A bit of a rant...

[finatic]

A bit of a rant about my past month of fishing and learning certain things.

 

I have been having a bad time recently fishing. Line snaps, snags, one unknown mammoth fish just chomping a twenty dollar lure right off my line (and it was 40lb power pro, too). Add to that the other day I bought a craw colored KVD squarebill and while reeling it in it would swim off to the right or left. I thought the lure was defective so I took it back and got another one, and that one also swam funky. Then I had an idea - the rig I was fishing the lure on was a Ugly Stick Lite Pro rod and a President XT spinning reel. I though maybe it might just be the rig, so I attached the lure to my Field & Stream Tech Spec black and Okuma Epixor XT spinning reel and it swam perfectly straight.

 

I never thought that the rod and reel would make a difference how a bait ran, but I guess in this case it did. I'd been having a rough time recently with a lot of fishing trips just turning out to be aggravating because of line, lure and rod and reel issues. I guess there's a lot to be said for spending the extra money on better gear, whether or not that would have changed my recent experiences I don't know, but at least with the crankbait it proved to be true.

 

I'm wondering if any of you guys have had this type of experience, learning that your low end cheap gear isn't really doing the job that a more expensive setup might do. The Ugly Stik rod was clearance at walmart for $30 bucks, and the President XT spinning reel while a nice reel was still on the cheap end. Pairing them together obviously caused issues with how certain lures behaved. Then I used my Tec Spec (a go-to rod choice of mine for the past few years, because of the amazing quality) and the Okuma Epixor XT spinning reel (an amazing reel with some great performance) and everything just behaved better.

 

Also, I have been having issues with the line I've been using. I've always been a braid guy, but sometimes it's nice to have some clear line in the water when fishing certain baits. I have had terrible luck with fluorocarbon (Seaguar, P-Line, Sunline, etc.) so I started using monofilament, preferably Sufix Siege (12lb smoke green) which I never had any trouble with. Seems odd that so many guys recommend fluoro but in my experience it's crappy line with horrible memory and twisting/knotting issues. The mono I use doesn't have any of those problems.

 

Anyway, for me this has made an impression. From now on I will spend the extra money for better fishing gear - as well as line and lures.

[rtwvumtneer6]

Sounds like growing pains to me.  The good news is learning usually means improving.  I'm not saying going into debt on fishing gear will make you a better angler, but fine tuning your angling approach is a process and involves some trial and error.  Luckily, info is readily available these days so I always try and research before I buy.  

 

I have rods and reels, terminal tackle, lures, lines etc. that collect dust, but when I first purchased them I thought they were the bees knees.  I simply outgrew it.  Nothing wrong with the stuff, and I try to keep it around to help the next new angler that I run into to help save them a few bucks in their process.

 

Just a side note on the fluorocarbon... If it's a main line on a spinning reel I would stick with smaller diameter.   Generally 6-8# for me.  Also make sure your knots are tied properly.  I nearly swore off the stuff after a series of break offs, but a little practice and experimenting with my knots was the solution to that issue. 

 

[TnRiver46]

Well your suffix siege is way cheaper than any Fluorocarbon so that kind of goes against your point there. Then again I’ve always used the cheapest gear possible and never had any complaints so I’m biased 

[Cgolf]

So I have fished with an ugly stick and Shakespeare excursion and caught roughly 1000 river smallies over the years. Only thing I can figure is you fished a lure that was heavier than the rod was rated for. I have tossed a lot of bandit 100s and other square bills on a medium ugly for years and they ran just fine. 
 

Honestly IMO if you spend more than 50 bucks on a spinning reel you wasted your money. If you can afford it, I am sure there some benefits for the extra money. My most expensive spinning reel is a president, don’t think it is less than the XT but not the base. Baitcasters I realize extra money gets you more so I put my cap at 150. Just wanted to add that Shakespeare excursion is 15 to 20 years old and it was used on my trout rod this year. While it is a bit loose, it still catches fish. 
 

Glad you found something that works, just have a hard time believing the cost of the gear was the problem. Heck my largest musky was caught on a Berkeley lightning rod bought in the 90s. 
 

I agree with you flouro is over rated, but I know some swear by it. In my youth I fished some of the clearest water out there with solar xt and caught fish. For years I have used fireline only on my spinning rigs, but have recently been using a flouro leader for a bit more abrasion resistance. Fireline will be my main line till they stop making it. 

[finatic]

52 minutes ago, TnRiver46 said:

Well your suffix siege is way cheaper than any Fluorocarbon so that kind of goes against your point there. Then again I’ve always used the cheapest gear possible and never had any complaints so I’m biased 

 

True, but the Sufix is better than any of the fluoro I've used (no twisting or knots). I have spent almost thirty bucks on a spool of Seaguar Invizx and it has horrible memory, knotting, etc.

28 minutes ago, cgolf said:

Glad you found something that works, just have a hard time believing the cost of the gear was the problem. Heck my largest musky was caught on a Berkeley lightning rod bought in the 90s. 

I had a lightning rod and it was pretty good. Right now I have the President XT on a twenty dollar Shimano Stimula (I took the ugly stik back). I'll just use it for jigging plastics, tubes and such. I see your point about not needing hugely expensive gear, except of course when it comes to the baitcasters (the Okuma Epixor XT was only sixty bucks and it's a great reel).

[soflabasser]

I have been fishing for over 20 years, caught over 200 species of fish and I find Ugly Stiks to be very good. I do own expensive gear but there are times I prefer fishing with Ugly Stik rods and similar priced reels. Besides it is more important how you fish than what gear you own.

[Cgolf]

6 minutes ago, finatic said:

 

True, but the Sufix is better than any of the fluoro I've used (no twisting or knots). I have spent almost thirty bucks on a spool of Seaguar Invizx and it has horrible memory, knotting, etc.

I had a lightning rod and it was pretty good. Right now I have the President XT on a twenty dollar Shimano Stimula (I took the ugly stik back). I'll just use it for jigging plastics, tubes and such. I see your point about not needing hugely expensive gear, except of course when it comes to the baitcasters (the Okuma Epixor XT was only sixty bucks and it's a great reel).

I have upgraded some rods for sure over the years with some in the 150 to 240 range full price, didn’t pay that though as they were on sale for use in the boat. My river rods though are mostly ugly sticks because they sit in my truck at work in the baking heat, ok it’s WI but we do see mid to upper 90s during the summer. Also don’t want high priced gear to get ripped off. I have no clue why that Shakespeare reel has been so good to me, but I will take it. I have a second one of the same vintage that basically was never used, maybe it will get me to 2040 lol. 
 

For me though upgrading has been a slow process and honestly I have been fine with it. Since I fish braid a lot, that adds sensitivity to a combo that is lost with flouro or mono. I once fished yo Zuri hybrid on an St Croix avid and the sensitivity felt like an ugly stick with braid. I have a soft spot for ugly sticks because they have been good to me as a budget angler over the years.
 

After getting beat up years ago on another forum for not using high end rods and reels and lucky craft baits to catch smallies, I happy to be budget conscious angler. 

[finatic]

2 minutes ago, cgolf said:

I have upgraded some rods for sure over the years with some in the 150 to 240 range full price, didn’t pay that though as they were on sale for use in the boat. My river rods though are mostly ugly sticks because they sit in my truck at work in the baking heat, ok it’s WI but we do see mid to upper 90s during the summer. Also don’t want high priced gear to get ripped off. I have no clue why that Shakespeare reel has been so good to me, but I will take it. I have a second one of the same vintage that basically was never used, maybe it will get me to 2040 lol. 
 

For me though upgrading has been a slow process and honestly I have been fine with it. Since I fish braid a lot, that adds sensitivity to a combo that is lost with flouro or mono. I once fished yo Zuri hybrid on an St Croix avid and the sensitivity felt like an ugly stick with braid. I have a soft spot for ugly sticks because they have been good to me as a budget angler over the years.
 

After getting beat up years ago on another forum for not using high end rods and reels and lucky craft baits to catch smallies, I happy to be budget conscious angler. 

 

I have always loved ugly stiks myself. Now I do have a nice Ugly Stik GX2 which I use for catfishing and that rod has been awesome. Have it paired with an old Okuma FINA. Maybe I just got a bad rod with the lite pro. I'll have to shop around and see what I can find.

[Cgolf]

3 minutes ago, soflabasser said:

I have been fishing for over 20 years, caught over 200 species of fish and I find Ugly Sticks to be very good rods.

I know that amongst walleye trollers, I believe the Call 1100 ugly was considered one of the best rods for that technique and I was lucky to get one before it was discontinued. The rods are pretty much bulletproof which makes them a great buy for many anglers. In my early days I broke the tipi on a lot of 10 buck budget rods, then once I stepped up to an ugly for an extra 10 to 15, that rod is still around and used occasionally to this day. 

[soflabasser]

3 minutes ago, cgolf said:

I know that amongst walleye trollers, I believe the Call 1100 ugly was considered one of the best rods for that technique and I was lucky to get one before it was discontinued. The rods are pretty much bulletproof which makes them a great buy for many anglers. In my early days I broke the tipi on a lot of 10 buck budget rods, then once I stepped up to an ugly for an extra 10 to 15, that rod is still around and used occasionally to this day. 

Have caught walleye, they are fun to catch and taste good. Ugly Stiks are well known for being abuse resistant and long lasting rods. I got several of them that are +20 years old and I still fish with them, especially for saltwater fishing.

[Bluebasser86]

Sounds like your crankbait just needs tuned, not uncommon with mass produced baits. It's a simple process. The metal ring that the split ring you tie your line to just needs bent back to center. Whichever direction the bait is running off to, use a pair of pliers to slightly tweak it the opposite direction and test it again. Do it until it swims true.

[Cgolf]

Just now, finatic said:

 

I have always loved ugly stiks myself. Now I do have a nice Ugly Stik GX2 which I use for catfishing and that rod has been awesome. Have it paired with an old Okuma FINA. Maybe I just got a bad rod with the lite pro. I'll have to shop around and see what I can find.

One thing is to watch for sales too. Not sure your budget, but I have picked up two Dobyns Sierra spinning rods at around 100 apiece on sale the last 2 years. Love those rods. 

[kayaking_kev]

I've only used an Ugly Stik Gx2, bought 3 of them in the Wal-Mart clearance section a few years ago for $9 each and they caught me a lot of fish. I keep one 6'0 2 piece Gx2 in my Truck at all times and there have been a few days this year where I left the Conquest & Xtasy at home and only took the Ugly Stik with me. Are you sure you didn't have a rod with crooked guides or a bad blank or something?

[finatic]

1 minute ago, kayaking_kev said:

I've only used an Ugly Stik Gx2, bought 3 of them in the Wal-Mart clearance section a few years ago for $9 each and they caught me a lot of fish. I keep one 6'0 2 piece Gx2 in my Truck at all times and there have been a few days this year where I left the Conquest & Xtasy at home and only took the Ugly Stik with me. Are you sure you didn't have a rod with crooked guides or a bad blank or something?

I always check the guides at the store before I buy anything. The guides on the lite pro were nice and straight, none of them were bent or wonky. I don't know what the issues with it was. I do know that whenever I casted I could feel the line kind of clunking through the guides, which is a bit odd. 

[Jonas Staggs]

I haven't had any problems like that with cheap gear at all. Keep in mind, snags, tangles, break offs, lost lures, its all part of fishing. I tell myself that sometimes when it happens, like hey it wouldn't be fishing if my line didn't get snagged in all these bushes etc.

 

Regarding cheap gear. All my stuff is from Walmart. I have several rod reel combos. My nicest is the quantum throttle II spin combo. Graphite rod, reel has like 11 bearings. It's a nice rod combo it was like 50 bucks. But what I fish most is my UL combo, Shakespeare micro series. It was like 20 bucks. I use power pro braid and $2 mono. 

 

All my lures and baits with the exception of a few are from Walmart too. YUM baits kick ass.

 

I have had a few crankbaits with that same problem. I either tweeked them, or I found if I give it a pop, to get it under the water and then reel in, it was fine.

 

I don't see how a $300 rod is better than a $100 rod and imo not worth it. The fish don't care how expensive your gear or lures are. I have caught a ton of fish this past year on my cheap gear.

 

It sounds to me like your just frustrated, have you been getting skunked a lot lately? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[finatic]

13 minutes ago, Jonas Staggs said:

It sounds to me like your just frustrated, have you been getting skunked a lot lately? 

 

 

Yes. In the last couple weeks I have had these monstrous swirls right next to me, some big fish just churning the water. The first time I saw one of these I was out at this local park fishing on the dock. I threw in a crankbait and in the blink of an eye the line stopped, the pole bent, and then nothing - I was left with just the line and no lure (this was fifty pound power pro).

 

I've caught a couple bass but it's been pretty dead otherwise. I know it's late in the season and the conditions are changing, but I don't have enough fish knowledge to know where they may be. I've tried jigs, chatterbaits, spinners, tubes, but not getting much.

[islandbass]

I find it hard to believe that the ugly stik play any role in the CB “misbehaving.”

 

Very unlikely. It’s slower action would probably suit quite well for cranks on the hook set to boot. 
 

The two likely possible causes could be that the lure might need to tuned as bluebasser pointed out, but I think we can rule this out. 
 

The second possibility is the speed of the retrieve and the reel’s line recovery rate.  I noticed that some crank baits do not “behave” (while some work at all retrieve speeds) well when the speed of the retrieve is awfully high. Check to see if there is a difference in the line recovery rate between the two reels. This might be the culprit if your retrieving was faster than slower. 
 

With the weather in the Pac NW, this is the time to look into such things to pass the time away until the spring, lol. 

[Jonas Staggs]

16 minutes ago, finatic said:

 

Yes. In the last couple weeks I have had these monstrous swirls right next to me, some big fish just churning the water. The first time I saw one of these I was out at this local park fishing on the dock. I threw in a crankbait and in the blink of an eye the line stopped, the pole bent, and then nothing - I was left with just the line and no lure (this was fifty pound power pro).

 

I've caught a couple bass but it's been pretty dead otherwise. I know it's late in the season and the conditions are changing, but I don't have enough fish knowledge to know where they may be. I've tried jigs, chatterbaits, spinners, tubes, but not getting much.

 

 

Do you know what kind of fish were making those swirls? Where are you located? Are you tying the braid directly? Keep in mind braid has low abrasion resistance, so if you ran a leader those break offs might not be happening. 

 

We all loose lures and baits, which is why I buy cheap ones. Loose it and no biggy.

 

Something I learned here on this forum, which really improved my catch ratio is downsizing everything and finesse fishing. These YouTube videos you see of dudes running 15lb flouro from their baitcaster and calling it finesse is not finesse fishing. 

 

Another thing to consider, is we can't just have the right bait, its gotta also be right place and.......time.

 

 

[Koz]

I fished with an Ugly Stick paired with a Trion and later a President and swore by it until I bought an inexpensive Lew's American Hero baitcaster combo. Until then I never realized how much I was missing with the low sensitivity of teh Ugly Stick.

 

The sensitivity of the Lew's rod was so much better, not only with structure but also in detecting bites. It was amazing. Since then I've upgraded my gear all around including a Lew's Mach II SLP combo.

 

I think there's a time and a place for an inexpensive Ugly Stick, but for me that would be for brute force type fishing.

[Tatsu Dave]

Like said above, catch a Dobyns Sierra or two on sale for about $100@......you'll be glad you did. Nothing wrong with Ugly Sticks but they are better in power situations rather than feeling structure, pick-ups, or the bottom. Line is what floats your boat really, I'm 100% into Good flouro, didn't happen overnight and wasn't a smooth beginning for sure. Once I got thru the learning curve I wouldn't change now for any reason, abrasion resistance to the max, visibility and stretch low. I finesse spin fish and its a part of that package for me, and I spend top dollar for line. Its what connects you to the fish. Reels are a place where I feel $50-$125 is my price point and where I stay at. Hang in there and don't let frustration become paramount.    Dave

[The Bassman]

5 hours ago, islandbass said:

 

The two likely possible causes could be that the lure might need to tuned as bluebasser pointed out, but I think we can rule this out. 
 

The second possibility is the speed of the retrieve and the reel’s line recovery rate.  I noticed that some crank baits do not “behave” (while some work at all retrieve speeds) well when the speed of the retrieve is awfully high. Check to see if there is a difference in the line recovery rate between the two reels. This might be the culprit if your retrieving was faster than slower. 
 

 

I was waiting for this to be mentioned. I've had it happen to me with spinning tackle. (My CI4's have a 34" IPT) Just had to make myself slow down a bit. We get conditioned to our retrieve rate.

[Cgolf]

6 hours ago, Koz said:

I fished with an Ugly Stick paired with a Trion and later a President and swore by it until I bought an inexpensive Lew's American Hero baitcaster combo. Until then I never realized how much I was missing with the low sensitivity of teh Ugly Stick.

 

The sensitivity of the Lew's rod was so much better, not only with structure but also in detecting bites. It was amazing. Since then I've upgraded my gear all around including a Lew's Mach II SLP combo.

 

I think there's a time and a place for an inexpensive Ugly Stick, but for me that would be for brute force type fishing.

My medium ugly spinning rod has worked well for jerkbaits and spybaits where feel isn’t much of an issue on flat water. The softer action for me really works with those two presentations. 
 

on the river I keep the line tight and the bait moving so the lesser sensitivity isn’t the worst thing in the world and when I snag up on rocks every 4th or 5th cast the ugly holds up to whatever I need to do to get unsnagged. 
 

But I will admit my Sierras are St Croix rods are way more sensitive. 

[finatic]

Had a much better day fishing. Went out and bought some z-man turds and some ned heads then went to my favorite fishing hole. The first one I dropped in was taken immediately by some toothy critter, but I didn't despair. I rigged up and went back in and caught several bass, including a nice pike. Unfortunately this toothy critter didn't have any of my baits hanging out of his maw.

 

 

 

[MassYak85]

It depends where your frustration is coming from. Nicer gear is a nicer experience to fish, you'll have less issues, and can focus more on actually fishing than gear failures. That said, nicer gear doesn't mean successful fishing. What it does do is give you less excuses. What do you do when you go 8 hours without a backlash, without a lost lure, without a knot failure.....without a fish? Nothing you can do but evaluate what you didn't do right or what detail you missed. 

[Jonas Staggs]

18 hours ago, Tatsu Dave said:

Like said above, catch a Dobyns Sierra or two on sale for about $100@......you'll be glad you did. Nothing wrong with Ugly Sticks but they are better in power situations rather than feeling structure, pick-ups, or the bottom. Line is what floats your boat really, I'm 100% into Good flouro, didn't happen overnight and wasn't a smooth beginning for sure. Once I got thru the learning curve I wouldn't change now for any reason, abrasion resistance to the max, visibility and stretch low. I finesse spin fish and its a part of that package for me, and I spend top dollar for line. Its what connects you to the fish. Reels are a place where I feel $50-$125 is my price point and where I stay at. Hang in there and don't let frustration become paramount.    Dave

 

 

So I bought some expensive flouro in 4# test. The line was getting frayed from the guides when I was setting my drag. I tie to a heavy object and have the drag pull at max pole bend is how I set mine.

 

I didn't notice much of a difference either between my flouro and cheap mono while fishing.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought mono has better abrasion resistance than flouro.