Wrapping Guides

[Michigander]

So I'm making good progress with my rod building skills, though I have very poor performance when it comes to ordering components, lol. Just placed my fourth order for parts for the same build. Forgot to order a size of winding check and forgot to order a tip top. Fail.

 

One thing that I would appreciate tips about is guide wrapping. I'm having trouble getting gapless wraps after I get up the ramp on the guide foot. I get up the ramp fine but for the first millimeter or two of the flat top section of the foot I keep getting some small gaps that I can't seem to burnish out. How can I improve this?

[wisconsin heat]

I'm on my fourth build right now and this still happens to me. One thing I did was change to size D thread. A bigger thread is easier to work with. Some say that smaller thread is more astheticly pleasing however so you may not want to do this. Another thing I have read (but have not tried) is filing down the foot of the guides so that it is a very smooth transition, especially where the tip meets the blank.

[S Hovanec]

Pack the thread every couple revolutions til you get the hang of it.

 

Another possibility is your thread feed is ahead if the wrap.  I wrap left to right, so my thread carriage is always to the left of the wrap progression.  The thread naturally stacks against the previous wrap because its pulling from the left.

[KCFinesse]

Make sure you're prepping the feet of your guides. I take a file to both the rod side and the outboard sides of the guide feet to make sure there are smooth transitions and no burrs anywhere. It really helps the thread to lay evenly.

 

-Jared

[Michigander]

3 minutes ago, KCFinesse said:

Make sure you're prepping the feet of your guides. I take a file to both the rod side and the outboard sides of the guide feet to make sure there are smooth transitions and no burrs anywhere. It really helps the thread to lay evenly.

 

-Jared

I have been filing the end of the guide foot but I can try filing the top too.

1 hour ago, S Hovanec said:

Pack the thread every couple revolutions til you get the hang of it.

 

Another possibility is your thread feed is ahead if the wrap.  I wrap left to right, so my thread carriage is always to the left of the wrap progression.  The thread naturally stacks against the previous wrap because its pulling from the left.

I'll pay attention to where my thread is feeding from, wasn't watching that.

1 hour ago, wisconsin heat said:

I'm on my fourth build right now and this still happens to me. One thing I did was change to size D thread. A bigger thread is easier to work with. Some say that smaller thread is more astheticly pleasing however so you may not want to do this. Another thing I have read (but have not tried) is filing down the foot of the guides so that it is a very smooth transition, especially where the tip meets the blank.

I'm using size A and am happy with it so far other than this little problem. The guides are on securely, I just want my wraps to look better, lol.

[KCFinesse]

Guides come manufactured with a beveled foot on the outboard side. I think in the process of adding coatings the bevel gets steeper and the coating rounds on the tip of the foot (blue in the attached picture). When I attack guides with a file, I try to flatten the knee of the bevel and eliminate the rounded tip. The last stroke or two with a file I'll put on the rod side of the foot to get the very edge of the foot level or pointed very slightly upwards to better stack wraps and make the transition to guide more seamless (red). It might be cheating a bit, but I build rods mostly for myself and I'm not that good! 

[Michigander]

39 minutes ago, KCFinesse said:

Guides come manufactured with a beveled foot on the outboard side. I think in the process of adding coatings the bevel gets steeper and the coating rounds on the tip of the foot (blue in the attached picture). When I attack guides with a file, I try to flatten the knee of the bevel and eliminate the rounded tip. The last stroke or two with a file I'll put on the rod side of the foot to get the very edge of the foot level or pointed very slightly upwards to better stack wraps and make the transition to guide more seamless (red). It might be cheating a bit, but I build rods mostly for myself and I'm not that good! 

My gaps are appearing after I get up the ramp on your red image and get a few turns into the flat plane at the top.

 

Cheating? No, if it's easier and a better end product then you're foolish not to do it. I'm also just building for myself, and maybe a gift rod or two someday. Fun winter hobby but I wouldn't want the stress of doing this for paying customers!

[spoonplugger1]

Going up the ramp naturally packs the thread on top, but not on the bottom so your thread has a slant to the left on a single foot, or the left foot on a double foot guide, than you start wrapping on the flat and the wraps all straighten up, leaving a gap on top. Pack the bottom to help straighten out things, don't be afraid to pack further than the guide foot if necessary on the bottom, things will get better as you move on extra packing the bottom to straighten the wrap to vertical. At least that is what I do when I have that problem. Good luck.

[Michigander]

1 minute ago, spoonplugger1 said:

Going up the ramp naturally packs the thread on top, but not on the bottom so your thread has a slant to the left on a single foot, or the left foot on a double foot guide, than you start wrapping on the flat and the wraps all straighten up, leaving a gap on top. Pack the bottom to help straighten out things, don't be afraid to pack further than the guide foot if necessary on the bottom, things will get better as you move on extra packing the bottom to straighten the wrap to vertical. At least that is what I do when I have that problem. Good luck.

Interesting, I will certainly try that on the next one! As soon as my reel seat gets here anyway.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

As suggested pack the thread often but also make sure you aren’t overlapping and also that the thread is not too tight to move when packing it. 

[bish0p]

I no longer file prep guide feet. For my ocean salt rods, if I use use guides like Fuji's CC models, I don't want to remove the surface that inhibits rust. Instead after I get 5 to 6 wraps onto the guide foot, I'll slightly pull the guide so the foot disappears under the thread. I've also stopped prepping the guide feet for my freshwater rods. I got the idea from rod builder Billy Vivona.

[Michigander]

5 hours ago, bish0p said:

I no longer file prep guide feet. For my ocean salt rods, if I use use guides like Fuji's CC models, I don't want to remove the surface that inhibits rust. Instead after I get 5 to 6 wraps onto the guide foot, I'll slightly pull the guide so the foot disappears under the thread. I've also stopped prepping the guide feet for my freshwater rods. I got the idea from rod builder Billy Vivona.

What direction are you pulling the guide?

[MickD]

He's pulling the guide "out from under" the thread wraps but not all the way out so that the wraps cover the foot of the guide and a little of the blank.  I believe it takes quite a few more wraps than 5 or 6, but maybe I'm misinterpreting what he is saying.  This works best with very small guides that are hard to fasten to the blank to get started wrapping; I've never done it with bigger guides.  You just start the wrapping on the guide foot itself, not the blank.  Then pull the guide.  It is quite tricky as it's easy to pull the guide all the way out.

[Lead Head]

I started off doing my guides this way but ended up just sanding them down. Often times when I would pull them forward it would leave a wrap or 2 a little loose and that would cause hard to eliminate gaps in the wrap. I'm betting on the thread and epoxy protecting the part of the guide foot where I remove coatings by sanding.