3mm Guides and Leader Knots?

[Michigander]

So I'm looking at the three casting guide kits I got (two Fuji and one CRB Elite) and all three of them go to 3mm ID running guides. They didn't say online what the sizes were and I didn't think to check.

 

So my problem is that I use FC leaders but I've never had a guide this small. I'll have 15-20lb FC leaders on these, will they pass through the guides or do I need to return all of these and order bigger ones?

 

Just measured my other rods that I use the same leader successfully and those are both using 4mm ID guides.

 

I looked up some guide size charts and it looks like a 3mm ID guide is a Size 5 and a 4mm ID guide is Size 6. 

[Michigander]

Update, talked to my tournament partner and we determined that these guides are not going to work. Very frustrating. I'm mad at Mudhole for not posting the sizes and I'm mad at myself for not checking. At least I learned a lesson today, just wish I could have learned this before getting ready to place the guides on the blank.

[.ghoti.]

A Fuji Alconite, size 4.5 will pass a well tied leader knot. That is no guarantee that any other size 4.5 guide will do the same. The 4.5 is the OD of the ceramic ring, or the ID of the frame. ID of the ring depends on thickness of the ring material. Stupid way to specify guide size, but WYSIWYG. 

[Lead Head]

What leader knot do you tie? How long is your leader?

 

I can pass up to 16lb sniper through #5 guides (fuji alconite) and 30lb braid with no major issues. I can get 25lb sniper through #5.5 guides (again fuji alconite) and 50lb braid. I haven't actually tried the 25 with #5 guides. 

Having said all that, I will use #6 guides when building a rod I'm planning to use leaders on... just because. 

 

While the guides you have will probably work, I would definitely suggest that you get the guides you WANT. Thats the whole point of building your own rods.

[Michigander]

1 hour ago, .ghoti. said:

A Fuji Alconite, size 4.5 will pass a well tied leader knot. That is no guarantee that any other size 4.5 guide will do the same. The 4.5 is the OD of the ceramic ring, or the ID of the frame. ID of the ring depends on thickness of the ring material. Stupid way to specify guide size, but WYSIWYG. 

It's one of those things that once you know it's fine, but I didn't until yesterday. I get it now and am much better prepared for the future. Last night was just such a let down because the build is paused until I get new guides.

 

1 hour ago, Lead Head said:

While the guides you have will probably work, I would definitely suggest that you get the guides you WANT. Thats the whole point of building your own rods.

I agree with you. The whole point of me getting into rod building was that I wasn't finding production rods that were meeting my needs, so it doesn't make sense to build a rod that won't work for me.

[Michigander]

Nearest rod building store is about 2 hours away, might have to make a trip this week to get my momentum back. Was looking forward to having a completed build over the long holiday weekend since family gatherings are canceled this year.

[Dwight Hottle]

You could just go ahead & build the rod with what you have. Then if your knot doesn't work just use straight braid or straight mono/flouro without a leader. Problem solved. 

[Michigander]

2 minutes ago, Dwight Hottle said:

You could just go ahead & build the rod with what you have. Then if your knot doesn't work just use straight braid or straight mono/flouro without a leader. Problem solved. 

That is an option but I prefer the leader life for how and where I fish. I'd rather just delay the build and end up with exactly what I want.

[spoonplugger1]

Guess I'm missing something, you have 5 and 6 mm guides, Lead Head told you he can get 16 lb. / 30 lb braid through a 5 mm no problem, and a 25 lb / 50 lb braid through a 5.5 and you have 6 mm guides. What's the problem again?

[Michigander]

53 minutes ago, spoonplugger1 said:

Guess I'm missing something, you have 5 and 6 mm guides, Lead Head told you he can get 16 lb. / 30 lb braid through a 5 mm no problem, and a 25 lb / 50 lb braid through a 5.5 and you have 6 mm guides. What's the problem again?

A #5 guide has a 3mm ID on the ring which is too small to me. I want to go up to #6 guides which have a 4mm ID ring size for my Uni to Uni knots.

 

Also fun fact, I talked to Mudhole today and they said Fuji has discontinued all the black alconite guides. So they're collector's items now, lol.

[Westcoast]

I use Fuji kt 4 or 4.5 on pretty all my builds and don’t ever even have to think about the knot going through the guides.  

[MickD]

My opinion is that there is little to gain by going smaller than 4 for running guides, and maybe, depending on your knot tying skills, a lot to lose.  4's are pretty darned small! 

 

But in direct answer to whether 3's will work, they will work with just about any reasonable combination of leaders/lines (braid, of course) if you can tie the FG knot.

 

If you have no confidence in your FG, then go bigger on guides.  All other knots are bigger than the FG and may be a problem with 3's.

 

I use Fuji alconite 4's on spin, 5.5 on cast.  The spin will pass a 15 pound braid/1 pound FC leader with an Alberto knot very well.  Not quite so well with a double uni, but it will work.

[Michigander]

I use, uni to uni and measured the knot, it was 1.8mm. That's over half the inner diameter of the ring. Too small for me. I would rather go with bigger guides and not have to worry about it. Be shipping the old guides out tomorrow morning.