Tungsten vs lead

[Eddie101]

Perhaps y'all heard this before, but here goes again. With tungsten, can you feel the bottom better or is that just an urban legend? I'm in the market for some swing football head jigs, and I'm not sure if I can tell the difference between the two. Soooooooooo, What's your take on this? 

[813basstard]

I don’t know about all that but they’re smaller. Makes the bait look better. But I’ve heard of people catching bass before tungsten came out. Not sure the fish know the difference...

[WRB]

The advantage of tungsten is it isn't considered harmful to the environment.

The disadvantage is cost about 10X more then Lead.

Tungsten is a head heavy metal, lead is soft heavy metal, tungsten is heavier higher density then lead. 

So now we go into the subjective topic of feel. Can anyone feel a tungsten weight feed back better then lead or brass? Sliding bullet weights lead tends to deform creating more line drag and I can feel the bottom better with both brass and tungsten vs lead. Jigs can't tell any difference, tungsten fall faster through the water column because it's heavier.

Good luck,

Tom

PS, Barlows Tackle has a swing football head.

[Catt]

Totally & completely depends on how heavy a weight ya talking.

 

I can feel a 1/4 oz lead bullet weight hit bottom in 15' of water. 

 

It has more to do with concentration that the material the weight is made of. By the time a 1/4 oz Texas Rig hits bottom the average angler ain't paying attention no more.

 

The biggest advantage of tungsten for me is size ?

[NHBull]

For many, lead isn’t an issue due to state laws.  I wasn’t happy with the change but am glad now.  Falls fast, small size, dense material......all good pluses .

 

......this lead ban actually started on my lake years ago because dead loons were found with lead in their stomach....

[AnotherInstanceOfMe]

Initial ideas in using tungsten were to to make jighead smaller in size and more voiced than lead, because chemical density/weight of tungsten is much higher than lead's with the same volume.

The sound of a weight pulling along a rocky bottom should pique the interest of a predator fish, like zender. However, other spices are expressing "curiosity" by answering to new more voiced sound.

Answering to your question whether you can feel the bottom better or not the answer is yes. You can feel it better.

[Catt]

1 hour ago, AnotherInstanceOfMe said:

Answering to your question whether you can feel the bottom better or not the answer is yes. You can feel it better

 

If you're fishing a hard bottom then yes but after that they're pretty much the same.

[J Francho]

Initially, the industry was looking for and marketing a more PR/Eco friendly material.  Brass, Bismuth and steel were tried, but they lacked the density, though you can still find these materials.  Tungsten was more dense, but was much more expensive to produce.  Marketing shifted touting it's smaller size and better sensitivity to convince anglers it was an advantage worth paying 4-5X as much.  On hard bottom, you do feel more.  Whether that means anything that translates to more bites is hard to prove.  It does give me a feeling of confidence in what I visualize the bottom as, so I guess that's something.  I will say this, I'm just as good with a drop shot using lead, since I abandoned expensive tungsten weights.  I still use tungsten for bullet weights, simply because I like size profile.  I'll also use steel if I'm using a large plastic and a very light weight since a tungsten would be too small.  I don't feel like there's any advantage with jigs, and I really don't feel like there's any difference between the two.  Maybe it's the hook transmitting the bumps on the bottom?  Bottom line, it all feels like mush when the bottom is mush.

[CFDoc]

I’m all tungsten now as I like the smaller profile. Especially for punching.

 

Also, maybe it’s just me but I just don’t lose that many weights year after year. I probably have 4 or 5 bullet weights in each of the common sizes that have lasted me years and years. So I don’t see the cost as being that out of control for me.

For jigs, I find the tungsten skips better for me. Also, tungsten jigs can be bought for $5-6 per jig which is pretty much the same price as premium lead jigs.

[GetFishorDieTryin]

For me the difference is really noticeable with bottom contact weights like bullet/cylinder weights and DS weights.  There is a difference with jigs, but its not overwhelming.  If the tungsten doesn't have contact with the bottom the only advantage is the smaller size of the weight and effect on the environment and wildlife.  If your getting along with fine with lead there is no need for tungsten.  Personally I like it, I figure if Im spending $300 for a sensitive rod why wouldn't I spend $3 more dollars on tungsten to maximize the advantage of a sensitive blank.    

Tungsten has a higher density and is harder then most other non tox metals.  Using tungsten as a substitute to lead is nothing new.  Tungsten isn't an easy metal to work with, it has uniformity issues especially with round shapes.  Tungsten is a hard metal and can have a tendency to be brittle, tungsten jigheads can shatter when they hit docks or bridges    Eventually it was found that adding small amounts of nickel and iron made the uniformity process easier which lowered manufacturing costs.  Unfortunately around that same tensions in the middle East caused the government to ear mark vast quantities of tungsten for AP tungsten core rounds.  With the dwindling supply and higher demand for the semi precious metal prices rose dramatically and never returned.  For example a 3" 12GA non toxic waterfowl cartridge with 1.25 oz of tungsten shot went from just over $1.00 to the current price nearly $4.00 per cartridge. 

[J Francho]

Interesting tidbit: elemental tungsten itself is very toxic.  Tungsten carbide (used to make sinkers) is less so, though the powder can cause problems.  I'm glad it's not made domestically.  It takes a great deal of pressure to create the heat necessary to mold it.  There's a cool data sheet on the CDC site if you want to read more: https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/phs/phs.asp?id=804&tid=157

[OkobojiEagle]

So now the loons aren't dying from lead shot, but after eating a belly full of tungsten shot they're too heavy to fly...

[AnotherInstanceOfMe]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

I'm glad it's not made domestically.

Seems things have changed....

 

 

And it seems that guys are not resellers, this is what they wrote to me:

 

"We are a small family owned business in Wisconsin. Product reviews are extremely important and we depend on them. Reviews also let potential customers feel confident that they are purchasing a product from a trusted and reputable company. If you haven’t left a review we would appreciate it!"

 

 

[detroit1]

I see nothing that says they make them. 

[AnotherInstanceOfMe]

I wish they don't!

[MickD]

Come on folks, it's not about performance.  You can handle any differences in performance.  It's about whether you want to, or think you can afford to, do the best for the environment.   Make your decision.

[WRB]

Back in the 70's I decided to make bullet weights with a slot similar to a rubber weight.

I designed a tapered pin from Teflon to go inside the bullet weight hole and with the slot just pull out the pin on the line  and remove a 3/16 oz weight put on a different weight without retiring. The concept worked great but to costly to fool around with tooling.

What I learned was the smooth hole in the pin nearly eliminated line drag going through the lead weight. Weight feedback was phenomenal compared to lead bullet weights. 

When brass bullet weights became available they offered a larger smooth hole that reduced line drag and weight feedback improved greatly. The Brass n Glass era started in the 80's and still my favorite bullet weight technique. 

Tungsten weights came out to resolve the lead issue at the time and proved to be a problem. Tungsten is very hard and early weights had sharp edges cutting line. To solve that problem small diameter tubing was inserted into the hole. To resolve that problem tungsten bullet weights were machined from bar stock increasing the price to today price point.

Molding tungsten is similar to stainless steel extremely high temperature so powered tungsten is compressed with expoxy to make jigs for example.

To me the smaller size is it's selling point, California hasn't outlawed lead weight...yet.

Since  3/16 and 1/4 oz bullet and drop shot weights make up 90% of my usage Brass worked good for me.

Tom

 

[Logan S]

Since you asked specifically about swingheads, that's one that I prefer lead.  The point of the swinghead is to bounce/crawl along the bottom and deflect off things is bumps into....You get more of that with a wider head (why they are mostly all football shaped).  The smaller and heavier profile of tungsten take some of that away.  

 

In general, I prefer tungsten for worm weights.  For jigs I have mostly lead, but a few tungsten here and there - But that's more about liking the specific jig regardless of the head material.  

[Tatsu Dave]

Lead jigs, sinkers, worm weights and most other lead tackle is outlawed here in Maine. Replacement costs are higher and wardens have something new to look for in your tackle, shame tungsten is so much more expensive. I like the smaller jig heads myself...............lead is getting to be a thing of the past. Looks now like lead in bullets will be next.........

[J Francho]

3 hours ago, AnotherInstanceOfMe said:

Seems things have changed....

 

 

And it seems that guys are not resellers, this is what they wrote to me:

 

"We are a small family owned business in Wisconsin. Product reviews are extremely important and we depend on them. Reviews also let potential customers feel confident that they are purchasing a product from a trusted and reputable company. If you haven’t left a review we would appreciate it!"

 

 

There are no domestic facilities that I know of that produce their own tungsten. As for purchasing tungsten, I recommend Siebert Outdoors.

2 hours ago, MickD said:

Come on folks, it's not about performance.  You can handle any differences in performance.  It's about whether you want to, or think you can afford to, do the best for the environment.   Make your decision.

It’s also about legality. Lead is not available for sale here, though use not banned. It’s somewhat cost prohibitive to drive out of state To purchase. If you want to use lead here, you have to make it yourself, or go out of state. I’ve heard of some ordering from out of state, but that is actually illegal as well. 

[Mobasser]

I used lead bullet weights for a very long time, and just picked up some tungsten not too long ago. For me, the difference is on hard bottom areas, and weights over 1/4 oz. Most of my t rig fishing is up to 1/4 oz, so I can't see a big difference with tungsten.

[gbassman519]

For me ,Tungsten because i can feel bottom MUCH better,every little rock .i feel the bite much better also.

[Bass Junke]

15 hours ago, J Francho said:

It’s also about legality. Lead is not available for sale here, though use not banned. It’s somewhat cost prohibitive to drive out of state To purchase. If you want to use lead here, you have to make it yourself, or go out of state. I’ve heard of some ordering from out of state, but that is actually illegal as well. 

This is funny. Lead has been banned here in Mass. When I go into BPS in Foxboro there is a whole isle of sinkers. The tungsten section is tiny. Lead takes up most of the isle. I suspect there are not a lot of informed anglers in Mass. from the few I've talked to, they don't realize lead is banned here. Don't see why that makes it okay for BPS to sell it though. Makes no sense.  

[J Francho]

1 hour ago, Bass Junke said:

Don't see why that makes it okay for BPS to sell it though. Makes no sense.

The whole loon thng makes no sense.  No one can prove to me less loons died after the ban. Maybe no one has caught it yet.  There were a few chain stores selling lead here years after the sale ban, then all of a sudden they disappeared, and there was a sign stating they cannot sell lead under 1 oz. in NY.  I bet someone blew them in.  I wonder if selling is still allowed in Mass, just using it isn't.  Sort the opposite of NY, lol.

[MickD]

22 hours ago, WRB said:

California hasn't outlawed lead weight...yet.

I thought CA had outlawed everything.  My bad.