Randy Blaukat weighs in...

[Paul Roberts]

16 hours ago, mcipinkie said:

Maybe we all ought to throw hand lines.  Certainly the pure types that deal in the nuances.  Take out all those rods, reels, gears, handles, bearings, brakes, drags.  Get down to true, pure fishing.

It gets tiresome reading posts from people who have not read the thread and therefore cannot participate in the conversation. Opinions are easy; Knowledge takes work.

 

9 hours ago, Captain Phil said:

I've been back reeling bass for years.  Done right, it's much more effective than relying on a "stack of washers".  Bass don't normally run far enough or long enough to be a problem.  Try back reeling a 10 pound bone fish and see how that works!   Today's reel drags are much better than what we had in the sixties.  My opinion may be different if I was starting out today.

Thanks for the input, Phil. Oh, and I addressed the "long-running speedsters" above. Agree! Although I've done 10lb steelhead, with room to run, and... would do it again. But, I'd like to have some specific alterations done on most spinning reels.

 

Gord Pyzer, (from the article Brian provided):

"If you have never tried it, do it sometime and you simply will not believe the control you have over a big fish. In fact, what will amaze you even more is how differently a big bass or walleye will behave when you backreel it, rather than let it pull out drag. It is shocking."

 

Gee, Gord is more direct than I, actually suggesting people try it! 

 

What Mr. Pyzer is referring to is very real, and I merely touched on it in my above posts. I learned a ton about fighting what I came to call "neutrally-buoyant hydrofoils" by catching big fast fish by back-reeling spinning gear, often on light tackle, and by single-action fly-fishing gear. This is not a brag, or a joust. I'm pretty much done jousting here. People can either participate in, or at least hear, what's being presented here, or not. What Gord is referring to is by letting fish chirp off so much as a couple inches of line changes the fight, giving fish moments of control that prolong the fight -and also, increase the chances for loss, esp so where there is snaggy cover. Here's an example most bass fishers will have some experience with. When flipping or punching in heavy cover, why do we not want to give so much as an inch of line on a strike? Why would we lock down the drag, sometimes with pliers? Because we cannot let that fish turn away from us.

 

With spinning gear -in any situation, heavy cover, heavy lines, or not- when your AR is off and drag locked down you decide when to give, not the fish. And fishing lines have a LOT more strength in them than one might think, when tethered to a neutrally-buoyant hydrofoil. Ever snag bottom with 4lb mono and have it tow your boat? Fish weight means little, it's the fins and body depth that do the fighting. Sure, using a heavily set drag might work almost as well, but then... you hook a BIG one, and/or will soon have to deal that fish at boat-side, having to reset that drag (there goes the carefully calibrated preset) or start yanking line.

 

The safety margin recommended for a drag setting does not max out your tackle, something you have the luxury of doing as a back-reeler. In back-reeling you get to learn just how much pressure you can actually exert, and can adjust, back off instantly, if your line was possibly nicked, or the knot has had a few too many fish before you finally hook the big one.

 

Team9nine's comment questioning how much effort we die-hards put into our gear to maximize sensitivity, performance, and experiences out there, yet cannot listen to a conversation that has some real merit, and is commonly done by many Pro's,  highlights something unfortunate. Understandable, but unfortunate. There's more Pro's back-reeling than many fishers are aware of it appears. And quite frankly, some of the pro's that don't back-reel can look pretty silly at times, to someone who applies back-reeling to their game. 

 

The number of times I've watched anglers try to deal with a big hydrofoil on a short line (esp back in my big trout and steelheading days) and see their drag giving the fish it's way, was... hard to watch. The way people learn to deal with this, and you'll see it in the surf too, is clamp a hand onto that darn offending reel spool, and walk backwards (if there's room). What's happening here solves a number of ills, but is something that actually could be at play over the entire fight, affecting how the fish responds throughout. If you are having to "pump" your fish in, to work around a safe drag setting, you are not using your complete rig to its maximum efficiency, are giving that fish control, and sending fear-evoking signals, that prolongs the fight. Fish don't have to be worn out to give up. They can be beaten psychologically too. (Enter the Twlight Zone theme song ).

 

Lastly, I doubt sponsors would want their back-reeling pro's not touting the top selling point of a "super-smooth drag". It's one of the things we pay extra for with high-end reels. Interesting that most reels still have an anti-reverse though. What would many of those pros say if the AR switch disappeared on all reels I wonder? I'd sure as heck be up in arms. I have even designed, on paper, a back-reelers spinning reel. And there it sits, on paper, bc most fishers would freak out if they saw a reel without a drag! How could that be??! What happens if I hook a big one? Well... that's where it would shine.

 

[OkobojiEagle]

The Pyzer article is very good!  He touches on the concept that a large fish will often calm their aggressive fight when they encounter less pressure from the line.  Doug Hannon has written about "leading" large bass from heavy cover with light line and light pressure.  This has been my experience also and probably the unspoken reason some, no many... actually most "backreelers" refuse to "come out of the darkness".

 

I don't think there is a backreeler today that cares if anyone else uses this technique as it an advantage in their favor over other anglers, but we do get a little perturbed when not given the option as Shimano and others are beginning to do.

 

oe

[Team9nine]

11 minutes ago, OkobojiEagle said:

The Pyzer article is very good!  He touches on the concept that a large fish will often calm their aggressive fight when they encounter less pressure from the line.  Doug Hannon has written about "leading" large bass from heavy cover with light line and light pressure".

 

oe

 

I’ve mentioned this before, but one of the best ways to stop a big fish from jumping is to let off the pressure slightly, via backreeling, the moment you feel him turn and head up toward the surface...and you will feel it immediately as a backreeler. Heck, most times, I can feel how deep a fish has the bait in his mouth long before I ever get that fish close enough to actually see. I can immediately play them accordingly right from the get-go, and never risk a break-off from excess line abrasion.

 

On leading a fish, Guido Hibdon was another huge proponent of leading a fish on light line out of “trouble” before applying a hook set.

[Paul Roberts]

Yeah, there's lots going on down there that having complete control of line tension tunes us in to. Phew!

 

I know it would be scary to lock down the drag and flick off that AR for most fishers. And there's going to be a learning curve there to get familiar and comfortable with it. I would guess though that most fishers that have some experience under their belts fighting fish would catch on pretty quick. Not saying anyone even needs to try it. I am not as daring as Gord, or Randy. Become much too gun-shy over the years.

 

The biggest hassle I could see is not when a fish is hooked. Heck that's easy, having a fish keeping tension on the line for us. It's having the rotor roll backwards when there isn't tension on the line coming off the reel, which can loose some loops. And we know what unchecked loops can do. It's almost like there are mean little spirits that exist in lines.  

 

The trick is to always keep tension on the line, and control the rotor with the fingers of the rod hand, draping fingers (how many depending on where exactly you hold your rod) onto the rotor. That becomes second nature pretty quick, otherwise the line demons remind you. I remember a picture of Al Lindner holding a large crappie caught on UL, with his single little finger holding the rotor. Not sure many people would have noticed.

 

19 hours ago, Team9nine said:

 

I’ve mentioned this before, but one of the best ways to stop a big fish from jumping is to let off the pressure slightly, via backreeling, the moment you feel him turn and head up toward the surface...and you will feel it immediately as a backreeler.

Yes, I feel it alright. But, I've never done that. I'm paranoid about giving up pressure. I usually do the opposite, drop the rod to the side and pull, trying to keep the fish down. I might give that a try... maybe. 

[GReb]

Some of the younger bunch may not back reel but I have seen more than a couple grab the line and pull out drag by hand while fighting fish. The more control I have as an angler the better. Drag washer be dang

 

Also the theory of applying light pressure and guiding a fish away from cover has absolutely worked for me on numerous occasions. I only apply the technique when hooking up on a long cast. The angles are more in your favor

[OCdockskipper]

On 11/29/2020 at 8:07 AM, 12poundbass said:

That’s like being in the CIA and being told there’s a mole in the mix. Now we’re all going to question each other. 
 

Here are my guesses: 

@A-Jay is really Seth Feider

@Team9nine is really Jacob Wheeler

@Catt is really Harold Allen

 

I could go on and on with my suspicions. ?

I'm surprised you didn't figure out that I am actually Mike Iaconelli.

 

The frequent bannings should have been the giveaway.

[Captain Phil]

  

1 hour ago, OkobojiEagle said:

The Pyzer article is very good!  He touches on the concept that a large fish will often calm their aggressive fight when they encounter less pressure from the line. 

 

This isn't about bass fishing, but it's on the current subject.  Years ago I had the pleasure to regularly fish with Marsha Bierman. You should Google her.  Among her many accomplishments was developing a light tackle stand up sport fishing method for huge marlin.  It always amazed me how much drag she could put on those fish without breaking off.  She would literally whip those big fish into submission.  I once took her snook fishing in my flats boat.  On that trip, she hooked a 25 pound snook in Mosquito Pass out of Everglades City.  On the first jump, she pulled it down so hard the fish gave up and came to the boat.  She told me you have to show the fish who's boss.  

[Paul Roberts]

Looking her up now.

 

From the SunSentinal:

"Marsha Bierman always knew stand-up fishing was effective. But chances are even she didn't know how effective until March 19. That was the day Bierman caught and released a Pacific blue marlin estimated at 1,270 pounds on 50-pound stand-up tackle. She needed only 18 minutes to catch the fish using a Penn International II 1755 stand-up rod and a Penn International 50SW reel fishing off the Pacific coast of Panama."

 

From her website:

Marsha has over 2,500 billfish captures to her credit, 300 of which are Blue and Black Marlin, the largest of the gamefishes.  She has tagged and released all nine of the billfish species and all three of the major tunas. These feats become magnified because they were achieved on nothing heavier than standup short rods and 50-pound line.

[Captain Phil]

I haven't fished with Marsha since we moved to Central Florida 25 years ago.  Both her and her husband Lenny were classy people who loved fishing.  They used to kid me about bass fishing saying their bait was bigger than my fish.   ?

[WRB]

1 hour ago, Paul Roberts said:

Looking her up now.

 

From the SunSentinal:

"Marsha Bierman always knew stand-up fishing was effective. But chances are even she didn't know how effective until March 19. That was the day Bierman caught and released a Pacific blue marlin estimated at 1,270 pounds on 50-pound stand-up tackle. She needed only 18 minutes to catch the fish using a Penn International II 1755 stand-up rod and a Penn International 50SW reel fishing off the Pacific coast of Panama."

 

From her website:

Marsha has over 2,500 billfish captures to her credit, 300 of which are Blue and Black Marlin, the largest of the gamefishes.  She has tagged and released all nine of the billfish species and all three of the major tunas. These feats become magnified because they were achieved on nothing heavier than standup short rods and 50-pound line.

A fish that can run 1,000 yards at full speed something is going to give unless the boat chases down the fish and that is what is done. The marlin is fighting the boat and the angler is hanging on trying to keep the in front as the captain maneuvers the boat.

Not fan of chasing down fish with the boat but positioning the boat is a necessary with big fast fish.  

Drags are necessary using light line, you should back reel or disengage the spool on fast big fish weigh 2X+ the line.

Different strokes for different folks.

Tom     

  

[Paul Roberts]

10 minutes ago, WRB said:

A fish that can run 1,000 yards at full speed something is going to give unless the boat chases down the fish and that is what is done. The marlin is fighting the boat and the angler is hanging on trying to keep the in front as the captain maneuvers the boat.

Not fan of chasing down fish with the boat but positioning the boat is a necessary with big fast fish.  

Drags are necessary using light line, you should back reel or disengage the spool on fast big fish weigh 2X+ the line.

Different strokes for different folks.

Tom     

  

Yeah, that makes sense. Although she still has to get it more or less calm at boatside to tag or photo. She’s doing something right to get it done so quickly.
 

As to big fish on light line, I can see that. When I was playing with 2kg lines (and I consider that a stunt not worth repeating except for the lessons gleaned), I found i had to “bow to” a large heavy trout when it leapt, like tarpon fishers do, bc the fish (out of the water and suddenly having weight) could break a taut line by falling on it.

[GReb]

22 minutes ago, WRB said: 

Drags are necessary using light line, you should back reel or disengage the spool on fast big fish weigh 2X+ the line.

  

Interesting nugget. Unfortunately that is something I’ll likely never have to worry about

[12poundbass]

3 hours ago, OCdockskipper said:

I'm surprised you didn't figure out that I am actually Mike Iaconelli.

 

The frequent bannings should have been the giveaway.

You’ve been so quiet I forgot about you. Now I know why you’ve been so quiet. 

[Glenn]

5 hours ago, OCdockskipper said:

The frequent bannings should have been the giveaway.

A few warnings, yes. But "bannings"?  Nope.  You're still here.  Obviously, because you're still posting away.

 

When somebody is banned, that's it. They're done here.

[OCdockskipper]

1 hour ago, Glenn said:

A few warnings, yes. But "bannings"?  Nope.  You're still here.  Obviously, because you're still posting away.

 

When somebody is banned, that's it. They're done here.

 

You're stepping all over my punchline .

 

You are correct, I could have written "suspensions" or "warnings", but the word "banning" seems to have more punch when talking about getting in trouble on an internet forum (i.e., facebook ban, twitter ban, etc).

 

Now I'm stepping all over my punchline trying to diagram the joke... 

[Paul Roberts]

On 12/2/2020 at 5:10 AM, Captain Phil said:

I've been back reeling bass for years.  Done right, it's much more effective than relying on a "stack of washers".  Bass don't normally run far enough or long enough to be a problem.  Try back reeling a 10 pound bone fish and see how that works!   Today's reel drags are much better than what we had in the sixties.  My opinion may be different if I was starting out today.

Agreed. I learned bc the experts of the day did it. If I were starting now my “opinion” might be different bc I likely never developed the experience.

[Gary_Snyder]

Oh no, the backreeling topic again. Nonsense! 

 

Sure, I used to backreel - when I was eleven, did not know how to set a drag, and had a reel with a bent wire for bail wire (no line roller!). But I grew up.

 

Me and my buddies have been powerfishing plastics with light spinning gear and line (ten pound mono and now fluoro) for decades........we do the full Bill Dance hookset and rely on the drags to spin a little on a hard hookset.......... if the drags were not adequate, there would be no way we could get away with this technique without breaking the light line. 

 

If you get a huge fish and are concerned the line might be nicked, just turn the drag down a little during the fight, it's so easy to do with just a little practice.

 

However, we don't use leaders - I've never found a line-to-line leader knot that I liked, so a leader knot might be a weak point.

 

I'm sorry, but grow up and learn how to fish!

[Bluebasser86]

9 hours ago, Gary_Snyder said:

Oh no, the backreeling topic again. Nonsense! 

 

Sure, I used to backreel - when I was eleven, did not know how to set a drag, and had a reel with a bent wire for bail wire (no line roller!). But I grew up.

 

Me and my buddies have been powerfishing plastics with light spinning gear and line (ten pound mono and now fluoro) for decades........we do the full Bill Dance hookset and rely on the drags to spin a little on a hard hookset.......... if the drags were not adequate, there would be no way we could get away with this technique without breaking the light line. 

 

If you get a huge fish and are concerned the line might be nicked, just turn the drag down a little during the fight, it's so easy to do with just a little practice.

 

However, we don't use leaders - I've never found a line-to-line leader knot that I liked, so a leader knot might be a weak point.

 

I'm sorry, but grow up and learn how to fish!

Different strokes for different folks.

 

I back reel because it gives me more control over a fish than the drag does. I get 100% of the say on when and how much like the fish takes and can instantaneously decide to add to take away pressure without taking my hand off the reel handle to mess with the drag.

 

It's not a matter of "growing up", it's what works best for the person executing the technique. A lot of people can't get the back reeling technique down and prefer to use the drag, that's fine. I'm using small baits on light line for big, hard pulling fish that are often lightly hooked or hooked near cover where being able to quickly put some heat on them or take some off of them is crucial in landing fish and I'm 100% certain I've landed fish I would have lost if I was counting on my drag the whole time.

[PhishLI]

10 hours ago, Gary_Snyder said:

Oh no, the backreeling topic again. Nonsense! 

 

10 hours ago, Gary_Snyder said:

Sure, I used to backreel - when I was eleven

 

10 hours ago, Gary_Snyder said:

I'm sorry, but grow up and learn how to fish!

Belligerent drunk posts are so much fun! Keep 'em coming?