheater but I think he (and no doubt others) push the boundaries a bit. It's kinda hard not to in the sport. 

[12poundbass]

19 minutes ago, RichF said:

I actually saw this photo. It was of Wheeler and Dustin Connell viewing a map of Ross Barnett with a local. It was shown to me by another Elite Series pro at the time. I'm not saying Wheeler is a cheater but I think he (and no doubt others) push the boundaries a bit. It's kinda hard not to in the sport. 

If you’re pushing the boundaries and not breaking a rule then I say you’re a smart person and using everything to your advantage. 

[GReb]

20 minutes ago, RichF said:

I actually saw this photo. It was of Wheeler and Dustin Connell viewing a map of Ross Barnett with a local. It was shown to me by another Elite Series pro at the time. I'm not saying Wheeler is a cheater but I think he (and no doubt others) push the boundaries a bit. It's kinda hard not to in the sport. 

Probably pointing out all the sunken rebar. I joke but it’s a problem. I’m pretty sure there was at least one or two in that tournament that had to have emergency overnight hull repairs

 

Is that the tournament Connell won?

[RichF]

1 hour ago, 12poundbass said:

If you’re pushing the boundaries and not breaking a rule then I say you’re a smart person and using everything to your advantage. 

I'm not a Wheeler fan by any means but I totally agree with you.  Mercer and Dunkin talked about him on one of their last podcasts.  Mercer said he's polarizing because he lives in the gray area.  He talked about his win at Cherokee ( 1st Elite tourney) and how he took advantage of that obscure rule nobody else knew about.  Which, he wouldn't have even been able to take advantage of without his close friend Connell.  He basically ran his boat all day.  Yes I know, everyone on tour belongs to a "crew" and they all help each other out but this is how I thought about that situation...usually another angler would give up their boat to a friend/other competitor if said angler had a shot at winning and his/her boat broke down (I'm thinking a couple years back to Shin Fukae loaning Wendlandt his boat on the Potomac).  In Wheeler's case, Connell stayed on the boat and fished with him.  That is 100% an advantage over the rest of the field which is why so many other anglers were upset over it.  Again, totally within the rules and good for him for knowing it.  So yeah, I don't think he's broken any rules outright, but the size and reach of his network could make anyone scrutinize a little more.    

[plawren53202]

1 hour ago, 12poundbass said:

If you’re pushing the boundaries and not breaking a rule then I say you’re a smart person and using everything to your advantage. 

This is a really common debate in auto racing, I spent a couple of seasons racing a dirt track stock car. The problem is that rules aren't always clearly written, certainly at local dirt tracks but I'm sure fishing tours aren't much better. It takes a lot of ingenuity and work to find ways to push the boundaries but not break the rules.

 

People would get mad at race car drivers who did it, but I know I tried to find loopholes or area for creativity and I'm sure most people did, it's just that success (like Wheeler) draws added attention. Heck Jimmy Johnson/Chad Knauss were accused of this kind of "creativity" for nearly their whole partnership in Nascar. 

 

Now having said that, I have very little patience for people who out and out just break clear rules...like people who would swap out the stock computer in their car with a high performance one (clearly against the rules) but house the cheater computer in a stock casing or paint the casing of the new one and then beat it up to make it look original. But my experience was that most people pushing the boundaries but still trying to not flat out cheat would be honest about it or even ask the officials beforehand, just like Wheeler.

[RichF]

1 hour ago, GReb said:

Probably pointing out all the sunken rebar. I joke but it’s a problem. I’m pretty sure there was at least one or two in that tournament that had to have emergency overnight hull repairs

 

Is that the tournament Connell won?

Yes, 2017.

 

I wouldn't doubt that was part of it.  So many of those big reservoirs are insanely sketchy to run around on unless you have intimate knowledge. 

[12poundbass]

36 minutes ago, RichF said:

Mercer said he's polarizing because he lives in the gray area.

I would totally disagree with Mercer on this statement. He’s not living in the gray area. The rules are clearly written so there is no gray area. If they want to add rules as they go along to avoid these instances where someone takes advantage of the rules then by all means go ahead, but I think that’s a slippery slope for sure, which I’m guessing is why nothing has been changed or modified. 

[ajschn06]

18 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

I would totally disagree with Mercer on this statement. He’s not living in the gray area. The rules are clearly written so there is no gray area. If they want to add rules as they go along to avoid these instances where someone takes advantage of the rules then by all means go ahead, but I think that’s a slippery slope for sure, which I’m guessing is why nothing has been changed or modified. 

I think that’s a big part of the issue- if another angler not named Jacob Wheeler had asked to fish that spot- is the answer the same? If someone makes a complaint and it’s not Jacob wheeler fishing that spot- does the investigation have the same outcome?

[12poundbass]

13 minutes ago, ajschn06 said:

I think that’s a big part of the issue- if another angler not named Jacob Wheeler had asked to fish that spot- is the answer the same? If someone makes a complaint and it’s not Jacob wheeler fishing that spot- does the investigation have the same outcome?

Really? 

[ajschn06]

2 minutes ago, 12poundbass said:

Really? 

I don’t know the ins and outs of the tournament world, but yes, a lot of the complaints seem to revolve around that- preferential treatment for bigger names in these scenarios 

[Hawkeye21]

20 minutes ago, ajschn06 said:

I think that’s a big part of the issue- if another angler not named Jacob Wheeler had asked to fish that spot- is the answer the same? If someone makes a complaint and it’s not Jacob wheeler fishing that spot- does the investigation have the same outcome?

That’s not Wheeler’s problem though. 

[ajschn06]

6 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

That’s not Wheeler’s problem though. 

I agree-  I don’t have a side here I just think it’s interesting discussion..

[DitchPanda]

8 minutes ago, ajschn06 said:

I don’t know the ins and outs of the tournament world, but yes, a lot of the complaints seem to revolve around that- preferential treatment for bigger names in these scenarios 

How do they know its preferential treatment? If they have asked before for the same exact thing and been denied that's a legit issue. If they just assume that's how it is without asking and throw this out its more likely the real problem is they are just ticked that Wheeler is more successful than them. Dude notices things nobody else does and he capitalizes on them...just because he's a smarter more in tune angler doesn't make him a cheater. Now if he gets caught legit cheating that changes it...but as stated above that hasn't happened yet so there is nothing to talk about. Also he isn't living in the gray area he hasn't broken and rules written in black and white so he's living within the confines of what's acceptable. I understand being frustrated by his success for other guys but if you don't like it then start beating him...its your responsibility to become a better angler not his to become worse to get down to your level. Still don't like it? Well go get a regular job..take your ball and go home.

[ajschn06]

4 minutes ago, DitchPanda said:

How do they know its preferential treatment? If they have asked before for the same exact thing and been denied that's a legit issue. If they just assume that's how it is without asking and throw this out its more likely the real problem is they are just ticked that Wheeler is more successful than them. Dude notices things nobody else does and he capitalizes on them...just because he's a smarter more in tune angler doesn't make him a cheater. Now if he gets caught legit cheating that changes it...but as stated above that hasn't happened yet so there is nothing to talk about. Also he isn't living in the gray area he hasn't broken and rules written in black and white so he's living within the confines of what's acceptable. I understand being frustrated by his success for other guys but if you don't like it then start beating him...its your responsibility to become a better angler not his to become worse to get down to your level. Still don't like it? Well go get a regular job..take your ball and go home.

Well said