Help with first custom build

[kayaking_kev]

I've been wanting to build a custom rod for awhile now and finally purchased some blanks yesterday from NFC and I have a few questions.

First off, I will list the rod specs and components I'm planning on building with and then I will ask my questions.

 

Blank = NFC X-Ray MB 736 ( 7'3 MH/F ) Casting

https://northforkcomposites.com/product/mb-736-1x-ray-lmx/

Tip = 1.7

Butt = 0.49

 

Reel Seat = American Tackle CCT BLADE G2

https://www.mudhole.com/American-Tackle-CCT-BLADE-G2-Casting-Reel-Seat?quantity=1

 

Handle Grip = G2 Carbon Handle 9" Full Length Grip Kits for G2 ( Matte 3k Silver Trim )

https://www.mudhole.com/G2-Carbon-Handle-9-Full-Length-Grip-Kits-for-G2-Casting-Reel-Seats?quantity=1&custcol_guide_frame=879

 

Fore grip = American Tackle Fore Grip Sleeve for G2 Seats with Uni-Lock Hood ( Matte 3k Silver Trim ) Size 16

https://www.mudhole.com/American-Tackle-Fore-Grip-Sleeve-for-G2-Seats-with-Uni-Lock-Hood-ULH?quantity=1&custcol_guide_frame=879&custcol21=180

 

Hook Keeper = Fuji Stainless Folding Hook Keeper

https://www.mudhole.com/Fuji-Stainless-Folding-Hook-Keeper?quantity=1&custcol_guide_frame=1

 

Guides = Fuji K-Series Polished Alconite

 

Tip Top = Fuji All-Purpose Spin/Cast Top F

https://www.mudhole.com/Fuji-All-Purpose-Spin-Cast-Top-F?quantity=1&custcol_guide_frame=298

 

_____________________________________

My main questions are about guide sizes.

 

I noticed on my Conquest and Xtasy rods that they start with 3 double footed guides, but it seems most builders only use one or two, if any at all.

 

I also noticed they both have I believe 10 guides + tip, but a lot of builders say they usually use 9 guides + tip on blanks of this size.

 

So what I'm asking is how many and what size guides should I use? For starters, I have 3 Fuji KB Size 5, and 6 Fuji KT Size 5 in my cart, but I know I'm going to have to make some changes.

 

Also, what size tip top do I need for that blank, as the tip is listed as 1.7?

 

____________________________________

 

 

My next questions are about the supplies needed, so I'll start by listed what I have selected out.

 

Epoxy = ProPaste Paste Epoxy (8 oz.)

https://www.mudhole.com/ProPaste-Paste-Epoxy?quantity=1&custcol21=156

 

Thread Finish = ProKöte Rod Building Thread Finish (8 oz.)

https://www.mudhole.com/ProKote-Rod-Building-Thread-Finish?quantity=1&custcol21=156

 

Thread Wrap = ProWrap ColorFast Rod Winding Thread (Size D)

https://www.mudhole.com/ProWrap-ColorFast-Rod-Winding-Thread?quantity=1&custcol160=2&custcolprowrap=71&custcol_spool_size=1

 

Trim Thread = ProWrap Metallic Rod Winding Thread (Size A)

https://www.mudhole.com/ProWrap-Metallic-Rod-Winding-Thread?quantity=1&custcol160=1&custcolprowrap=117&custcol_spool_size=1

 

 

Questions

 

Will 8 oz. of Epoxy and Thread Finish be enough for 4 builds?

 

Do I have the right size of thread wrapping?

 

Am I going to need reamers? And, if so what would you recommend?

 

Is there anything else that I will need?

 

Does Mudhole usually have a Black Friday sale?

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Blank tips are usually in 64ths of an inch I’d expect that blank to be a 5 or 5.5. The 1.7 might be millimeters. 8oz. Of epoxy is enough for a dozen rods or more. Size D thread looks like rope. Wrap with A. I wouldn’t invest in reamers until you’re sure you like it. Rat tail files will work especially for those grips. Turning a blank by hand to set epoxy is a pain but a great way to learn how epoxy behaves. I always recommend doing the first one at least that way. You can make a hand wrapper out of a couple shoe boxes with notches cut. Work into it gradually. 

[kayaking_kev]

58 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Blank tips are usually in 64ths of an inch I’d expect that blank to be a 5 or 5.5. The 1.7 might be millimeters. 8oz. Of epoxy is enough for a dozen rods or more. Size D thread looks like rope. Wrap with A. I wouldn’t invest in reamers until you’re sure you like it. Rat tail files will work especially for those grips. Turning a blank by hand to set epoxy is a pain but a great way to learn how epoxy behaves. I always recommend doing the first one at least that way. You can make a hand wrapper out of a couple shoe boxes with notches cut. Work into it gradually. 

Thanks for the response. I can't seem to find a 1.7 mm tip top, 4 is 1.6 mm and 4.5 is 1.8 mm. A user on this forum named Diggy said that you built a custom for him on this same blank.

 

I never heard of rat tail files, what one would you recommend for this job?

 

I plan on turning it by hand and have already made a box and practiced a little bit by removing the guides from an old rod and putting them back on.

 

What size guides would you recommend for this build?

 

Thanks again!

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Fuji Kr Double foot 10, krb 5.5(2) kr 5.5 (6). 
 

rethink grip length too. I’d use a 12” or an adjustable cut down to 10-11”

if you like the 9” that fine just be aware of what it is. 

[kayaking_kev]

36 minutes ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

 

rethink grip length too. I’d use a 12” or an adjustable cut down to 10-11”

if you like the 9” that fine just be aware of what it is. 

I had the 12" selected out, but then I measured my 7'2 Xtasy grip and it was barely over 9", so I switched, because I do fish from a kayak a lot and like a shorter handle. I will probably go with the 12" on the MB-7109 that I have, but I plan on cutting that down from 7"10 to maybe 7'5.

 

Thanks for the help with the guide sizes. When I need some reels serviced, I will for sure hit you up, or if I suck really bad at building I might have to get up with you to do my other 3 builds.

[.ghoti.]

Guide sizing is all up to you. My personal builds use all small guides. As small as size 3. If you use braid, you will not want to go smaller than a 4.5mm guide size. A Fuji Alconite size 4 will pass a well tied braid to leader knot. Go with a 4.5 just to be sure. No reason for double foot guides. Save weight and use all single foot guides. And use the Forhan locking wrap. Google that.

 

No rules about number of guides, except my rule, which is use the fewest number of the smallest guides which will do the job. Static load testing will tell you how many guides any particular blanks needs. Google that as well.

 

You have more than enough epoxy and thread finish.

 

Size D thread is easier to work with, at first, but A size looks better.

[kayaking_kev]

34 minutes ago, .ghoti. said:

Guide sizing is all up to you. My personal builds use all small guides. As small as size 3. If you use braid, you will not want to go smaller than a 4.5mm guide size. A Fuji Alconite size 4 will pass a well tied braid to leader knot. Go with a 4.5 just to be sure. No reason for double foot guides. Save weight and use all single foot guides. And use the Forhan locking wrap. Google that.

 

No rules about number of guides, except my rule, which is use the fewest number of the smallest guides which will do the job. Static load testing will tell you how many guides any particular blanks needs. Google that as well.

 

You have more than enough epoxy and thread finish.

 

Size D thread is easier to work with, at first, but A size looks better.

Thanks! I might just go without a double foot to save some weight, because I kind of want to add a 6" carbon fiber skin followed by a decal & hook keeper.

 

How many belly guides and runners if I were going with 9 total, and could they all be size 4.5?

 

I think I also found out the tip is 2mm, so I would need a size 5.0, but do I stay with ring size 4.5 or does it matter if I go smaller or bigger than the rest of the guides?

 

I'm also now questioning whether that 9" grip is going to make the balance bad and if cutting a few inches off of the blank would help with that, or if I should get a longer grip.

[Lead Head]

You could just grab the Mudhole basic tool startup kit. Its $150 but gets you started up nicely. It includes reamers and a drying motor. I know DVT and a few others recommend dry by hand at first but if you do that with prokote you are going to be babysitting that rod for half the day. Mudhole has size B thread in most colors and its pretty good to work with. Its a nice compromise between A and D. I think they say the included epoxy and finish is enough for 4 rods but I would grab some extra... better to have and not need.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

1 hour ago, kayaking_kev said:

Thanks! I might just go without a double foot to save some weight, because I kind of want to add a 6" carbon fiber skin followed by a decal & hook keeper.

 

How many belly guides and runners if I were going with 9 total, and could they all be size 4.5?

 

I think I also found out the tip is 2mm, so I would need a size 5.0, but do I stay with ring size 4.5 or does it matter if I go smaller or bigger than the rest of the guides?

 

I'm also now questioning whether that 9" grip is going to make the balance bad and if cutting a few inches off of the blank would help with that, or if I should get a longer grip.

Balance is over thought, if a 9” grip is comfortable run with it. Some guide height on the stripper (first guide from reel) improves line taming and casting,  to what degree depends on the reel. On a relatively powerful blank like you’re talking about the weight between a single or double foot guide is of little consequence but neither way is a deal breaker. 

[bish0p]

I prefer Generation 4 or ThreadMaster Lite finish over ProKote. ProKote takes a long time to cure, and it doesn't cure as hard as other thread finishes.

[kayaking_kev]

4 hours ago, bish0p said:

I prefer Generation 4 or ThreadMaster Lite finish over ProKote. ProKote takes a long time to cure, and it doesn't cure as hard as other thread finishes.

I've been seeing that a lot lately about ProKote. Can I still do one coat with the ThreadMaster Lite or should I go with the High Build?

[kayaking_kev]

My 3 Blanks will be here on Friday so I want to place the order for my MB-736 Build, but wanted to update a few things and get some further clarity on a couple of things.

 

 

 

Will a CRB LZR Light Duty Tip Top be ok on this MH build, or do I need the CRB LZR Medium Duty Tip Top?

 

ThreadMaster Lite or High Build?

 

 

COMPONENTS

 

Blank = NFC X-Ray MB-736 (Tip = 1.7)

Guides = Fuji KW Guide Kit (Black Alconite) Sizes (7x1),(6x1),(5x8)

Tip Top = CRB LZR Light Duty - Ring Size 5.0 / Tube Size 5.0 (2.0mm)

Grip = G2 Carbon Handle 9" Full Length Grip Kits for G2 ( Matte 3k Silver Trim )

Fore Grip = American Tackle Fore Grip Sleeve for G2 Seats with Uni-Lock Hood ( Matte 3k Silver Trim )

Reel Seat = American Tackle CCT BLADE G2

Insert = American Tackle G2 Reel Seat Inserts - Size 4

Hook Keeper = Drop Shot Hook Keeper

 

SUPPLIES

 

ThreadMaster Lite Build Rod Finish (4 oz.)

ProPaste Epoxy (4 oz.)

ProWrap ColorFast Winding Thread (Size A) 100 yds.

ProWrap Metallic Winding Thread (Size A) 100 yds.

CRB Syringes with Sealing Caps Kit

RDS Rod Drying System

Masking Tape 1/2" 

Thread Burnishing Tool

Disposable Nylon Finishing Brushes (10 x 1/4" & 10 x 1/8")

Mixing Cups & Sticks x 10

 

DECORATIVE

 

Carbon Fiber Rod Skin

Designer Rod Decal

Monochrome Gamefish Decal (LargeMouth)

 

-----------------------------------------

 

I was told I needed to add a Insert for the Reel Seat I chose.

 

[bish0p]

13 hours ago, kayaking_kev said:

I've been seeing that a lot lately about ProKote. Can I still do one coat with the ThreadMaster Lite or should I go with the High Build?

I apply three light coats of TM Lite. I could never achieve a satisfactory finish with a single coat of TM Lite. There are rod builders that can get away with a single coat of regular ThreadMaster.

[Westcoast]

I’d upgrade your tip top to something with an ,at minimum, allconite ring. 

[MickD]

Most likely with lite builds you will have to use two coats.  No problem for me since I usually have something to cut off after the first coat anyway.  I like lite because I can get good looking shapes on my wraps easily, no footballs.

[kayaking_kev]

I.D. on the Blank location where the exposed blank real seat is going is about .52

The Reel Seat I want has a I.D. of .59

The Insert for the reel seat has a I.D. of .53

 

Will I need to get the Insert, or will I just be able to arbor the reel seat?

 

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

4 minutes ago, kayaking_kev said:

I.D. on the Blank location where the exposed blank real seat is going is about .52

The Reel Seat I want has a I.D. of .59

The Insert for the reel seat has a I.D. of .53

 

Will I need to get the Insert, or will I just be able to arbor the reel seat?

 

 

If you don’t use the insert you have to to be careful where you place the arbor or it will show. I’d use an insert and thin tape arbors if needed. 

[kayaking_kev]

Can a ceramic tile saw be used to cut down a rod blank?

[MickD]

I would be VERY sure I knew what I was going to get before I would cut a blank, never from the tip, and why from the butt?  You can simulate what it will be after the cut by taping on reel seats and guides and trying it out.  I never cut a blank, better to find what I want without the need for cutting.  There are thousands of blanks out there.

 

I believe a ceramic saw would do it.  When I've cut blanks to get repair pieces I've used a very fine toothed carbide tipped tooth saw on my table saw, taped the blank to minimize splintering, and moved the work on a jig through the saw VERY slowly.  I think most builders use a dremel.  What you want is ideally high speed, slow going through the blank, taped at the cut.  Maybe those who do it more often than I will chime in.

[kayaking_kev]

39 minutes ago, MickD said:

I would be VERY sure I knew what I was going to get before I would cut a blank, never from the tip, and why from the butt?  You can simulate what it will be after the cut by taping on reel seats and guides and trying it out.  I never cut a blank, better to find what I want without the need for cutting.  There are thousands of blanks out there.

 

I believe a ceramic saw would do it.  When I've cut blanks to get repair pieces I've used a very fine toothed carbide tipped tooth saw on my table saw, taped the blank to minimize splintering, and moved the work on a jig through the saw VERY slowly.  I think most builders use a dremel.  What you want is ideally high speed, slow going through the blank, taped at the cut.  Maybe those who do it more often than I will chime in.

I know it's not ideal, but most I've talked to say a few inches from the butt won't matter too much and I think on this specific 7'10 Mag Heavy X-Ray Blank that I have that it's not going to affect it a whole lot. It's rated up to 2 ounces and I'm fine if it does lose a little bit of power.

 

I wanted the Phenix 7'3 Heavy Blank for my power rod, but that is $240 and when NFC had their sale on X-Ray blanks for $75 each I was just going to get the MB-736, but it's $35 for shipping for one blank or multiple blanks, so I went ahead and picked up the MB-733 and MB-7109 for my Finesse and Power rods. The 7'10 won't fit in the back of my truck or inside my car like a 7'6 rod will, so I have to cut it down. I didn't dry fit it and test it, but I measured it out where everything would be after the cut and held it and it still felt good to me, it's a pretty powerful rod with a long butt section, so I don't think 5" will affect a whole lot, but I will find out.

[kayaking_kev]

Has anyone ever wet sanded a blank before? I'm just curious about how much effort it would take and if it would be worth it to reduce weight. It would also allow me to put decals on without having to first apply a thin coat of finish first to get a level surface to apply the decal.

[.ghoti.]

Would not recommend sanding a blank. You have very little room for error. Besides, you need to apply a thin coat of finish before applying decals. Put the decals over epoxy for the best results. I have tried putting decals right on the blank, and had to cut them off and start over both times I tried. Didn't have to try it a third time.  

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Blank sanding is a skill that requires development and training. I don’t recommend it.