Randy Blaukat weighs in...

[garroyo130]

This thread makes me sick. 

 

I can't believe no one has mentioned the lost art of removing the AR bearing from baitcasters so they can be backreeled too

[Team9nine]

1 minute ago, garroyo130 said:

This thread makes me sick. 

 

I can't believe no one has mentioned the lost art of removing the AR bearing from baitcasters so they can be backreeled too

 

That’s why they created the thumb bar. It works better than a washer stack, too. But the AR bearing was the death of the art of deep cranking ?

[12poundbass]

On 11/27/2020 at 6:58 PM, Glenn said:

I know of several that are quite active here under benign aliases

That’s like being in the CIA and being told there’s a mole in the mix. Now we’re all going to question each other. 
 

Here are my guesses: 

@A-Jay is really Seth Feider

@Team9nine is really Jacob Wheeler

@Catt is really Harold Allen

 

I could go on and on with my suspicions. ?

[Paul Roberts]

My 1984 Shimano Bantam has an AR switch. I like to cast with it off, so I can watch that handle spin. Just like gramps used to do. Boy he could catch em too!

 

More seriously, I was never sure what that was for, trolling perhaps? No, with casting reels, instead of backreeling I end up... you know... fiddling with the drag, stripping line off by hand, or pressing the bar, simply bc those washers can't adjust themselves on the fly. Something I just don't have to worry about with spinning reels.

[OkobojiEagle]

37 minutes ago, garroyo130 said:

This thread makes me sick. 

 

I can't believe no one has mentioned the lost art of removing the AR bearing from baitcasters so they can be backreeled too

Doesn't actually "backreel", but I fish my Lew's BB1L (no AR bearing) nearly every outing...

 

oe

[A-Jay]

1 hour ago, 12poundbass said:

That’s like being in the CIA and being told there’s a mole in the mix. Now we’re all going to question each other. 
 

Here are my guesses: 

@A-Jay is really Seth Feider

@Team9nine is really Jacob Wheeler

@Catt is really Harold Allen

 

I could go on and on with my suspicions. ?

I am going to need to completely rethink my hairdo !

#mulletsrule

A-Jay 

 

[Paul Roberts]

1 hour ago, OkobojiEagle said:

Doesn't actually "backreel", but I fish my Lew's BB1L (no AR bearing) nearly every outing...

 

oe

My Bantam has backward play in the handle. Never been a problem, but rattles some.

[Tim Kelly]

I really enjoy Randy's you tube films. He seems like a really nice bloke who's trying his best, but also seems to recognise that the world he used to compete in is getting further behind him. I hope he and his style of fishing can remain relevant, but wonder whether that can be the case. 

 

The backreeling thing and the braid to fluoro thing amuse me. Whatever works for you I suppose, but it seems odd to proclaim that you have the correct answer, because you have been doing it for 30 years, yet get all defensive when people call him out. 

 

American bass anglers, even the pros, seem to be afraid of spinning gear. Here in Europe it is much more commonly used than casting gear. People play fish efficiently on it with no anxiety. Watching pro bass angler ***** footing around with super slack drags, making 7 or 8 individual movements just to open a bail and make a cast, and not being able to control the flight of the lure just seem to demonstrate a lack of understanding and mastery of spinning tackle.  I enjoy baitcasting gear as much as anyone, skipping and pitching are definite skills to master, but using spinning tackle takes a similar level of practise and understanding to use well, it's just that it's obvious when you can't use casting gear, but you can get by with spinning gear.

[DitchPanda]

Ok ok you backreelers have me interested in the old school. I'm gonna disconnect my brakes in my truck, cut my floorboards out and use my feet Fred Flintstone style. Time to get Archaic up in here

[Team9nine]

1 hour ago, DitchPanda said:

Ok ok you backreelers have me interested in the old school. I'm gonna disconnect my brakes in my truck, cut my floorboards out and use my feet Fred Flintstone style. Time to get Archaic up in here

 

It has nothing to do with going "old school." I'd fish the same with a $1,000 Stella as I would a $30 Sienna. It's all about control, and whether you want to give it to an expensive stack of washers and a spool plastic release/drag knob, or give it to yourself instead.

Same with the AR bearing for deep cranking.

Same with running your depthfinder in auto.

Same with thumb barring a baitcaster.

Most anglers are obviously very happy with just taking the technology route and calling it a day, and that technology has progressed to the point that allows most to take the path of least resistance and still benefit 95% of the time. Good for you guys. You paid for it, and have lots of company, but you give up a little something in the process. A few of us just prefer not to settle for the trade-off. We like nuances 

[DitchPanda]

2 hours ago, Team9nine said:

 

It has nothing to do with going "old school." I'd fish the same with a $1,000 Stella as I would a $30 Sienna. It's all about control, and whether you want to give it to an expensive stack of washers and a spool plastic release/drag knob, or give it to yourself instead.

Same with the AR bearing for deep cranking.

Same with running your depthfinder in auto.

Same with thumb barring a baitcaster.

Most anglers are obviously very happy with just taking the technology route and calling it a day, and that technology has progressed to the point that allows most to take the path of least resistance and still benefit 95% of the time. Good for you guys. You paid for it, and have lots of company, but you give up a little something in the process. A few of us just prefer not to settle for the trade-off. We like nuances 

Well I was just kinda having fun and playing around with the back reel guys the way you guys are playing around with us drag guys and our stack of washers. To me old school isn't an insult...but I believe something that used to be the dominate method that has since changed and 95% of people are no longer doing it is old school. The biggest thing I don't get about it is the money involved..take for example the Stella. When you put alot of money into a spinning reel you are getting refinement in all areas...weight, cast ability and drag performance. Drag performance is a huge one so I can't see spending that kind of money for that refinement and just backreeling. Of course this is just my way of thinking and I'm definitely not saying its the right or only way.

Out if curiosity what is the no AR bearing for deep cranking thing? I'm not a deep cranker but I'm curious

[Kev-mo]

back reeling is how i learned to fish and there's days i think i should go back to that.

since i mostly wade i'm usually carrying one rod and trying multiple presentations. 

i'll adjust the drag for say float and fly versus a bitsy bug. if i forget to re-adjust drag i lose fish like this past weekend when i lost what felt like my best fish on fnf cause my drag was a skosh too tight and i couldn't get my hand up to the reel quick enough.

[Team9nine]

9 hours ago, DitchPanda said:

Well I was just kinda having fun and playing around with the back reel guys the way you guys are playing around with us drag guys and our stack of washers. To me old school isn't an insult...but I believe something that used to be the dominate method that has since changed and 95% of people are no longer doing it is old school. The biggest thing I don't get about it is the money involved..take for example the Stella. When you put alot of money into a spinning reel you are getting refinement in all areas...weight, cast ability and drag performance. Drag performance is a huge one so I can't see spending that kind of money for that refinement and just backreeling. Of course this is just my way of thinking and I'm definitely not saying its the right or only way.

Out if curiosity what is the no AR bearing for deep cranking thing? I'm not a deep cranker but I'm curious

 

All in good fun. If there was a way to buy a less expensive version of a reel that had a “cheap” drag setup, I’d be all over it. But it doesn't work that way. Just because I had to pay for it doesn’t mean I have to use it. The cable company makes me buy 80+ channels even though I only watch 2. Why no heavily discounted packages for those of us who could live with just a few?

 

On the deep cranking, and you can probably search out David Fritts on this one, but the AR bearing takes away all the back pressure on the reel handle which is a critical part of feeling what a bait is doing during the retrieve. Most guys probably never even realized it, but the rest of us either use the few (1?) models available without, use older reels without the AR bearing, or find a reel with a lower quality/sloppy bearing that has a little play in it to recapture some of that back presssure.

[Paul Roberts]

On 11/29/2020 at 9:30 PM, DitchPanda said:

Well I was just kinda having fun and playing around with the back reel guys the way you guys are playing around with us drag guys and our stack of washers. To me old school isn't an insult...but I believe something that used to be the dominate method that has since changed and 95% of people are no longer doing it is old school. The biggest thing I don't get about it is the money involved..take for example the Stella. When you put alot of money into a spinning reel you are getting refinement in all areas...weight, cast ability and drag performance. Drag performance is a huge one so I can't see spending that kind of money for that refinement and just backreeling. Of course this is just my way of thinking and I'm definitely not saying its the right or only way.

Out if curiosity what is the no AR bearing for deep cranking thing? I'm not a deep cranker but I'm curious

Yes, I was having fun, shoveling it back, bantering... And didn't start it, mind you.  This topic has an old history, so the banter reaction is now instantaneous. It is interesting to me the intensity of reaction it brings. I've always been in agreement that it's a preference. (Except it's not when companies start doing away with the AR altogether). This time I decided to have some fun with it.

 

As Brian mentioned, it's not an "old school" thing, and the quality of the drag has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with the downsides of having a fixed setting for line tension control. Watch some videos of people, including pros, fighting bass and having to fiddling with the "setting", or hand stripping line, during the fight, esp at boat-side. Compared to the complete control over tension back-reeling gives, and the ease with which it's done. I guess that's what gets me is that it's not some difficult, even risky, thing to do. It's so easy. I understand why most people wouldn't dare try it; Drag is just taken for granted as a must have. Seems like a no-brainer. But a fixed tension setting has some real drawbacks and hassles that, frankly, look silly to me.

 

There's more too, but, I gotta get to work here... Let's just say, I give SO little line to fighting fish, even big ones. And there are some serious advantages to this, and serious disadvantages to letting fish have their way, even if only in inches.

 

Again, I decided to shovel some trash talk back this time. And enjoyed it!  Frankly, I don't care how people handle their line tension. Really. But, back-reeling isn't some old school, technology avoiding thing. It has real advantages, giving complete control over line tension at all times, and instantaneously. And it's easy, once you know how to control the rotor with the fingers of your rod hand. That's really the only "skill" to learn. Maybe there's a learning curve there, I don't really remember. If you have trouble with tangles with spinning tackle, maybe it's not time to learn back-reeling. Then again, back-reeling cannot add line twist like allowing a spool to rotate can. Thus, I don't recommend back-reeling. I never talk about it in my videos. Seems viewers don't even notice it. There's not a lot to see there actually, bc, again, I give precious little line to fish. Giving line when it doesn't need to be given just prolongs the fight and potentially spells trouble.

 

For all to hear: No one is asking anyone to back-reel. So please don't tell me I should be using drag, or that I'm somehow ignorant or backward for not using it. Randy's title on his video was click-bait, meant to push people's buttons. Learn to ignore it, and listen to the content or not.

 

[roadwarrior]

Some of you may remember Fish Chris. Here is a thread on topic from 2007...

 

 

[Paul Roberts]

On 11/30/2020 at 1:52 PM, roadwarrior said:

Some of you may remember Fish Chris. Here is a thread on topic from 2007...

 

With all due respect to Chris, he's speculating. And he's wrong, that one is at risk of breaking off bc a fish's surge is too fast for a back-reeler. I can say this from experience, with a LOT faster fish than bass, even big ones. I've caught chinook and coho salmon, steelhead, big (10+lb) rainbow trout (inc a 9# with room to run on a 2.2lb tournament line), 10lb brown trout, 8-15lb carp, 8lb channel cats, all back-reeled. And never had a fish surprise me with a surge and break me off or even pull off, never had to even consider it.

(Now... a sound argument can be made that drag is helpful with long-running speedsters -which bass are not- and esp such saltwater species. I won't argue that, although line twist can become atrocious with long runners.)

 

There is a big misunderstanding about back-reeling. And that is that you have to keep up with a fish by reeling backwards by hand. Which, btw, most spinning reels are capable of doing for most freshwater, esp warmwater, fish. The reel handle cranks in line, and lets it out. But the rotor is where the back-reeling game is played. This is controlled by the fingers of the rod hand. It's AOK to leggo the handle! The rod hand is the one fighting the fish, with a long spring (the rod), arm motion, leaning forward, bending at the waist, and line stretch to cushion anything a fish can do. It's SO easy to do. There's a LOT of cushion at your immediate disposal. If a fish can get beyond all that potential cushion, usually at boat-side, leggo the handle and manage the rotor with the rod hand. The rotor can be feathered or simply stopped at the end of the burst. It's easy, and intuitive. Heck, if there's any surprise it's having the handle wrenched out of your hand on occasion. You'll learn to be a flexible there, and, that the handle does not need to be held onto for dear life. Maybe this shoots dread into the imagination of those who've only used drag, but the real control is happening at the rotor. Control the rotor and there is no backlash. Honestly, I've never had fish surprise me and cause a backlash. My rod/rotor hand, that casts, manipulates the retrieve, strike detection, and therefore the line tension is, intuitively, already on the job.

 

As to concerns about braid: The lack of stretch removes one piece of all that cushion and I've had no issues with it. And it's been a bunch of years now. I suppose 6lb straight braid on an XF H rod might be a bit of a challenge keeping fish on. That's giving up all the rod cushion, and we don't do that, drag or not

 

Back-reeling is easy. Again, I don't generally recommend it, or even talk about it. Many fishers, esp new or occasional fishers, have some difficulties managing line on spinning reels to begin with. I don't need to add any complications there. But line handling is something we already must learn to do. And back-reeling is really not much more of a stretch.

 

There are advantages, so it's worth a real discussion. Not a call, or challenge, to change. I think that should be what this forum is about. Just want to breath some experience -some reality- into this subject. Appreciate the counter arguments, from those with years of back-reeling experience. I can't provide one since I've never used drag on a spinning rig, can only say what I've seen others do, in person and on TV. And from my use of casting rigs, which has me dealing with a fixed drag setting and sometimes having to fiddle with the setting or hand stripping line, during a fight. Last thing I want to have to do right then.

[TnRiver46]

You are spot on as usual @Paul RobertsRoberts. You don't have to actually reel backwards, the fish does that. The angler just keeps the line tight. Unfortunately most people would just rather poke fun than try to understand or even crazier actually attempt it. Oh well, their loss. If back reel was something new they would be all over it like a brand new restaurant! When to know you are really dialed in with spinning gear: with the drag set AND back reeling

 

 

[Paul Roberts]

9 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

The angler just keeps the line tight.

Phew! That's what I was trying to say! :))

[Big Hands]

"And I'll argue this with anybody"

 

Next video (referring to the backlash he received on the backreeling video): "I'm just telling you what works for me"

 

Clearly an expert on backreeling, LOL.

 

He also stated that he is a 'teacher'. He even made a video ranting about people wanting to be entertained rather than educated recently.

 

I don't know how long he has been trying to 'educate' folks about fishing. I have recently been trying to give his videos a chance. He seems like a nice enough guy, and I assume his heart is in the right place. Unfortunately, he currently does not have the luxury of having a live audience where you can get instant feedback on what is working and what isn't. Having good information is only part of the equation. Teaching is about the transfer of knowledge and/or skills. Being a sage on a stage does not make one a great, or even a good educator.

[NOC 1]

On 11/29/2020 at 7:57 PM, Team9nine said:

 

It has nothing to do with going "old school." I'd fish the same with a $1,000 Stella as I would a $30 Sienna. It's all about control, and whether you want to give it to an expensive stack of washers and a spool plastic release/drag knob, or give it to yourself instead.

Same with the AR bearing for deep cranking.

Same with running your depthfinder in auto.

Same with thumb barring a baitcaster.

Most anglers are obviously very happy with just taking the technology route and calling it a day, and that technology has progressed to the point that allows most to take the path of least resistance and still benefit 95% of the time. Good for you guys. You paid for it, and have lots of company, but you give up a little something in the process. A few of us just prefer not to settle for the trade-off. We like nuances 

Yeah, we lesser types will just "settle" every time. Too stupid to pick up nuance I guess.

[Team9nine]

11 minutes ago, NOC 1 said:

Yeah, we lesser types will just "settle" every time. Too stupid to pick up nuance I guess.

 

Just a little fun "*** for tat." The back reelers tend to take it on the chin more times than not on these forums... 

[Paul Roberts]

1 hour ago, NOC 1 said:

Yeah, we lesser types will just "settle" every time. Too stupid to pick up nuance I guess.

No one's stupid here. I don't blame anyone for not having experience back-reeling. Who'd even think of it nowadays? And, again, I don't recommend, as described above. Do what's worked for you.

 

I just hope there's enough of us around yet that all reels don't go anti anti-reverse. I've got my horde of good spinning reels though. Someday my son will tell his grandkids, who are using on-the-fly variable drag reels (OTFVD), how great-grandad used to let his handle spin backwards when he hooked a fish. But boy could he catch em!

[mcipinkie]

Maybe we all ought to throw hand lines.  Certainly the pure types that deal in the nuances.  Take out all those rods, reels, gears, handles, bearings, brakes, drags.  Get down to true, pure fishing.  At least line on a cane pole.  I started that way.  Bet darn few of you did

 

Whether or not, someone wants to back reel doesn't really matter.  It may, or may not work, depending on the individual.  Don't really matter.

 

But, I can tell you in reasonable certainty, that the majority of the fisherman, and most of the guys that buy the groceries with a rod and reel, choose not to, and they catch a lot of fish.

 

Read my earlier post regarding Randy.  I like Randy.  Never met him, but like him anyway.  I learn from him where I can.  He's more 20th century than me, and I'm older than him. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Captain Phil]

On 11/28/2020 at 12:33 PM, Paul Roberts said:

A stack of washers are the "stone age" tools here. A stack of washers is as dum as a stack of rocks. They are simply in the way, between you -the fisherman- and your fish. You should decide how much pressure to apply and when. Drags are totally completely unnecessary; A crutch to alleviate unfounded -and untested- fears. 

 

What you'll find when you backreel is that you almost never need to give more than a half-turn, or two, to a fish. The rod, your arm, and line stretch, do the majority of the give and take. If you haven't felt your line stretch, well... maybe your stack of washers has and isn't telling you. I've never understood watching a mindless stack of washers give line to fish that... frankly, don't deserve it! Lock em down, and discover The Truth about fighting fish; The rod does the vast majority of the work; The reel simply holds line. Those fish aren't as bad ass as your stack of washers would have you believe. And if one happens to be, a few turns of the rotor takes care of it.

I've been back reeling bass for years.  Done right, it's much more effective than relying on a "stack of washers".  Bass don't normally run far enough or long enough to be a problem.  Try back reeling a 10 pound bone fish and see how that works!   Today's reel drags are much better than what we had in the sixties.  My opinion may be different if I was starting out today.

[Team9nine]

10 hours ago, mcipinkie said:

Maybe we all ought to throw hand lines.  Certainly the pure types that deal in the nuances.  Take out all those rods, reels, gears, handles, bearings, brakes, drags.  Get down to true, pure fishing.  At least line on a cane pole.  I started that way.  Bet darn few of you did

 

Whether or not, someone wants to back reel doesn't really matter.  It may, or may not work, depending on the individual.  Don't really matter.

 

But, I can tell you in reasonable certainty, that the majority of the fisherman, and most of the guys that buy the groceries with a rod and reel, choose not to, and they catch a lot of fish.

 

Read my earlier post regarding Randy.  I like Randy.  Never met him, but like him anyway.  I learn from him where I can.  He's more 20th century than me, and I'm older than him. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, I started with a cane pole, too, fishing for crappies with my Dad.

 

A lot of pros are on record as backreelers, or at least were. Martens, Gagliardi, Grigsby, Blaukat, to name a few. And yes, many other pros, like most of today’s anglers, don’t back reel and rely on their drags. That may not be a great endorsement though watching them grab their line above the reel and pull off line quickly in spurts every time they get a big fish on and panic. I’ve seen it a lot on live coverage (see link below)...but they’re ‘pros.’

 

Like you. I also don't care one way or the other whether someone chooses to backreel or not. Just don’t dismiss the technique as the anti technology madness of someone still living in the Dark Ages just because you don’t understand or agree with the benefits. 

 

We see discussions on this forum all the time about everybody wanting to have the most sensitivity in their outfits. Yet, those same people who just paid hundreds of dollars for that sensitivity then turn around and gladly kill it at the $15 AR bearing because they “trust” their modern drag ?

 

Pyzer backreel column