Why am I losing my leader when I get snagged....

[Team9nine]

3 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Admittedly, on anything I believe might be a plus size bass,

after the hookset on spinning gear,

I am dropping off drag pressure routinely.

A-Jay 

I’m similar but opposite. I never back off the drag, but as soon as I know it’s a better quality fish, I finger flip the AR switch on...

[A-Jay]

1 minute ago, Team9nine said:

I’m similar but opposite. I never back off the drag, but as soon as I know it’s a better quality fish, I finger flip the AR switch on...

At least half my reels are not so equipped (and I like it that way honestly).

Even so, back reeling is simply not something I could manage successfully.

If it's possible to backlash spinning gear - I'm your man.

A-Jay

 

[Team9nine]

4 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

At least half my reels are not so equipped (and I like it that way honestly).

Even so, back reeling is simply not something I could manage successfully.

If it's possible to backlash spinning gear - I'm your man.

A-Jay

 

And admittedly, I haven’t had to deal with any 5-7 pound brown fish anytime recently. Not sure if my opinion/technique would change or not if I had access to that type of quality fishery. Guessing no since I regularly tackle big cats and buffalo with my existing setups without issue. Hard to say.

[A-Jay]

Just now, Team9nine said:

And admittedly, I haven’t had to deal with any 5-7 pound brown fish anytime recently. Not sure if my opinion/technique would change or not if I had access to that type of quality fishery. Guessing no since I regularly tackle big cats and buffalo with my existing setups without issue. Hard to say.

Early and late season cool water temps are my friend.

A-Jay

[Eddie101]

44 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Always been a visual learner myself.

A-Jay

So, how many times do you wrap to complete your knot anyway? For a uni-knot, I've seen 5 and as many as 7 wraps. I'd prefer my knot to be as small as possible for better casting, hence, I use a Alberto knot. Perhaps I need to look at other options, though. Uni-knot sounds good. Heck, as long as it - whatever it may be - works for my applications, I'm game!

[A-Jay]

5 minutes ago, Eddie101 said:

So, how many times do you wrap to complete your knot anyway? For a uni-knot, I've seen 5 and as many as 7 wraps. I'd prefer my knot to be as small as possible for better casting, hence, I use a Alberto knot. Perhaps I need to look at other options, though. Uni-knot sounds good. Heck, as long as it - whatever it may be - works for my applications, I'm game!

I use 5 most of the time. 

Adding a new leader in this clip.

A-Jay

[fishwizzard]

1 hour ago, islandbass said:

I guess I look at the scenario much differently, maybe because I am a shore angler. When I get snagged up, I want that leader to break so that I don’t waste my main line. 
 

To me, that has been the one of the main reasons I would use a leader. 
 

The break off will usually happen on the leader material and not the knot. 
 

im speaking solely on breaking snags. 

I hate using a leader for that reason, if I am snagged, I want the line to break at the terminal knot so that I am just leaving a lure in the water, not the lure plus 3-6' of line.  So long as the lure is snagged so that I can pull directly against the terminal knot, I usually get all of my line back.  

 

I use Alberto/Trilene knots and unless I am running a much lighter leader, I end up breaking the Albertero leader knot most of the time.  I will sometimes use a weaker loop knot for the terminal connection, but it's hard to remember to so until I lose a leader and remember.  

[islandbass]

15 minutes ago, fishwizzard said:

I hate using a leader for that reason, if I am snagged, I want the line to break at the terminal knot so that I am just leaving a lure in the water, not the lure plus 3-6' of line.  So long as the lure is snagged so that I can pull directly against the terminal knot, I usually get all of my line back.  

 

I use Alberto/Trilene knots and unless I am running a much lighter leader, I end up breaking the Albertero leader knot most of the time.  I will sometimes use a weaker loop knot for the terminal connection, but it's hard to remember to so until I lose a leader and remember.  

I guess I wrote too fast. I meant to write to break at the knot. ? 

[NHBull]

3 hours ago, Alex from GA said:

Does anyone have trouble tying an FG knot with 6 or 8 lb fluorocarbon leader and 10 or 15 lb braid?  If I use 20 lb leader, that I use in saltwater, it ties fine but not the lighter leader.  

I tie both the FG and Uni-Uni......One trick to the FG is to mushroom the Leader tag with a match or like. This knob will prevent a less than perfect knot to hold.  

[Big Hands]

I have been using 10# braid to 8# fluoro leader all summer for dropshot fishing with a 7/7 alberto connection (and a palomar knot for the hook). I like the 10# braid for as little wind resistance as possible, increased sensitivity, and of course, the low/no stretch. I have settled on a 10 foot leader because I can break the leader several times and usually still have enough leader to fish with for the day (at a minimum). I fish mostly rocky bottoms and hangups/break-offs are frequent at times. I often replace the leader between each trip. I can replace a leader on the water, but would prefer not to if I don't have to.

[Steveo-1969]

22 hours ago, Eddie101 said:

So, how many times do you wrap to complete your knot anyway? For a uni-knot, I've seen 5 and as many as 7 wraps. I'd prefer my knot to be as small as possible for better casting, hence, I use a Alberto knot. Perhaps I need to look at other options, though. Uni-knot sounds good. Heck, as long as it - whatever it may be - works for my applications, I'm game!

I am no expert and don't catch giant brown bass like @A-Jay but I've been using a uni-uni knot for years and have never had one fail on a fish. When I break off a snag I want the leader to break at the lure, but lots of times the leader breaks below the uni-uni knot. The main line (braid) doesn't break.

 

I only use a leader on spinning. 8#-10# braid and a mono or fluoro or copoly leader from 8#-12#. The leader line is always the thickest and gets 3 wraps. Then the braid will get 5-7 wraps depending on it's thickness. I'm trying to get each knot to be the same size when I pull them together. The result is a fairly small knot and the leader length is about 3 feet.

[roadwarrior]

23 hours ago, A-Jay said:

Admittedly, on anything I believe might be a plus size bass,

after the hookset on spinning gear,

I am dropping off drag pressure routinely.

A-Jay 

Why do have your drag set tighter for the hook-set?

[Double__Digits]

I've had great success with the Alberto!

I've read where a lot of guys advocate for 8 wraps up 6 down or some variation of those numbers. I'm not a fan of that many wraps. 

IME, with small diameter leader (8lb or so) the leader has to be pulled too hard to pull the knot tight which stretches the leader weakening it.

 

With 8lb to 14 lb leader I run five wraps up and four back. (30 - 50lb braid main line).

I prefer the smaller knot this creates and haven't seen where it's any weaker or slips at all.

 

[A-Jay]

52 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

Why do have your drag set tighter for the hook-set?

"Tighter" is a relative term.

My preferred drag adjustment on every rig I throw, varies with each specific presentation & situation.

However the 'objective' is always the same.

Get a solid hookset without risking any type of gear failure.

Once the barb(s) is or are in, then the objective changes to keeping it or them there.

Unless I'm fishing very heavy cover where moving a bass up & out of it needs to happen almost immediately after a hookset, the Most pressure I Ever place on a fish, happens on the hookset.

After that, I've got nothing but time.

I one of those weird guys who fight/plays a bass. 

#nowaterskibassforme

A-Jay

[roadwarrior]

Well, this old dog can still learn new tricks and I know I am hearing from The Master.

My drag is set to what I consider perfect and I NEVER make any adjustment during the fight.

Calibrated that is 2 lbs on spinning tackle and light line; just under 3 lbs for baitcasting gear.

Now educate me.

[A-Jay]

19 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

Well, this old dog can still learn new tricks and I know I am hearing from The Master.

My drag is set to what I consider perfect and I NEVER make any adjustment during the fight.

Calibrated that is 2 lbs on spinning tackle and light line; just under 3 lbs for baitcasting gear.

Now educate me.

Well when I consider the Sea Monsters that roam some of the lakes I fish,

it can be a little tricky to be "ready" for everything with an end all 'perfect' drag setting. 

If I set it & forget - I may be missing out.

Hooked & landed on 10 FC while bass fishing . . . 

 

Do what you have confidence in. 

A-Jay

[roadwarrior]

Still don't get it...Whether it's a monster like that muskie or a 6 lb smallmouth we are still considering

pressure on the rod and stress on the line. To some extent it's like fishing for Line World Records. Making

adjustments away from ideal is confusing for me.

[A-Jay]

14 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

Still don't get it...Whether it's a monster like that muskie or a 6 lb smallmouth we are still considering

pressure on the rod and stress on the line. To some extent it's like fishing for Line World Records. Making

adjustments away from ideal is confusing for me.

Clearly we have different opinions as to what 'ideal' may be.

You believe it never changes - I believe that it does. 

 But does it Matter ?

 As long as we both put the fish we are looking to land in the net, 

we're both right. 

A-Jay

 

[A-Jay]

43 minutes ago, roadwarrior said:

Still don't get it...Whether it's a monster like that muskie or a 6 lb smallmouth we are still considering

pressure on the rod and stress on the line. To some extent it's like fishing for Line World Records. Making

adjustments away from ideal is confusing for me.

If your objective is to have the perfect drag setting for the breaking strength of your line,

then you can most certainly achieve that with a scale.

But my objective in NOT That.

My objective is to keep the hooks in the fish.

This is a completely separate deal from the breaking strength of the line. 

I could have a perfect drag, and line that never breaks - and pull hooks all Day ! 

And a scale is not going to help me.

Experience & time on the water is my scale. 

And you can bet I've lost fish and will most likely do so again.

But not nearly as many as if I never touched my drag and simply winched in every bass I hooked. 

YMMV

A-Jay

Sorry for the hi-jack @Eddie101

[roadwarrior]

5 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

Sorry for the hi-jack @Eddie101

 

Oops...Sorry, me too.

 

[Alex from GA]

I'm with AJay in loosening the drag with a big fish in no snag water.  In the 50s and 60s, when the drags weren't nearly as good as they are today, I use to back reel, no more.

[J Francho]

The original question: why are you losing the leader?  It's because your connection knot between mainline and leader is the weakest link in the system.  Rod power, drag resistance, connection knot, mainline, leader, terminal knot all play a part.  If one of those is weaker than the rest, it will fail first.  It's as simple as that.  What do you want/expect to fail first?  Without knowing the details of all those parameters, I'd assume you need to practice tying that Alberto knot, and do some break tests on it.  Another solution could be use a lighter leader.  Personally, break offs not due to teeth or abrasion are unacceptable, so I think you need to look really hard at the entire system from reel to hook.

[Team9nine]

12 minutes ago, J Francho said:

The original question: why are you losing the leader?  It's because your connection knot between mainline and leader is the weakest link in the system.  Rod power, drag resistance, connection knot, mainline, leader, terminal knot all play a part.  If one of those is weaker than the rest, it will fail first.  It's as simple as that.  What do you want/expect to fail first?  Without knowing the details of all those parameters, I'd assume you need to practice tying that Alberto knot, and do some break tests on it.  Another solution could be use a lighter leader.  Personally, break offs not due to teeth or abrasion are unacceptable, so I think you need to look really hard at the entire system from reel to hook.

This ^^

 

Historically, line-to-line connecting knots have always been weaker than line-to-bait knots. For the majority of anglers who use modern reels and properly adjusted drags, this is rarely a problem...until you become snagged. At that point in time, the argument for why the strongest knot might matter (FG) becomes apparent. For about any other time - meh.

[J Francho]

4 minutes ago, Team9nine said:

For about any other time - meh.

For just about every rig I tie up, save for the really light finesse lines, I bend a hook before anything breaks, if I lock the drag.  I like it that way.

[fishwizzard]

1 hour ago, J Francho said:

For just about every rig I tie up, save for the really light finesse lines, I bend a hook before anything breaks, if I lock the drag.  I like it that way.

This brings up kind of an interesting line of thought, people are always talking about the actual vs listed strength of line, but I never see any real talk or testing done about hook strength.  I destructively test one or two hooks every time I try a new brand/type/size, but this only lets me compare them (roughly) to other hooks that I use, it doesn’t give me a real sense of the actual force involved.
 

I’ve learned through experience how to roughly gauge the relative strength of line versus hooks for smaller lines/hooks because when I’m wading I would much rather bend/break a hook and have to replace a jighead then break off my leader and have to re-tie it while standing waist deep in water, so I try to err on the side of thicker lines and thinner hooks.