Opinions on St. Croix Legend Tourn.

[NavyVet]

What is your overall opinion of the St. Croix Legend Tourn. Bass seris of casting rods in general? Not nec. looking for a technique specific. Unable to actually see or handle one in my area.

[r83srock]

They are well made. Crisp actions and more powerful than a comparable mojo series. The finish and look is awesome. I have only ever used/owned the casting models. I like the rods but they are not my favorite. The last two versions I do not like the reel seat that much. Wish they would just stick to Fuji ecs. The rods I had/have are a bit more tip heavy. I can feel everything I need to with these rods, but I also can with bass x/mojo. I suggest handling one with a reel on it before making a purchase. I actually like the feel of bass x/mojo/premier/avid better.

[waymont]

I had the 6'8" MH fast and 7' MH mod-fast. Both of them were too tip heavy, and had an uncomfortable reel seat. Those two things made them very difficult for me to fish them, so I sold them. They are really well put together, and beautiful rods. They just weren't for me. The 6'8" was also more stout than I thought it would be.

[MickD]

They are excellent rods, very sensitive (a quality that has no objective measure, it's all about feel and perceptions).  Given  equal power the lighter rod will be more sensitive than the heavier one.  I doubt if you will find anything that will be significantly more sensitive.  

 

St Croix power ratings are a little different than most others.  What they call a medium power, most others will call it medium heavy, or close to that.  One of the most popular favorite rods on this forum over the years has been the SCV medium light power, fast action 6 1/2 feet (Ithink, maybe 6-8) or 7 feet.  I've built 4 of the 7 foot medium power, fast action for me and my family, and they are our favorite rods for finesse fishing.

 

If you don't like the grip ergonomics, you probably won't like the rod.

[S Hovanec]

Never cared for the LT series.  Loved the color, but every one I ever handled was tip heavy.

[CountryboyinDC]

I have 1 - a spinning rod, 6'10 M/XF.  I honestly can't tell where the extra $70-80 buys you compared to an Avid.  I can't tell the difference between these lines; there are more and smaller guides on the Legend Tournaments (and Legned Glass), but I think they're stainless Alconites just like the Avid.  That said l, my next rod purchase will likely be a Legend Tournament.  They make the only USA-made spinnerbait rod with a MH/Modfast taper between 6 1/2 and 7 feet that I can find.  That's the thing about them, there are a lot of models.  The Avid casting lineup is just a lot more limited.

[AnotherInstanceOfMe]

2 hours ago, CountryboyinDC said:

I have 1 - a spinning rod, 6'10 M/XF.  I honestly can't tell where the extra $70-80 buys you compared to an Avid. 

I strongly agree here... If you want Legend, then take Extreme, which is really lightweight and . There is very noticeable difference between Legend Tourn and Legend Extreme. But this difference is in the price as well... Go with Avid you'll love it.

From the sensitivity prospective all St Croix rods are really sensitive, regardless is it Mojo, Avid or Xtreme. I have both Mojo and  Xtreme, and really happy with both of them.

[NOC 1]

21 hours ago, NavyVet said:

What is your overall opinion of the St. Croix Legend Tourn. Bass seris of casting rods in general? Not nec. looking for a technique specific. Unable to actually see or handle one in my area.

I have 2 of the casting rods, a 7'0 MH/MF and a 7'1" M/F. As everyone says they are impeccably constructed and everything is first rate as far as the build goes.

 

That said I'm wanting to sell mine. They are so tip heavy that I have to use 7 OZ reels on them to make them anywhere near balanced. I don't find them very sensitive really. My Falcons, Megabass, ABU Villains and BLX rods are all much more sensitive it seems to me. The one place where they shine though is with a fish on. Then they feel very nice, powerful and smooth. As for the reel seat, I kind of like it, which is to say that I never really notice it.

[bwjay]

Sorry to say, I like St. Croix, but many of their rods are pretty tip-heavy and it wears on the wrist. The Legend Tournament rods are a disappointment. You really do need to go into their high end rods (Legend Elite/Extreme) to get more balanced rods. I'd like to own more of their midrange rods but there are more sensitive, lightweight, balanced rods for the same money or less.

[FishTank]

I like the LT rods and they may be a touch more sensitive than the Avid but I think it is pretty much just as good.  

 

The Medium power rods seem to be the sweet spot with the LT rods to me.  The older version seemed tip heavy in the MH line but the newer versions seem more forgiving.  

 

I think on many rods, a light weight reel is going to make the set up feel tip heavy, especially if the rod is a MH X-fast or a Heavy Fast.  It's just the nature of rod and reels.  If balance is what you are after, purchase a reel that fits what you are after in the complete setup.  

 

Also, on a side note most of the rods in the LT and below from St. Croix feel about a 1/2 to a whole power stouter than most other brands.  

[iabass8]

They are cosmetically and aesthetically amazing rods. The blanks are fantastic and their actions are some of the best in the industry. However, they are built like crap and most of the are so annoying tip heavy they aren't fun to fish with. Their 68mxf is one of the best jerkbait blanks I've ever used. 

[Bluebasser86]

I have several, both spinning and casting. I must not be sensitive enough to notice them being so incredibly tip heavy, they feel good to me. At any rate, I like them and I manage to catch a fish with them every now and then.

[ironbjorn]

2 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

I have several, both spinning and casting. I must not be sensitive enough to notice them being so incredibly tip heavy, they feel good to me. At any rate, I like them and I manage to catch a fish with them every now and then.

Tip heavy must be a real thing, but I've never noticed something weighing mere ounces as being heavy or uncomfortable either. I just kind of laugh at the notion. 

[Randy Price]

A good friend of mine (who has since went to the big lake in the sky) introduced me to St. Croix rods and Shimano Stradic reels back in 2000.  He was a fan of the Avid series.  At the time I could not afford the Avid but bought a Premier and fished with it for several years.  Eventually I could afford Avid's and Legend Elites.  I now have 16 SC rods most of them are LT or higher.  I still own a couple of Avids.  Whenever I grab an Avid I'm pleasantly surprised at how sensitive they are especially for their cost.  They aren't as light or made with as high a grade of components but I have to say IMO the Avid series is the best bang for the buck in the SC line.  Other may disagree.

[NOC 1]

10 hours ago, Bluebasser86 said:

I have several, both spinning and casting. I must not be sensitive enough to notice them being so incredibly tip heavy, they feel good to me. At any rate, I like them and I manage to catch a fish with them every now and then.

Maybe you just don't care?

 

One of my sons is like that. All of his combos are tip heavy and out of balance and he says it doesn't bother him and that he never noticed my other son and I started ragging on him about it.

[bwjay]

Sometimes tip heaviness doesn't matter as much for a given presentation. For tip-down (mostly moving bait) presentations, it's not such a big deal, but for tip-up (when you need to feel the difference in resistance/difference in rod load due to structure or a bite) I find that a tip-heavy rod fights me. As well, I grew tired of frogging with my 7' MHF Premier after just 2 days of using it for 3-4h each. My wrist wanted to fall off after that. I would not want to use jerkbaits on a tip-heavy rod for the same reason as frogging; you end up moving too much weight around with your wrist. A long lever (rod) with a weight at the end is going to take more effort to move at the fulcrum (hand/wrist).

[MickD]

Everything is tip heavy when you put a lure on the end of the line.  The longer the rod the more tip heavy it's likely to be.  For tip-up techniques balance becomes unimportant.  IMO, balance is highly overrated.  I just noticed a very high quality blank that I bought, 7 ft 2, med power, Xfast action, bare blank, blank weight 1.8 oz, latest technology, and its balance point is well ahead of where the fore end will be.  So when I put on the guides and wraps, where do I put the reel to balance it?  I will put it where it needs to be to fish right ergonomically, and it will balance where it balances.

 

The options and "magic" are much less than what most anglers understand.

[bwjay]

6 minutes ago, MickD said:

Everything is tip heavy when you put a lure on the end of the line.  The longer the rod the more tip heavy it's likely to be.  For tip-up techniques balance becomes unimportant.  IMO, balance is highly overrated.  I just noticed a very high quality blank that I bought, 7 ft 2, med power, Xfast action, bare blank, blank weight 1.8 oz, latest technology, and its balance point is well ahead of where the fore end will be.  So when I put on the guides and wraps, where do I put the reel to balance it?  I will put it where it needs to be to fish right ergonomically, and it will balance where it balances.

With frogs, topwater, and jerkbaits, there is slack line. When lifting light jigs or weightless plastics, there is slack line. When you keep swinging the rod over and over and over with a heavy tip, it will wear on your wrist. For tip up presentations, you are applying force to keep the rod up and also to pull the lure toward you. The more force you have to apply just to keep the rod up, the harder it is (for me) to detect changes in resistance/rod load. When I only have to apply a slight amount of torque to pull a worm towards me, for example, it's super easy to tell when that weight disappears (fish slurped it) or when I get hung up. A heavy rod delays and dampens that response.

 

Sometimes lightweight rods aren't super well balanced because the guides add weight, so the guidetrain has to be light too. But sometimes because the rod overall is so light, balance doesn't matter that much. With anything other than the lightest rods on the market, though, balance does matter. The 7' MHF Premier I mentioned before was a pool cue that felt dead in the hands and took a lot of effort to swing around. It wasn't just because it was heavy but because the balance point with an 8.5oz reel on the back was still about 3.5 inches in front of the foregrip (about 6 inches in front of the center of the reel seat).

[NavyVet]

Thanks for your input thus far. Got to handle an Legend Tourn. Bass spinning rod a couple of days ago and it did feel tip heavy and somewhat uncomfortable. It was a 6ft. 8in. med.

 

Have that model in an Avid spinning that I have to say felt at least as good if not better.

 

 

[NOC 1]

37 minutes ago, MickD said:

Everything is tip heavy when you put a lure on the end of the line.  The longer the rod the more tip heavy it's likely to be.  For tip-up techniques balance becomes unimportant.  IMO, balance is highly overrated.  I just noticed a very high quality blank that I bought, 7 ft 2, med power, Xfast action, bare blank, blank weight 1.8 oz, latest technology, and its balance point is well ahead of where the fore end will be.  So when I put on the guides and wraps, where do I put the reel to balance it?  I will put it where it needs to be to fish right ergonomically, and it will balance where it balances.

 

The options and "magic" are much less than what most anglers understand.

I'm sure that what you are saying is true....for you.

 

For me balance matters quite a bit. Most of my combos balance right at the lock nut of the reel seat with line installed and I notice it very much when it balances a few inches higher. I don't like it and so do not use that rod as much if at all. If I can't get a rod to balance with something as heavy as a Zillion or Tatula SV, then I don't want it.

 

For example I bought 2 of the SC TB rods that the OP is asking about sight unseen. The 7'1" Med is so tip heavy that I have never used it at all. The 7'0" medium heavy was a little better and so I tried it out a few times. They are both now sitting on my rod racks waiting to go away.

 

Yes, it probably changes the way I fish. I usually buy rods in the 6-6 to 6-10 range, order rods with top drawer guides (light) and in general have to buy more expensive rods. I also shy away from techniques where an unbalance rod is unavoidable like big frog rods, big Carolina rigs, and etc.

 

I am probably at the other extreme from the guys who say they don't really notice much. But what I say is equally true....for me.

[MickD]

If balance is important then buy the most expensive, shortest, fastest action, lowest power rod that will do the job.  And the lightest reel, most likely.

 

The rod I describe will have the lightest material, a thin tip, a fat butt, less weight in front of the reel, and not a lot of material in it.

 

I mentioned tip up because if the more the rod is up, towards vertical, the lower the torque moment generated by the "heavy tip".  The torque moment is the highest at horizontal and goes down the farther the rod is moved toward vertical and horizontal.  It's all in the physics.  When the tip is vertical, as when noodling a worm or tube along the bottom, the moment is zero.  Then it's just the weight of the outfit. (Exc for the moment induced by the reel sticking out from the spin rod.  Another argument for the lightest reel)

 

Yes, it's about personal preferences, but keep in mind that the rod builder/manufacturer has very few options that will significantly affect balance.  Probably the buyer can affect it more than the builder by buying the lightest reel possible.

 

The way I build my rods is to make them correct ergonomically for me and as light as possible.  I will not compromise ergonomics for balance.  As in moving the reel forward and risking having the butt catch on my clothing at the elbow.

[NOC 1]

23 minutes ago, MickD said:

If balance is important then buy the most expensive, shortest, fastest action, lowest power rod that will do the job.  And the lightest reel, most likely.

 

The rod I describe will have the lightest material, a thin tip, a fat butt, less weight in front of the reel, and not a lot of material in it.

 

Yes, it's about personal preferences, but keep in mind that the rod builder/manufacturer has very few options that will significantly affect balance.  Probably the buyer can affect it more than the builder by buying the lightest reel possible.

 

The way I build my rods is to make them correct ergonomically for me and as light as possible.  I will not compromise ergonomics for balance.  As in moving the reel forward and risking having the butt catch on my clothing at the elbow.

Sums me up pretty well. I cannot afford to buy all the most expensive rods, but I do tend to buy a lot of Japanese rods because they seem to think like I do and offer many shorter and lighter rods. I also favor the lowest power rods that I can use. I mostly use ML and M rods but favor Moderate taper for most things and XF for a few. I have quite a few rods under 6'6" that I like quite a bit. I guess the majority of USDM rods seem way too long and tip heavy.

 

For example my favorite rod is a 6'3" Megabass Evoluzion Super Griffon. For me it is nearly a perfect rod.

 

As for lighter reels, all but 3 of my bait casters weigh under 6 oz.

 

There are a few other things that I can do as well. I tend to favor full grips on longer rods, which does add weight, but seems to help balance a bit. The weight matters to me less than the balance with a light reel. I can also have a builder add few grams of weight to the butt if need be.

 

You are spot on about the ergonomics in my opinion. A jerk bait rod with a trolling rod handle is useless.

[PhishLI]

4 hours ago, MickD said:

Everything is tip heavy when you put a lure on the end of the line.  The longer the rod the more tip heavy it's likely to be.  For tip-up techniques balance becomes unimportant.  IMO, balance is highly overrated.

I agree with this point, but at the same time I don't discount the opinions of others that are super sensitive about balance, especially if they say they feel pain, or are worn out by less than optimally balanced setups. It could be a physical/structural issue. We're all not built the same. I've never felt a lick of wrist pain from fishing any technique, and I have more than a few tip heavy setups, but I'm built like a chimp. Personally I'm more concerned about rods loading and unloading the way I like them to. I'm very sensitive to that.

[A-Jay]

I am a LTB rod fan; casting and spinning. Feels good in hand.

I prefer the previous rendition to the current model (most of that has to do with the handle and fore grip design, personal preference) but fish and enjoy both.  The 'balance' deal does not come into play for me. 

A-Jay 

[Bluebasser86]

12 hours ago, NOC 1 said:

Maybe you just don't care?

 

One of my sons is like that. All of his combos are tip heavy and out of balance and he says it doesn't bother him and that he never noticed my other son and I started ragging on him about it.

I don't fish the tiny or super lightweight reels that a lot of people that complain about them seem to use either. Mine are mostly Tatula 150s or TWS SVs Tatulas. The tiny reels are too small in my hands and uncomfortable to hold for very long (think Shimano 50E, Scorpion 70 sized reels). I need a reel big enough I can actually get a grip on it without clenching my fist. I don't even think it's that I don't care, I just never have picked one up and thought it felt real tip heavy, but I'm sure the fact that I prefer larger reels probably has something to do with that.