New Rod Time

[Michigander]

Ok, so the Mudhole package got here a day early! However, two of the three blanks I ordered are backordered. So boo.

 

That being said, I have all the contents of my kit rod to get my first build under my belt.

 

To those with experience, how do I properly inspect the blank to make sure it is free from damage or defects? I used to be a helicopter mechanic, so detailed inspection is a normal expectation of mine.

 

I've got the  easy stuff like a single piece blank being in two or more pieces, but are there distortions, discoloration, or other oddball stuff like delamenating ( not sure a blank could even do that...), or something else?

 

Is it just a visual/tactile inspection?

[MickD]

First put the blank onto a table top and using your hand rotate it (roll it) to check for how straight it is.  Notice the arc that the tip makes as it is rotated 360 degrees.  It doesn't have to be perfect; all blanks will show some arc, but it should be small enough so that you can look down the blank in some position and not notice any lack of "straightness."  Most likely it will be OK.  I've only had one blank of many that I questioned.  Build with the guide orientation that minimizes any notice of any "un-straightness."  Cool words, right?  Don't worry about the spine-it is inconsequential.

 

Then hold it by the butt and put the tip down onto a carpeted floor and deflect the tip quite a ways, but don't exceed 90 degrees.  Do it a few times.  

 

Look for obvious cosmetic problems that you cannot live with.  Very rarely does this happen.

 

If all is well, build it.

Also look for any gouges or significant scratches.  Just surface stuff is cosmetic and it's up to you what you are willing to live with.  If it gets into the fibers, ask for a replacement.  I've never had this happen.

[Michigander]

53 minutes ago, MickD said:

First put the blank onto a table top and using your hand rotate it (roll it) to check for how straight it is.  Notice the arc that the tip makes as it is rotated 360 degrees.  It doesn't have to be perfect; all blanks will show some arc, but it should be small enough so that you can look down the blank in some position and not notice any lack of "straightness."  Most likely it will be OK.  I've only had one blank of many that I questioned.  Build with the guide orientation that minimizes any notice of any "un-straightness."  Cool words, right?  Don't worry about the spine-it is inconsequential.

 

Then hold it by the butt and put the tip down onto a carpeted floor and deflect the tip quite a ways, but don't exceed 90 degrees.  Do it a few times.  

 

Look for obvious cosmetic problems that you cannot live with.  Very rarely does this happen.

 

If all is well, build it.

Also look for any gouges or significant scratches.  Just surface stuff is cosmetic and it's up to you what you are willing to live with.  If it gets into the fibers, ask for a replacement.  I've never had this happen.

I like cool words, impromptu vocabulary is a passion of mine. ?

 

So you're saying the spine doesn't matter for rod building or it doesn't matter for the initial blank inspection?

[Michigander]

Went through and did parts inventory as well as inspected the blank, everything is looking good. The MB-784 kit I got has a really cool blank in it, I think it should serve me well on the kayak. However, the components that came with the kit are..... not what I would have picked myself. But I needed to see them and touch them to know that. It was really cool to have everything on my bench. I can tell that rod building and design is going to be a fulfilling hobby for me.

 

I just have to ignore the want to upgrade all the kit parts and just build it for experience. LOL.

 

Also, I found out that my digital scale is missing batteries so I can't weigh any of the components. I wanted to start keeping a log of how much each part weighs. Maybe we should get a community GoogleDoc spreadsheet going......

 

For handle reaming, how close do you ream out the ID of the handle (EVA or Winn) to the OD of the blank at the position it will be mounted?

 

[MickD]

11 hours ago, Michigander said:

I like cool words, impromptu vocabulary is a passion of mine. ?

 

So you're saying the spine doesn't matter for rod building or it doesn't matter for the initial blank inspection?

Spine doesn't matter for either.  Some builders still consider the spine, but most nowadays are building on the straightest axis.  It's up to you.  The rod will fish just fine either way.

9 hours ago, Michigander said:

Went through and did parts inventory as well as inspected the blank, everything is looking good. The MB-784 kit I got has a really cool blank in it, I think it should serve me well on the kayak. However, the components that came with the kit are..... not what I would have picked myself. But I needed to see them and touch them to know that. It was really cool to have everything on my bench. I can tell that rod building and design is going to be a fulfilling hobby for me.

 

I just have to ignore the want to upgrade all the kit parts and just build it for experience. LOL.

 

Also, I found out that my digital scale is missing batteries so I can't weigh any of the components. I wanted to start keeping a log of how much each part weighs. Maybe we should get a community GoogleDoc spreadsheet going......

 

For handle reaming, how close do you ream out the ID of the handle (EVA or Winn) to the OD of the blank at the position it will be mounted?

 

You want an easy slip fit.  Cork doesn't like tension, so if it's stretched by not being reamed enough it can crack later if not right away.  Also , too tight can scrub all the epoxy, or a lot of it, off, compromising the strength.  So try to get it to slip on without a lot of resistance.  You will push epoxy off the blank and onto the cork or EVA as you slide it, so have paper towels and alcohol ready to clean it off.  Check it several times after the alcohol has vaporized to be sure you get it all off.

 

I believe the core of the Winn grips is EVA.  I have built a few rods with Winn grips and have used paste epoxy.  I asked the Winn rep one time what will attack the grips and he said to watch out for Deet insect repellent.  

[.ghoti.]

I always start by placing the blank in my static test rig, and flex it to 90°. Then rotate it in the rig, and flex again. Repeat until I have flexed it in four directions. Alternately, hold in one position and flex up, flex down, flex right, flex left. At that point I am convinced there are no structural defects, and the build can proceed. Do not flex past 90°. 
 

Then look for the natural bend of the blank. I have seen a couple that were almost perfectly straight. Had one so crooked ai had to send it back. Roll the blank on the bench, with about half of it hanging off the end of the bench. Stop when the tip is curved up. Mark the upper side of the blank. This is the side the guides go on, if you are building a conventional casting rod. Mark the opposite side if building a spinning rod. You want the weight of the guides to help bend the blank back towards straight. That is what’s known as building on the straightest axis. You can use a china marker, or just wrap a piece of painter’s tape around the blank and mark it.

 

you want a relatively close fit when reaming the grips. Not so tight you have to really push hard to force it into place, but you do not want it to slide off the end of the blank. If you get it a little too big, you can build up the blank diameter with drywall tape.

[Michigander]

Ok, excellent information on blank inspection. I did the recommended steps and it looks like I'm going to be fine to start building. The blank is pretty straight overall, though I see why laser guide alignment tools are probably less than what they are cracked up to be.

 

So for reaming, it seems like a ream a bit, check it, ream it a bit more, check it, repeat situation. When I get it right, I will take measurements and see what the diameter difference is.

[Michigander]

Installed the grips, seat, and handle last night, so it's ready for guide work to begin.

Measurements didn't really work out for the EVA. Seems to be a feel thing as they are flexible.

 

One thing I learned is that the economy rubber winding checks are not something I will use again. They're just too economy and are a little hard to work with due to that cheapness. They also don't look amazing when inspected up close due to how they are manufactured.

 

I think I will pick up some denatured alcohol to try as well. The Isopropyl took more work than I expected to remove the last traces of excess Pro Paste.

 

Well, time to fire up the saw and build some rod wrappers!

[Michigander]

I've been taking my sweet time on the first rod. Just did the static deflection test and finalized my guide spacing last night. So tonight I begin the wrapping process.

 

For the rubber winding checks, do you cover those in the epoxy that you seal the guide wraps with? Or leave them unfinished?

[MickD]

I totally encapsulate them in wrap epoxy.  Use it liberally over the check and you'll get a nicely shaped filet and you'll not have to worry about any failure of the flexible check.  Seems like everything flexible will crack sooner or later if exposed.  I've never had this happen by totally encapsulating them.  Looks very classy.

[Michigander]

Thanks, @MickD. It's exciting to be at the wrap stage!

[MickD]

Here is an example of encapsulating the flexible checks.  

[Michigander]

53 minutes ago, MickD said:

Here is an example of encapsulating the flexible checks.  

Oh, that does look nice! So I guess rubber winding checks end up fine in the end. Good to know, I think they look cheap at the stage I'm on right now. What did you use for a butt end there?

[MickD]

The knob is exotic burl cork, not sure where I got it, but I think Mudhole.  It is the green color.  The color is subtle, but quite nice.  Since cork itself doesn't take dyes well the color is in the adhesive.  Not all burl cork is the same.  what's neat about this burl is that the pieces are not all the same size.  Some burls look like particle board, vey uniform, with no character.  The finish is wrap epoxy.  Others have used varnish and some polyurethanes with varying degrees of build and gloss.  The wrap epoxy is  probably the highest build and gloss.  Some polys look really good, more of a semi gloss finish with less build, but from what I can tell they are not UV protected, so may break down.  I don't really know, have no experience with them.  Cork 4 US is a good source of quality burl.  

 

I wanted you to see this so you could see that the rubber checks can look very classy, but you have to encapsulate them to get the good look.  You don't have to go any farther with the epoxy than just over the check.  It will look great, but the cork will remain uncoated.  If I don't coat the cork with epoxy I use U40 cork sealer on it.  Then it will stay nice longer and clean up easier.  And I don't think it even gets as dirty as untreated cork.  Seems to shed it to some degree.

[Michigander]

@MickD Yes, thanks for sharing, that image changes my whole opinion of the rubber checks! That cork turned out beautiful too, is that a personal rod? I have peasant EVA on my kit rod, but that's fine for the kayak.

 

Still on the fence about what to put on my X-rays. Carbon fiber is cool, but Winn grips are way cheaper, lol.

[MickD]

that rod was a rod I made for a local educational foundation fund raiser.  MSU sells well here, so that's why the theme.  I do one every year.  Rodgeeks blank, nice blank.  I have an identical one I made for me, and it's a great tube rod.  C4 med power, fast action.  A little more powerful than the St Croix SCV, 7 foot, med power, fast action.

 

IMHO, carbon fiber is cool, but isn't a compelling advantage over cork or Winn.  Winn is actually lighter than most cork, and light = sensitivity.  Even though it feels soft, Winn does fine for sensitivity.  Just keep DEET away from your Winn grips.  As you should do with anything other than steel.  DEET attacks just about everything.

 

One thing that a lot of builders seem to miss is that with spin, the grips/handles mean almost nothing.  You grip by the seat, with the stem between your fingers, and the stuff in front of and behind the seat is just along for the ride.  Or for style.  To make the design look symmetric.  So if you have a comfortable butt knob, and a smooth surface in front of the seat, like a nice little ramp to the blank, everything's cool.  And as effective as it's going to get.

[spoonplugger1]

Back in my early days to bend a blank to 90 degrees like mentioned above I just laid it perpendicular in a dresser drawer and closed the drawer on it till it stopped than bent away. Fancy stuff and ways come much later in your addiction, have fun and keep your money till you do it so often that efficiencies start mattering.

[Michigander]

11 minutes ago, MickD said:

that rod was a rod I made for a local educational foundation fund raiser.  MSU sells well here, so that's why the theme.  I do one every year.  Rodgeeks blank, nice blank.  I have an identical one I made for me, and it's a great tube rod.  C4 med power, fast action.  A little more powerful than the St Croix SCV, 7 foot, med power, fast action.

 

IMHO, carbon fiber is cool, but isn't a compelling advantage over cork or Winn.  Winn is actually lighter than most cork, and light = sensitivity.  Even though it feels soft, Winn does fine for sensitivity.  Just keep DEET away from your Winn grips.  As you should do with anything other than steel.  DEET attacks just about everything.

 

One thing that a lot of builders seem to miss is that with spin, the grips/handles mean almost nothing.  You grip by the seat, with the stem between your fingers, and the stuff in front of and behind the seat is just along for the ride.  Or for style.  To make the design look symmetric.  So if you have a comfortable butt knob, and a smooth surface in front of the seat, like a nice little ramp to the blank, everything's cool.  And as effective as it's going to get.

Yeah, I'm in Lansing so MSU is quite popular here too, lol. Thankfully I have eliminated DEET out of my life except for some deep woods adventures. I have totally different stuff for on the boat.

 

My X-rays are both going to be casting rods. I had considered just cutting down a Winn grip to be exactly what my hand needs to hold the reel to shave max weight off. Doing that would probably get me at or under carbon fiber. I'm building five rods this winter but I doubt I'll build more than one a year after this. I say that but I also have gear ADD and could replace some of my mediocre rods.....

17 minutes ago, spoonplugger1 said:

Back in my early days to bend a blank to 90 degrees like mentioned above I just laid it perpendicular in a dresser drawer and closed the drawer on it till it stopped than bent away. Fancy stuff and ways come much later in your addiction, have fun and keep your money till you do it so often that efficiencies start mattering.

LoL. If it works it works, I'm not judging. The start up cost for all the crap you need to do this kept me away before. Other than a Black Friday sale dryer and reamer set, I built everything I needed to keep costs down. But if I get serious about the craft I will probably laugh at my current setup.

[Michigander]

Rod dryer got here today, time to start the epoxy!