Too many finesse techniques?

[Luke Barnes]

I buy more rods and reels for three reasons. One: specific action, length, power. Two: I am a victim of the bait monkey Three: I hate retying on the water so I bring way too many some times. 

 

That being said I plan on trying some finesse techniques that I've yet to try tomorrow at a pressured pond. Dont yell at me when I say this would be only the second time I throw a Neko or a Wacky. I always have a trusty Ned ready. I have a shakey head tied on another. Do i really stand a better chance at catching a fish if I fish a Ned, Shakey, Neko, and Wacky in the same spots or am I just over doing it? Yes if the shakey isnt working I could retie a Wacky hook etc... But I would rather just bring another setup. Is there enough difference to warrant 4 finesse setups with me from the bank? 

[Bluebasser86]

I wouldn't bring that many but a shakyhead isn't very effective in ponds here because of bottom debris and a Neko is a pretty good substitute for it that stays out of the junk better. Swapping the worms out would be an easy way to switch from a weighted Neko to a weightless wacky rig while only using 1 rod also.

[Luke Barnes]

1 hour ago, Bluebasser86 said:

I wouldn't bring that many but a shakyhead isn't very effective in ponds here because of bottom debris and a Neko is a pretty good substitute for it that stays out of the junk better. Swapping the worms out would be an easy way to switch from a weighted Neko to a weightless wacky rig while only using 1 rod also.

Using the VMC Finesse Rugby Heads and i like that they have an EWG hook so they stay decently clean where I fish. I would have thought with the exposed Neko hook it would pick up more debris. Also that's a good idea about switching if I wanted to weightless wacky. I just bought some tungsten 1/8 oz wacky heads so if I used those I would have to retie to switch to Neko.

[plawren53202]

I fish a highly pressured pond (my subdivision HOA pond) a LOT, like 3-4 times/week. More often than not, I have to rely on a "finesse bait" to get bites there. There is some logic for trying different finesse presentations. The two big varying factors for me are (1) where in the water column I need to present the bait, and (2) how big of a bait they want.

 

For instance, sometimes they are planted firmly on the bottom and I need to throw a Ned rig or a neko worm. Sometimes I find that they want a slightly suspended presentation and I'll switch to a drop shot. (If you're maybe going to be using a drop shot, to me that is a good reason to have a separate rod for that, because I hate having to take time to tie a drop shot rig on the water and would much rather have one ready to go). There is hardly no cover in this pond, but there are a few sparse weeds at one end so sometimes I'll need to throw a weightless fluke or some other weightless T-rigged bait.  Size is the other distinguishing factor. If they want it on the bottom and I need a small presentation, then Ned rig, if they want something a little bigger, then 4 or 5 inch Yum Dinger Neko rigged.

 

 

I don't usually need to try every finesse tactic in my bag, if they're just not biting a finesse presentation that day, I can usually figure it out after trying a few. On the other hand, if you're in a spot like this that really requires a finesse presentation, then there is some logic to trying a few different ones, especially varying bait size and presentation in the water column. Number of rods is purely personal preference and how much tolerance you have for retying on the water. My usual fishing time at this pond is 1-2 hour chunks, and I have several spinning rods at my disposal, so I'd much rather take several so I spend as much time fishing and as little time retying as I can.

 

One other thing, I've recently discovered the power of a jerkbait in a "finesse" situation like this. That's one that definitely would call for a different rod than I'm throwing the Ned rig/Neko rig/dropshot on.

[galyonj]

I think too many is subjective, and that the decision really comes down to bottom composition and available cover. There are places I fish here that a ned rig or a shakyhead will either a) never get seen because of all the muck and trash in the water, or b) will just get snagged and break off in the rocks.

 

And that's most of the places I fish.

 

Honestly, if I'm slinging a finesse soft plastic, 99% of the time it's either a wacky rig (and most of the time that's weighted), or a neko rig.

[CountryboyinDC]

I honestly think about 2 rods cover most of the techniques you mentioned.  A spinning M and ML power fast or x-fast action should be all you need.  I see manufacturers separately labeling ML rods shakey head and drop shot, and I don't know what the difference would be if you need the same power rod for both.  I do have quite a few more than 2, but and I carry as many as 3 when I'm fishing shallow rivers.  I can use the same rod for Neko and shakey-head, etc.  With the techniques you're already using, chances are you have the rigs that you need for Neko and wacky.

[LCG]

I use a M-XF Spinning rod for Ned, wacky, and neko rigs. Also use it for drop shot and inline spinners. As previously mentioned, a wacky and neko rig are very similar, just use a weedless hook and add a weight. I usually texas rig a Ned rig on a size 2 EWG as I hate getting hung up all the time. A weightless trick worm is always a good bet as well. 

 

I generally prefer baitcasting setups for texas rigged senkos, brush hogs, and creature baits. I usually bring two combos depending on conditions and what I feel will work on a given day. 

[soflabasser]

It is better to master a handful of techniques than fish over a dozen and not know them well.

[Fishes in trees]

If you're bank fishing you can get too many rods very easily.   You might want to consider going combo, i.e. using 1 rod for multiple approaches, changing only the terminal tackle.

 

Me - I don't fish ponds.   I fish out of a boat.   I'm a junk fisherman by nature.  For me the time savings justifies bring the extra rigs along.   Yesterday I brought along the Neko rig and also had a rig where I took a bubba up approach ( i.e. 7' MH pitching rod, 15 lb Abrazx fluorocarbon line, heavier Neko weights and tx rigged a 6" stick bait )  By contrast my regular Neko rig has a Big TRD or Strike King Elaztech stick worm/ 1/16 oz pin weight and a smaller hook.

 

Sad to report that the fish didn't really want any soft plastic yesterday - just 1 soft plastic fish ( 10' or so down on the jika rig )

3 solid keepers and 14 slot fish happened on reaction baits - lipless cranks and square bills. 

[Team9nine]

One rod and reel covers it all for me. Much easier to carry a few extra lures instead of a few extra rod/reel combos from the bank. I use a ML Shimano Clarus to throw traditional Ned, weedless Ned (VMC Rugby), jighead wacky, weightless wacky, jigworm, small swimbaits, small jerkbaits, micro jig-pig among others. Could easily do dropshot, too, though I don’t usually from the bank.

[Jonas Staggs]

On 11/5/2020 at 6:34 AM, plawren53202 said:

I fish a highly pressured pond (my subdivision HOA pond) a LOT, like 3-4 times/week. More often than not, I have to rely on a "finesse bait" to get bites there. There is some logic for trying different finesse presentations. The two big varying factors for me are (1) where in the water column I need to present the bait, and (2) how big of a bait they want.

 

For instance, sometimes they are planted firmly on the bottom and I need to throw a Ned rig or a neko worm. Sometimes I find that they want a slightly suspended presentation and I'll switch to a drop shot. (If you're maybe going to be using a drop shot, to me that is a good reason to have a separate rod for that, because I hate having to take time to tie a drop shot rig on the water and would much rather have one ready to go). There is hardly no cover in this pond, but there are a few sparse weeds at one end so sometimes I'll need to throw a weightless fluke or some other weightless T-rigged bait.  Size is the other distinguishing factor. If they want it on the bottom and I need a small presentation, then Ned rig, if they want something a little bigger, then 4 or 5 inch Yum Dinger Neko rigged.

 

 

I don't usually need to try every finesse tactic in my bag, if they're just not biting a finesse presentation that day, I can usually figure it out after trying a few. On the other hand, if you're in a spot like this that really requires a finesse presentation, then there is some logic to trying a few different ones, especially varying bait size and presentation in the water column. Number of rods is purely personal preference and how much tolerance you have for retying on the water. My usual fishing time at this pond is 1-2 hour chunks, and I have several spinning rods at my disposal, so I'd much rather take several so I spend as much time fishing and as little time retying as I can.

 

One other thing, I've recently discovered the power of a jerkbait in a "finesse" situation like this. That's one that definitely would call for a different rod than I'm throwing the Ned rig/Neko rig/dropshot on.

 

I fish a hoa lake similar to you. Can you elaborate on the jerkbait? 

[Cgolf]

I would use one rod, maybe two and instead of tying direct go with a snap. Really quick and easy to switch between shakey, Ned, Neko, and weightless wacky rig. I personally have found benefits to how baits drop using snaps, especially lighter weight rigs, similar reasons to why many prefer snaps on cranks. Snaps allow the bait to pivot and fall more vertically vs being tied where they also need to drag the line done which means they may drift off target. In open water not a huge deal, but when casting to pressured fish holding on a spot may help you get the bait right on them in their feeding window.  

[OkobojiEagle]

50 minutes ago, cgolf said:

Snaps allow the bait to pivot and fall more vertically vs being tied where they also need to drag the line done which means they may drift off target.

Please post which snaps magically move the line to directly overhead...

 

oe

[Finessegenics]

2 hours ago, cgolf said:

go with a snap

 

Joking aside, two is definitely enough. A M/F and ML/F. Sure, retying is annoying but how different really is a shakyhead and neko rig? In my opinion, if they're not biting one they're unlikely to bite the other. 

[Cgolf]

4 hours ago, Finessegenics said:

 

Joking aside, two is definitely enough. A M/F and ML/F. Sure, retying is annoying but how different really is a shakyhead and neko rig? In my opinion, if they're not biting one they're unlikely to bite the other. 

Actually if you reread what I wrote, it’s not that retying is annoying, it that you get a different fall with a snap and light lures. I fish a lot of vertical cover and on tough bite days this can make the difference of going home empty handed or getting bit. Also frontal bass run larger for some reason so I want to get bit. 

[Finessegenics]

2 hours ago, cgolf said:

Actually if you reread what I wrote, it’s not that retying is annoying, it that you get a different fall with a snap and light lures. I fish a lot of vertical cover and on tough bite days this can make the difference of going home empty handed or getting bit. Also frontal bass run larger for some reason so I want to get bit. 

I was speaking to the OP in that second part. Sorry for the mixup. He carries 4 rods because he finds retying annoying. 
 

as for snaps, I’ve used them with squarebills and such but I just don’t like the extra hardware when it comes to “finesse” presentations or bottom contact baits. I have no real reason and your reasoning comes from real experience so I don’t doubt what you say. I’ve never heard someone use a snap for that reason before though. 

[GetFishorDieTryin]

8 hours ago, Finessegenics said:

LMAO!!! Precisely my reaction 

[plawren53202]

20 hours ago, Jonas Staggs said:

 

I fish a hoa lake similar to you. Can you elaborate on the jerkbait? 

Sure...disclaimer that I'm a new convert to jerkbaits but they have been really productive for me this fall. To me a jerkbait fishes nearly as fast (i.e., I can cover water) as a squarebill, but the pauses in the retrieve (anywhere from 1 to 5 seconds or more) makes it a more "finess-y" presentation because it can provoke more sluggish fish into striking. 

 

I have tried several jerkbaits so far, the KVD, Lucky Craft Pointer, 6th Sense Provoke, and the Megabass 110 Jr. For pond fishing like my HOA pond, the smaller Lucky Craft Pointer 78 and the Megabass Jr are perfect size. I know the Megabass is pricey, and I resisted for a while, but it really does fish amazingly well. For colors in a pond, I use a white (like a sexy shad) for cloudy days, a ghost/clear pattern and a chrome pattern for sunny days, and also a bluegill pattern. 

 

I can throw a 110 Jr or Pointer 78 on a MH baitcasting setup, so this would be an additional rod besides the ones I would take for Ned rig/neko rig/shaky head/etc.

[GetFishorDieTryin]

On 11/4/2020 at 11:00 PM, Luke Barnes said:

I buy more rods and reels for three reasons. One: specific action, length, power. Two: I am a victim of the bait monkey Three: I hate retying on the water so I bring way too many some times. 

 

That being said I plan on trying some finesse techniques that I've yet to try tomorrow at a pressured pond. Dont yell at me when I say this would be only the second time I throw a Neko or a Wacky. I always have a trusty Ned ready. I have a shakey head tied on another. Do i really stand a better chance at catching a fish if I fish a Ned, Shakey, Neko, and Wacky in the same spots or am I just over doing it? Yes if the shakey isnt working I could retie a Wacky hook etc... But I would rather just bring another setup. Is there enough difference to warrant 4 finesse setups with me from the bank? 

I like a SH rod to have a little more power an just a little more tip then a DS rod.  Honestly you can get a 6'10 ML XF and use it for DS, ned, neko, SH, wacky, spybaits, finesse swimbaits, small JB, finesse jigs and just about anything else with the word finesse in front of it and do fine

[Cgolf]

19 minutes ago, Rusty_Shackleford said:

LMAO!!! Precisely my reaction 

Why are you guys afraid of a small piece of metal like a snap. I haven’t had a duolock snap fail on me. Only snap I have seen fail is a Norman speed clip. I guess if you throw heavy stuff all the time it doesn’t matter. 

[GetFishorDieTryin]

52 minutes ago, plawren53202 said:

I can throw a 110 Jr or Pointer 78 on a MH baitcasting setup,

Dont waste your time throwing 3/8oz JB on casting gear.  Its far more efficient to use ML spinning (6'10 ML XF works well) gear and the action is much better with a crisp lighter rod.  110 jrs are great JBs but they dive fairly deep on 10lb fluro or 12 mono.  JBs happen to be snag prone as well so 20$ a pop really stings.  Pointers are great but take a look at Duos smaller JBs.  Ive smashed them with Duos when 110 jrs struggle.  I like the 78s but other then color selection the rozy 77 beats it every other category IMO.

[GetFishorDieTryin]

54 minutes ago, cgolf said:

Why are you guys afraid of a small piece of metal like a snap. I haven’t had a duolock snap fail on me. Only snap I have seen fail is a Norman speed clip. I guess if you throw heavy stuff all the time it doesn’t matter. 

I don't think anyone is afraid of them.  Fish may be afraid of them but I've just found them to be hassle for freshwater bass.  I don't like duo locks on chatterbaits all they do is load up with grass.  In fact I think the opposite, lighter baits are more negatively effected by swivels then heavy baits .   I understand what your saying about pivot points, but I think a surgeons loop or Rapala knot and a 90 degree line tie is the best way to get a bait horizontal that I have found.  Not ripping on you on all just my opinion.

[Luke Barnes]

I use a ML/F for ned and that's all that rod ever sees. Then i have a M/F that I currently have a shakey head on. But then to move to wacky is a retie. I bought some tungsten weighted wacky hooks so to move to Neko would be a retie. That's why I'm asking and thinking if I can't catch them on two techniques I'm just not going to catch them on a third or fourth. But if I was convinced switching techniques would get a bite I would bring another setup with it tied on. But that brings me back to am I trying too many finesse techniques in one spot and instead should just move?

[plawren53202]

18 hours ago, Luke Barnes said:

I use a ML/F for ned and that's all that rod ever sees. Then i have a M/F that I currently have a shakey head on. But then to move to wacky is a retie. I bought some tungsten weighted wacky hooks so to move to Neko would be a retie. That's why I'm asking and thinking if I can't catch them on two techniques I'm just not going to catch them on a third or fourth. But if I was convinced switching techniques would get a bite I would bring another setup with it tied on. But that brings me back to am I trying too many finesse techniques in one spot and instead should just move?

To me (and this is all just my personal tendencies, everyone is different), ned rig and shaky head are kind of in the same category in that both are finesse baits that fish the bottom. I probably wouldn't try both in the same spot . If it's a shaky head with, e.g., a 4" Yum Dinger, that to me is nearly the same thing as a Ned rig. A shaky head with a 7" worm is a little different...but if I'm fishing a pond with dinks I probably wouldn't use the 7" worm. Sometimes I might throw a Ned rig after having tried a shaky head, just because the Ned is the "last resort" finesse bait for me, that sometimes gets bit when absolutely nothing else will. But I probably wouldn't throw a Ned rig and then a shaky head after.

 

Unweighted wacky worm or unweighted fluke would be different in that they are going to sink much more slowly and so they cover a different part of the water column. A weighted Neko worm, again, to me is a pretty similar presentation to a ned rig or shaky head, so probably wouldn't try all 3 in the same spot.

 

Where I would be more likely to try similar finesse presentations in the same spot is switching up colors and bait type. For instance in my HOA pond blue craw TRD works well a lot, but sometimes if it's not getting bit then I might switch to, for example, a black and blue Ned craw or a green pumpkin Sukoshi bug. The good thing about switching colors or bait style in those cases is I don't have to rerig and can use the same head. But, I'm not going to sit and try different colors or bait types endlessly. I'd try 2 or so that are very different, if no bites still, then move on to a completely different presentation (a reaction bite or a jerkbait, e.g.), or more likely, move to a different spot.

[Bankc]

I'd save your money and save yourself from having to carry the extra gear.  If you get to the point where all you do is finesse fish (which I don't know why you would in Oklahoma), then it might be worth getting four separate setups.  If you fished from a boat where transporting and storing the rods while not in use isn't a hassle, then it might be worth it.  But bank fishing with four setups that so closely relate to one another isn't what I'd want to do.  

 

Just go out with one or two finesse fishing rods for a while.  Figure out how effective this technique even is for you, before you decide to invest into it.  In most ponds and small lakes in Oklahoma that I've fished, about the only finesse techniques that are worth my time are wacky rigs and weightless T-rigged plastics.  Stuff that falls slowly, but you can cast often to cover lots of water.  The water isn't clear enough to draw them to your lure, so you have to bring the lure to them.  Stuff that just sits on the bottom and wiggles doesn't seem to do me much good.