USCG approved rub rail or strip bow navigation lights

[Dirtyeggroll]

Anyone ever come up with any USCG approved navigation lights for the rub rail or permanent light strips for the bow?

[@reelChris]

Here's a good summary of the issues involved with aftermarket navigation lights

 

Lone star outdoor news on unapproved lights

 

 

[A-Jay]

42 minutes ago, @reelChris said:

Here's a good summary of the issues involved with aftermarket navigation lights

 

Lone star outdoor news on unapproved lights

 

 

Nicely Done ~ 

 

Specifically, the International Regulations for the Prevention of Collision at Sea, abbreviated "COLREGS"

is very specific about the lights required, their shapes and sizes, and the distance they must be visible.

Each State's regulations mirror this. 

For the smaller boats, the following definitions apply.

Masthead Light (when required)- a white light placed centerline on the boat showing an arc of 225 degrees with 112.5 degrees either side of the front of the vessel.

Sidelights - A red light on the port side and a green light on the starboard. They must show an arc of 112.5 degrees from centerline of the bow.

Stern light - A white light on the stern of the boat showing an unbroken arc of 135 degrees from centerline of the vessel.

All-round light - (often called an anchor light) A light showing in an unbroken arc of 360 degrees.

The good news is you need not measure these angles. Any properly installed USCG or COLREGS approved light which will cover the correct arcs. If you have to replace the original light from your boat, make sure it's with an approved replacement.

Stay Safe

A-Jay

[GaryH]

On 10/25/2020 at 9:57 AM, A-Jay said:

Nicely Done ~ 

 

Specifically, the International Regulations for the Prevention of Collision at Sea, abbreviated "COLREGS"

is very specific about the lights required, their shapes and sizes, and the distance they must be visible.

Each State's regulations mirror this. 

For the smaller boats, the following definitions apply.

Masthead Light (when required)- a white light placed centerline on the boat showing an arc of 225 degrees with 112.5 degrees either side of the front of the vessel.

Sidelights - A red light on the port side and a green light on the starboard. They must show an arc of 112.5 degrees from centerline of the bow.

Stern light - A white light on the stern of the boat showing an unbroken arc of 135 degrees from centerline of the vessel.

All-round light - (often called an anchor light) A light showing in an unbroken arc of 360 degrees.

The good news is you need not measure these angles. Any properly installed USCG or COLREGS approved light which will cover the correct arcs. If you have to replace the original light from your boat, make sure it's with an approved replacement.

Stay Safe

A-Jay

Like you know something about CG regs.. LOL 

[MN Fisher]

12 minutes ago, GaryH said:

Like you know something about CG regs.. LOL 

Well, if @A-Jay does mess something up - Lynn will put him straight.

[J Francho]

I wish all the misguided folks adding nav lights to their unpowered kayaks would at least read the regs.  I'm in a boat, and I only see nav lights, I'm might assume you are a much larger vessel.  I think repurposing the rub rail for navigation markers is about neato as lighting up the road underneath you car - looks nice in pictures.  Also, show me red when you're coming at me at night so I know you see me.

[A-Jay]

22 minutes ago, MN Fisher said:

Well, if @A-Jay does mess something up - Lynn will put him straight.

You have NO Idea !

A-Jay

[MN Fisher]

Just now, A-Jay said:

You have NO Idea !

A-Jay

Dude, I've been married for 30 years...of COURSE I know

[Rocketvapor]

Seeing NAV lights doesn't really give you an indication of vessel size.

Direction yes, closure if you wait, size if you have to look UP to see GREEN. ?

See Red at a mile and it might be a TM powered Kayak or a gas powered Bass Raider

 

If under way, powered, at night or inclement weather you need the lights.  

Regs or not, you NEED the lights.  

 

I've seen many small powered boats with (probably approved) lights improperly installed or installed around other deck accessories or TM mounts that block a large part of the required angle or light installations with Red/Green overlap dead ahead. 

Whether these boats can travel 50-60mph or 2-5mph, angles and distance matter.  

 

I'll ask a question of the experts here.

With respect to an unpowered vessel propelled by oars, paddles, or peddles;

Which is correct:

May or May not,

Should or Should not,

Shall or Shall not,

have Red/Green side lights and a White stern light?

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Rocketvapor
Typos

[Dirtyeggroll]

Safety 100% first.

 

The only reason I am interested in the bow lights is that my boat has the old style bow navigation light that is on a small removable post. 
 

It’s rather inconvenient to remove and replace it so I am looking for a more permanent solution so I don’t lose or forget it. It’s actually works quite well because being on the post it comes above the excess of electronic accessories I have on the bow of my boat, overcoming any potential visual obstruction.

[Rocketvapor]

I doubt you will find an 'Approved' strip light.  

Performance would be very installation specific.

The intensity from zero degrees ahead to 112.5 degrees to the port and starboard can change due to the curvature of the bow.  How straight or curved the section of the rub rail you mount the strip light matters.  There seems to be a small angular and intensity allowance over the first or last 5 degrees or so.  

 

The first and last  LED in the string light would likely need a black stop to control angles.  

The curve would need to follow a smooth semicircle to project an even light in the horizontal.  

 

[Dirtyeggroll]

56 minutes ago, Rocketvapor said:

I doubt you will find an 'Approved' strip light.  

Performance would be very installation specific.

The intensity from zero degrees ahead to 112.5 degrees to the port and starboard can change due to the curvature of the bow.  How straight or curved the section of the rub rail you mount the strip light matters.  There seems to be a small angular and intensity allowance over the first or last 5 degrees or so.  

 

The first and last  LED in the string light would likely need a black stop to control angles.  

The curve would need to follow a smooth semicircle to project an even light in the horizontal.  

 

It wouldn’t have to be a strip per se. could be a single light. Just something permanent on the edge (or could even be on the front) of the bow. Somewhere unobstructed.

[Rocketvapor]

Maybe someone here could offer a suggestion based on a picture of your bow.  

I thought about the tape lights and mounted a set on my Bass Raider 10E.  

When I get the Trolling motor mount for the deck (where Tortuga is now) it would block the Red/Green overlap.  Good plan, right?

 

But, I'm going to get 'approved' LED lights to mount horizontal, on the deck, on each side.  

Not all that cheap, but it will avoid questions.  This little plastic boat keeps costing more and more

I like LEDs over incandescent.  Do a Google for USCG approved LED Nav lights.  

So far I've found these that would be easy for me to mount to the little deck;

https://store.marinebeam.com/led-navigation-side-lights-pair-12v-24v-horizontal-mount/

Still shopping.  

 

 

[J Francho]

Here's what the USCG says about vanity lighting: https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/DCO Documents/5p/CG-5PC/INV/Alerts/1015.pdf

 

This guide can not only tell you relative size, but also what that vessel might be doing, based on the lighting scheme: https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pdf/navrules/cg_nrhb_20151231.pdf

 

Maybe I'm being too sensitive about this, but where I boat at night, I could encounter a 24' cruiser, a boat anchored with divers in the water, a 30' sailboat, a tanker longer than a football field, or a large barge being pushed by a tug.  All of them have different lights.  Obviously, fishing some small lake or pond might be completely different.

8 hours ago, Rocketvapor said:

Maybe someone here could offer a suggestion based on a picture of your bow.  

The easiest would be self contained battery powered nav lights.  They aren't too expensive, and most boating places like West Marine have them.  Is that a turtle on the bow of your boat?

[Dirtyeggroll]

Based on all of the “read the USCG guidelines” comments, it sounds like there isn’t a popularized and approved solution to this. Sounds like hardwiring the current nav light on the post and securing it permanently is the best solution.

[Rocketvapor]

Since a lot of boaters don't SEE Kayaks or other SMALL boats during the day time thinking these guys would see one in time to avoid it at night is probably expecting too much.  

At least the fast ones usually make a lot of noise and you can hear them coming.  

Where I'm at with many rivers dumping into Lake Pontchartrain you will find everything from a Party Barge to Jon Boats with Mud motors running the marsh line in 2 feet of water at speed.  

Probably one of the best safety features I use is I don't go out on the weekends or holidays.  

 

@J Francho Yes, that is a turtle on the bow of La Tortuga

It's slow and small.  Wakes get interesting

 

@Dirtyeggroll, shop around, I'm sure you can find a solution that fits your boat.  

There is even a thread where members show their ride, maybe one of those is like yours and has a set of lights you might like. 

[Dirtyeggroll]

3 minutes ago, Rocketvapor said:

 

 

@Dirtyeggroll, shop around, I'm sure you can find a solution that fits your boat.  

There is even a thread where members show their ride, maybe one of those is like yours and has a set of lights you might like. 

I have seen lots of things I like. None of them that I know of are USCG-approved. 
 

Thanks for your help.

[J Francho]

16 minutes ago, Rocketvapor said:

Since a lot of boaters don't SEE Kayaks or other SMALL boats during the day time thinking these guys would see one in time to avoid it at night is probably expecting too much.

If a vessel isn't using some sort of mechanical propulsion, it should not have nav lights.  A single anchor light is sufficient.

 

 

[Rocketvapor]

I can see your point.

But,

more and more small boats are putting around where they don't belong, at night, with TMs or small outboards.  I thought adding red/green strips lights was a good idea if mounted properly, 

But,  

have changed my mind. 

Going with "Approved" lights on my gas powered small boat, even if it makes me look like a 20 foot speed boat.  

 Being slow it's MY responsibility to get out of the way.

 

One day soon I'll probably be ready for a night run

[TnRiver46]

18 hours ago, Rocketvapor said:

Seeing NAV lights doesn't really give you an indication of vessel size.

Direction yes, closure if you wait, size if you have to look UP to see GREEN. ?

See Red at a mile and it might be a TM powered Kayak or a gas powered Bass Raider

 

If under way, powered, at night or inclement weather you need the lights.  

Regs or not, you NEED the lights.  

 

I've seen many small powered boats with (probably approved) lights improperly installed or installed around other deck accessories or TM mounts that block a large part of the required angle or light installations with Red/Green overlap dead ahead. 

Whether these boats can travel 50-60mph or 2-5mph, angles and distance matter.  

 

I'll ask a question of the experts here.

With respect to an unpowered vessel propelled by oars, paddles, or peddles;

Which is correct:

May or May not,

Should or Should not,

Shall or Shall not,

have Red/Green side lights and a White stern light?

 

No motor all you need is a signaling light 

[J Francho]

1 hour ago, Rocketvapor said:

I can see your point.

But,

more and more small boats are putting around where they don't belong, at night, with TMs or small outboards.

These are mechanically propelled, and the rules for lights are linked above.

 

Personal opinion warning: I've been out at night, in a kayak, on a lake where motorboats can operate.  My advice here?  Don't.  Just don't.  If you think that any boater operating a vessel at night has the slightest clue, let alone any vestige of sobriety or ability, then you are most likely delusional.  Seriously.  Find a pond, or some other limited/restricted HP lake to fish at night, or get a boat.

[TnRiver46]

11 minutes ago, J Francho said:

These are mechanically propelled, and the rules for lights are linked above.

 

Personal opinion warning: I've been out at night, in a kayak, on a lake where motorboats can operate.  My advice here?  Don't.  Just don't.  If you think that any boater operating a vessel at night has the slightest clue, let alone any vestige of sobriety or ability, then you are most likely delusional.  Seriously.  Find a pond, or some other limited/restricted HP lake to fish at night, or get a boat.

I’ll fish the big river in a canoe at night but I stay literally next to the bank where a boat would have to hit several lay downs before it hits me. I’m like you though, wouldn’t really recommend it to anyone unless they are a veteran waterdog 

[J Francho]

Every year or three, someone runs into these piers, in 2008 with deadly results.  They are a half mile long, and really well lit at night.  I can see it from almost ten miles away, on shore.  You think those drivers would notice your slick LED lights on your plastic boat?

 

https://www.mpnnow.com/x518450586/Driver-charged-with-boating-under-the-influence-in-fatal-Summerville-crash

 

The driver got 12 years in prison, but three are dead forever. People have hit the pier three times since, in my recollection.

 

 

[Rocketvapor]

A boat like this one?

https://boats-from-usa.com/baja/baja-23-outlaw-30968

 

I'm gonna need bigger lights