Guide Fishing Etiquette

[bassman97504]

I’m wondering what the etiquette is when fishing with a guide and learning new spots. Is it ok to mark fishing spots that you are shown on a phone app like the Navionics app or is this considered not ok etiquette? Is the expectation of a guide to really teach you more “where” to fish on a particular lake or is it more just go out there and get put on fish and catch fish and learn types of fishing patterns?  

So to be specific, if I move to a new area and tell the guide, hey there’s 3-4 new lakes I haven’t ever fished before and I’d like you to show my some hot spots and patterns on each of these lakes. So, I’d have them take me out 3-5 times in the next 6 months for learning different seasonal patterns on the different lakes. . Can I expect to be able to take out my phone and mark spots, take photos of the spots etc, or will this tick a guide off with me taking his hot spots?

 

 

[Bluebasser86]

That's probably going to depend a lot on the person an the type of fishing you're doing.

 

Me personally, I wouldn't really care because my spots aren't secret spots that I take people to. They're paying me for the up to date knowledge of which spots to be fishing, how and with what to be fishing them with. It's quite possible you'd come back to the same spot a week later and have minimal success at best with the same techniques or baits.

 

Now an offshore guide that is fishing deep brush piles that he's dropped or specific spots that he's found, no way I'd be trying to snap pictures of his coordinates or anything. Now I'm sure there's people that do, but to me it's not really an ethical thing to do. Not many, if any, offshore guides are going to sell you their good waypoints, which is basically what that would equate to. Learn from him, how he finds his spots and what he looks for on his electronics, to find your own hot spots. To me, part of the fun of fishing is figuring out the puzzle myself.

[CountryboyinDC]

I believe I would ask the guide up front, and let him or her know that was your intention.  I know that a lot of guides would get pretty ticked if you did that, particularly if you didn't mention it up front.  I don't take a lot of guided trips, so take this for what it's worth.  For example, there's a guide on the New River in Virginia that won't let you have a powered-on phone on you on the raft.  If you want to take pictures, bring a camera that has no GPS capabilities.  I understand and respect what they're doing - I know how long it takes to find spots.  But there may be someone else like @Bluebasser86 that can show you a more general approach of fishing a lake near you.

[MGF]

My experience with guides is pretty limited but the guys I've fished with shared a fair amount of information. Naturally most of it relates to current conditions. GPS wouldn't have been needed to get back to the same spots or employ the same methods.

 

Personally I'm more interested in learning to find fish on my own than just learning somebody else's spots.

 

On another note, the guides I've used had equipment and/or skills that were a big help in catching fish.  No secret spots but it would still be difficult to do as well without the guide...under those conditions.

[NYWayfarer]

My Dad and I took a charter out of the same place every summer at our favorite lake.

 

We requested the same guide every time and learned a lot about fishing and where to fish from him. One year, I will never forget it, we pulled up to a spot and there was a boat already there. The guide waved to the guy and he waved back.

 

We moved to another spot and our guide told me that he knew that boat owner. He was someone who he took out on a guided trip a few years back and now he encounters him at several of the spots he took him to.

 

Our guide told me he didn’t mind but he wished the guy would move on when he saw him coming as he is just trying to make a living.

[Dwight Hottle]

Ask him first for his permission.

I fished with a guide in the gulf who would confront any customer who copied his gps coordinates. He created a few federally illegal reefs by dumping concrete. Stealing his coordinates was considered stealing his livelihood. He would confiscate your phone or GPS if he caught you. Extreme case example but true. 
It all depends on the circumstances. Ask him first for his permission. I’m sure he will tailor his approach knowing what your expectations are. 

[billmac]

I think I would focus on asking the guide what makes a particular spot a "spot".  I think if you focus on spots, even if your guide doesn't care, you are limiting yourself.  Better to learn why a particular place has fish, then you can find these places on your own.  One of the things that was impressed upon me when I first started following the BASS tournament trail, was that locals seldom won these tournaments.  They simply weren't knowledgeable or flexible enough to adapt to changing conditions.

 

To be fair, you did say spots and patterns.  If a guide won't instruct you on the patterns, I would find another guide.  That will be the difference between catching fish, and learning to catch fish.

[TOXIC]

As a guide and if you told me upfront that you wanted to learn a body of water for all seasons, then there’s a good chance we wouldn’t be doing much fishing.  Instead of a fishing guide, I would switch to a tour guide and happily show you different areas that were good at different times of the year.  I would tell you why and give suggestions on lures.  I would not mind you marking spots because I would be showing you areas more than specific spots.  I never minded if past clients fished spots I took them to because I live by the adage that you’re not gonna catch another man’s fish.  I took a lot of tournament anglers out to educate them on current patterns and areas.  I was always very happy when I would get a call from them after a tx and they would tell me the areas were spot on.  

[Junk Fisherman]

I would just be honest with him and tell him what you have in mind.  Ask him to show you the general fishing areas and how to fish the seasonal patterns of the lake.  It's doubtful he is going to show you his best spots anyways. 

 

I have done this with a couple guides before and they were great.   One in particular, I hired to help me fish the smallmouth spawn up north since I had never done it before.  He showed me everything to look for in terms of prespawn, spawners, and postspawn.  Over the course of the day I asked him about the rest of the seasonal patterns.  I learned soooo much from him that day.  It increased my learning curve ten fold plus it was a fun day on the water.  And the funny thing is, I rarely fish the spots he took me to that day.   

 

 

 

[Mike L]

As a co angler fishing with guides and pro’s for 12 yrs I never took waypoints. Never asked. 
I pay attention to areas, patterns and conditions. 
Seen too many times that “spots” change, they hardly ever stay the same. 
 

If somebody wanted to know where the best frog water was in the summer on my home lake, or where the most likely bedding areas are in late winter early spring, or where to Carolina rig over humps..Those I learned by paying attention and asking them about their why’s and when’s. 
 

 

 

 

Mike 

[Captain Phil]

7 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

Me personally, I wouldn't really care because my spots aren't secret spots that I take people to. They're paying me for the up to date knowledge of which spots to be fishing, how and with what to be fishing them with. It's quite possible you'd come back to the same spot a week later and have minimal success at best with the same techniques or baits. 

Before I booked a charter, I always asked the client what they expected.  If a client expected to catch a pile of fish, I would most likely recommend another captain.  My best clients were anglers who wanted to learn new water or new techniques.  It was always a thrill to receive a photo of a nice fish one of them caught after fishing with me. 

 

I didn't worry about giving away secret spots as most anglers who book a guide can't catch fish even if you put them on fish. Professional tournament anglers are different.   They aren't looking for secret spots, they want to know how I catch fish on my home waters.  Some of the anglers I have had sitting in the back of my boat have won over a million dollars lifetime tournament fishing.  It's laughable that I could teach them anything. I always enjoyed fishing with knowledgeable fisherman.  Booking a client who wants to catch bass like they do on TV is asking for trouble.

[Mike L]

6 minutes ago, Captain Phil said:

Before I booked a charter, I always asked the client what they expected.  If a client expected to catch a pile of fish, I would most likely recommend another captain.  My best clients were anglers who wanted to learn new water or new techniques.  It was always a thrill to receive a photo of a nice fish one of them caught after fishing with me.  

 

Professional tournament anglers are different.   They aren't looking for secret spots, they want to know how I catch fish on my home waters.  Some of the anglers I have had sitting in the back of my boat have won over a million dollars lifetime tournament fishing.  It's laughable that I could teach them anything. I always enjoyed fishing with knowledgeable fisherman.  Booking a client who wants to catch bass like they do on TV is asking for trouble.

Exactly right about “professional tournament anglers”

But folks who hire a guide aren’t those. 
 

If they spent more time to learn areas, patterns and conditions like I mentioned they’d learn more and be more successful for the long haul. 
 

 

 

 

[Mike L]

A few years ago a VERY famous pro tour angler fished a BFL after taking a long protracted break from the tour. 
He wanted to “ come back slow” so he entered the first 2 events. 
I was fortunate enough to draw him as my boater the first day. 
 

After the draws were announced we met up and I stated to ask my normal questions that I ask before every tournament.... Where to meet, can I bring breakfast, Can I bring 6 rods and a mid sized bag, do you have a plan on where to start etc etc. 

 

After launching, he turned and said..,

” I asked about you as I do about all my co-angler draws and was relieved to learn that I can trust your honor”

I said of course, but asked what he meant. 
He told me that we were going to a few places that he only goes to when he’s alone. Never with someone else especially in a tournament, but wanted to go because the conditions were right to try a few things he wanted to use at his first tour date upcoming. 
 

The point is, if I tried to “steal” waypoints in previous tournaments from other boaters, I’d be done before I started. 
 

And yes, I said steal. 

It’s just the way I feel

 

 

 

Mike

[Glenn]

17 minutes ago, Mike L said:

And yes, I said steal. 

That's not how I interpret it. It sounds like he was concerned you would tell everyone about the spots.  He had an upcoming tournament and didn't want those spots to get hammered.

[Mike L]

34 minutes ago, Glenn said:

That's not how I interpret it. It sounds like he was concerned you would tell everyone about the spots.  He had an upcoming tournament and didn't want those spots to get hammered.

Yes, that’s the point. 
If I took them and either used them myself or gave them to someone else. 
 

To me it’s the same thing. 

 

 

Mike

[roadwarrior]

I have fished with a lot of guides over the years. Get your business done up front, on the phone.

#1  I want the guide to fish in order to locate bass and try to determine what works, but once he

       catches a fish or two he's done fishing. 

#2  We want to target BIG fish, win or lose.

#3  We're from out of town and your secrets will not be shared.

#4  Take it easy, old guys like us want a smooth ride.

 

[Glenn]

36 minutes ago, Mike L said:

f I took them and either used them myself or gave them to someone else. 
 

To me it’s the same thing. 

I think it's ok for you to use them yourself; just not blab them around to everyone else.  That's how I see it.

 

[Glenn]

I've been with many guides.  Usually I just want a good day on the water when I don't have access to a boat.  So I really don't care about waypointing anything, or telling people where we went.  Usually it's on a new lake (to me), so I couldn't tell you even if I wanted to. LOL

 

However, I did once hire a guide to learn how to navigate hazardous waters in my own boat and a new body of water I had never fished.  With his permission, we went in my boat, and drove all over hill-and-dale for 4 hours, making trails along all the safe routes - especially in hazardous areas where there weren't any maps available.  We stopped to fish a couple of times because, hey, you just can't go on the water without fishing! LOL 

 

But really, the trip was about saving my lower unit on subsequent trips, not learning "his spots".  I spent hundreds of hours later finding my own areas and learning the water even more.

 

If you want a guide to teach you the water, have him show you how to fish it and pattern it, rather than showing you spots.

 

So, it's all about knowing what you want in a trip, and being upfront with your guide before you go.

[king fisher]

Communication before the trip is key.  Ask the guide before you book the trip what his rules are.  If you don't like his rules, politely tell him why.  He may come up with a compromise, that both parties are happy with, or may recommend you book with some one else.  Either way, good communication can save both time, and money for all involved.

[mcipinkie]

I'm not criticizing anyone, just putting out my beliefs.

 

I'm 74 years old, been fishing all my life.  Probably started 65-70 years ago.   Fished my first bass tournament in 1975, so have some experience.

 

I never have, nor never will, hire a guide.  To me, it's not about catching fish.  It's about figuring it out and finding them, then catching them  Same way in hunting.  I know guys that hire a guide.  He puts them on a deer or turkey stand, and they shoot one, and call them selves hunters.

 

Several years ago (2004), my tournament partner and I qualified for a national circuit classic in eastern Tennessee.  We drove 600 plus miles over there, spent a week pre-fishing, swung for the fences and went home with our tails between our legs.  The guys that won, and this was within the rules, hired a guide.  He told them to sit right here, throw a brown jig across that hump for two days and you will win this tournament.  They did and did win.  Two new boats.  Just didn't seem right.

 

Now I understand the real world.  A lot of guys don't have boats suitable to go fish a big lake.  Don't have the experience, and don't want to spend the time it, to get out on Toledo Bend or Sam Rayburn or some giant body of water and catch fish, but not me.  I'll earn it myself, or I won't have it.

 

Just my $0.02.  If you disagree, welcome to your opinion. 

[TOXIC]

Let’s not forget that everyone who hires a guide is not either a tournament fisherman or a regular weekend warrior.  The majority of my clients were people who didn’t fish regularly, if at all, or they were parents wanting to spend some quality time with their kids all wanting to catch some fish in the process.  There’s competition and there’s fun, don’t get the 2 confused.  If hiring a guide challenges your fishing manhood, then by all means don’t do it.  

[Mike L]

10 hours ago, mcipinkie said:

I'm not criticizing anyone, just putting out my beliefs.

 

I'm 74 years old, been fishing all my life.  Probably started 65-70 years ago.   Fished my first bass tournament in 1975, so have some experience.

 

I never have, nor never will, hire a guide.  To me, it's not about catching fish.  It's about figuring it out and finding them, then catching them  Same way in hunting.  I know guys that hire a guide.  He puts them on a deer or turkey stand, and they shoot one, and call them selves hunters.

 

Several years ago (2004), my tournament partner and I qualified for a national circuit classic in eastern Tennessee.  We drove 600 plus miles over there, spent a week pre-fishing, swung for the fences and went home with our tails between our legs.  The guys that won, and this was within the rules, hired a guide.  He told them to sit right here, throw a brown jig across that hump for two days and you will win this tournament.  They did and did win.  Two new boats.  Just didn't seem right.

 

Now I understand the real world.  A lot of guys don't have boats suitable to go fish a big lake.  Don't have the experience, and don't want to spend the time it, to get out on Toledo Bend or Sam Rayburn or some giant body of water and catch fish, but not me.  I'll earn it myself, or I won't have it.

 

Just my $0.02.  If you disagree, welcome to your opinion. 

Well Said

 

 

 

 

Mike

[roadwarrior]

2 hours ago, TOXIC said:

Let’s not forget that everyone who hires a guide is not either a tournament fisherman or a regular weekend warrior.  The majority of my clients were people who didn’t fish regularly, if at all, or they were parents wanting to spend some quality time with their kids all wanting to catch some fish in the process.  There’s competition and there’s fun, don’t get the 2 confused.  If hiring a guide challenges your fishing manhood, then by all means don’t do it.  

 

I like "fishing", but I like "catching" a lot more.  Most of my trips to new water involves

a day or two driving one way. In January I drove to Orlando, about twenty hours one

way for three days on Lake ToHo.  The "lake" is basically open water in the middle of

a HUGE swamp. No real structure or deep water, just grass as far as you can see. 

 

We (ghoti & me) started fishing in what appeared to be open water in the middle of

the lake in a wide boat lane. Duh...Do you think we would have chosen this spot on

our own?  Gary started us off with a 9+ and we never moved! I think we boated eight

bass total, including my Personal Best.

 

I like fishing with a guide.

 

[Cdn Angler]

Inputting stuff on GPS is one thing, but you can't unsee something. If I see another fisherman killing it in a spot by chance, am I not going to try to fish there myself in the future? To me that's basically the same as seeing fish busting. Am I going to go there that day? Probably not. If a guide takes you out, it's not hard to remember where you went. 

 

Now if it is a guide, that's their livelihood. So I might fish their spots a bit, but I'm not going to hammer them or broadcast them widely, nor go there when a guide is working.  Or if I see him I'll move on to another place. 

 

Tournament angling changes things as people will overstep all norms/basic decency to "win."  I don't fish derbys for this reason. 

[TnRiver46]

19 hours ago, mcipinkie said:

I'm not criticizing anyone, just putting out my beliefs.

 

I'm 74 years old, been fishing all my life.  Probably started 65-70 years ago.   Fished my first bass tournament in 1975, so have some experience.

 

I never have, nor never will, hire a guide.  To me, it's not about catching fish.  It's about figuring it out and finding them, then catching them  Same way in hunting.  I know guys that hire a guide.  He puts them on a deer or turkey stand, and they shoot one, and call them selves hunters.

 

Several years ago (2004), my tournament partner and I qualified for a national circuit classic in eastern Tennessee.  We drove 600 plus miles over there, spent a week pre-fishing, swung for the fences and went home with our tails between our legs.  The guys that won, and this was within the rules, hired a guide.  He told them to sit right here, throw a brown jig across that hump for two days and you will win this tournament.  They did and did win.  Two new boats.  Just didn't seem right.

 

Now I understand the real world.  A lot of guys don't have boats suitable to go fish a big lake.  Don't have the experience, and don't want to spend the time it, to get out on Toledo Bend or Sam Rayburn or some giant body of water and catch fish, but not me.  I'll earn it myself, or I won't have it.

 

Just my $0.02.  If you disagree, welcome to your opinion. 

Which lake in East TN was your classic on? And which hump to throw the brown jig on? (Asking for a a friend....)