plawren53202 Posted September 15, 2020 Posted September 15, 2020 In the interest of finding good value and reasonable prices, many of my recent rod/reel purchases have been Academy brand stuff. H20 Xpress Ethos HD rods (really like them), Mettle spinning reel (not in love with it yet), and the Xpress Ethos HD baitcaster reel (super impressed with this one, dual braking system, aluminum frame, great oversized handle and knobs, casts smooth, all for $79). Now in this same pursuit I've been looking at some of the Bass Pro brand stuff as well (like the Pro Qualifier 2 line). Obviously these stores contract out with the same factories that "name brand" manufacturers use. Some of you are experts in knowing that X retailer or X name brand uses the Y factory in Korea or China, etc. Or, if anyone knows of a website or other source where I could find this information. Just wondering about some of these connections. If possible I'd like to weigh this into the analysis when trying some of these store brand products. Quote
lunkerboss923 Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 I believe the Bass Pro Qualifier is made by Lew's. Not sure about the Academy reel. 1 Quote
Delaware Valley Tackle Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 Lews doesn’t make BPS reels or their own. They both use the same Korean and Chinese manufacturers as does Pure Fishing(ABU, Pflueger, etc). Daiwa has relabeled some reels for Cabelas. You’re not going to find a store model identical to a manufacturer model for a lower price. They don’t undermine themselves that way. 3 Quote
mrpao Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 A lot of Bass Pro shops and Cabelas spinning reels are made by Daiwa. I have two of the Johnny Morris Carbonlite 2.0 spinning reels and they are the same as my Daiwa LT reels 1 Quote
Super User Bankc Posted September 16, 2020 Super User Posted September 16, 2020 Doyo, a Korean brand, makes the BPS PQ2 and several, if not all of the Johnny Morris low profile reels. They also make Abu, Lew's, Pflueger, and probably more. It's pretty easy to tell. They all use the same basic frame, so you can usually tell without opening them up, if you train your eye to look for those details. The shape of the bar above the level wind usually gives them away. They're not 1:1 copies of each other though. They're all built on the same platform, and within that platform there are various options you can have switched in or out. Hence why they can have different braking systems, different drag ratings, different ball bearing counts, etc. So nothing is truly "rebranded", but they're also not truly unique. A lot of the internal parts are interchangeable between them. So if you go to repair or upgrade one of these reels, you may have to look for parts sold as being specified for several different reels than the one you are working on. 1 Quote
DaubsNU1 Posted September 16, 2020 Posted September 16, 2020 Happens a lot...lots of shared parts...sometimes it's even a straight "re-brand." Some very good friends of mine have worked for big companies...it's amazing how much product is "shared," "knocked off," etc. It's all about making $$$ for the company. Remember, it is all about separating you from your $$$... Quote
Super User J Francho Posted September 16, 2020 Super User Posted September 16, 2020 Once, I almost missed a bite thinking about who made my reel. 13 Quote
Delaware Valley Tackle Posted September 17, 2020 Posted September 17, 2020 7 hours ago, J Francho said: Once, I almost missed a bite thinking about who made my reel. I just watched a movie and missed the ending pondering whether Sanyo and Panasonic are the same maker! Quote
kdubracing Posted September 21, 2020 Posted September 21, 2020 I don’t know who makes what in the fishing industry. But I used to work for a company in the motorcycle industry that owned several proprietary brands exactly like OP is talking about. I knew who manufactured all the items, and it made a big difference in what items I considered quality and what I didn’t. Some of the items were made in the same factory in China that made a lot of other brands, while others were made by quality manufacturers that just rebranded a good product. It is helpful information to know. I did buy a BPS spinning reel recently for the wife, and it is for sure a rebranded Daiwa. I have a Legalis as well, and it’s identical except for the color and handle. I think it may be a Revros, but I haven’t inspected close enough to determine. Quote
plawren53202 Posted September 21, 2020 Author Posted September 21, 2020 9 hours ago, kdubracing said: I don’t know who makes what in the fishing industry. But I used to work for a company in the motorcycle industry that owned several proprietary brands exactly like OP is talking about. I knew who manufactured all the items, and it made a big difference in what items I considered quality and what I didn’t. Some of the items were made in the same factory in China that made a lot of other brands, while others were made by quality manufacturers that just rebranded a good product. It is helpful information to know. I did buy a BPS spinning reel recently for the wife, and it is for sure a rebranded Daiwa. I have a Legalis as well, and it’s identical except for the color and handle. I think it may be a Revros, but I haven’t inspected close enough to determine. OP here, this is exactly why I posted my question. In response to a little bit of good natured poking fun at my original post, I am in the unfortunate position of (a) having fished long enough that I need good quality gear, e.g. rods that are sensitive or reels whose drag is good enough that they will allow me to fight a fish like I need, but (b) not a lot of surplus in the family budget right now. So I have to put in a little legwork and do some research to find good quality gear at reasonable prices. It is out there, but it takes a little work to find it. The key to finding it is, of course, information. I regularly watch the sale thread in the lures subforum. I regularly check websites for online retailers who sometimes offer great sales. I read lots of user reviews, read lots of threads on this forum, etc. For me, knowing where gear is coming from, and the real manufacturer under the brand name, helps in this process. If BP is offering a good deal on one of their reels and I knew that it was very similar to a Daiwa or Lews reel that I really like, just with a few cosmetic changes, I would be much more inclined to buy that BP reel. Quote
Super User J Francho Posted September 21, 2020 Super User Posted September 21, 2020 I get what you're saying, and I too try to avoid certain brands, and favor others knowing the origin of manufacture. It is easier to just ask about a specific line of reels. "Who makes a such and such so and so reel?" Make sense? What reels are you looking at? Quote
BassResource.com Administrator Glenn Posted September 21, 2020 BassResource.com Administrator Posted September 21, 2020 On 9/15/2020 at 7:53 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said: You’re not going to find a store model identical to a manufacturer model for a lower price. They don’t undermine themselves that way. ^^ This ^^ It's a confusing topic. Simply because brand A, B, and C reels/rods are made by the same factory doesn't mean they're exactly identical, as many believe. Most of the time, these are made "to spec", which means the components are different, even if they look identical. Wha?? Like I said, confusing. Take reels for example. These factories have a huge inventory of parts, and often of different quality and materials. They don't have just one bearing, but dozes of different types of bearings. Same with gears and other components. They may have a gear that appears to be the same, but there's 3 grades of that gear, each with different quality or tolerance levels. And then the same gear made from different materials/specs. There's at least 5,000 internal component choices when you do the matrix. And there's no shortage of companies that offer these white-label wholesale services. Bottom line, they may "look" the same, and may be made by the same factory, but that doesn't mean they're always exactly identical. 1 Quote
kdubracing Posted September 21, 2020 Posted September 21, 2020 26 minutes ago, Glenn said: ^^ This ^^ It's a confusing topic. Simply because brand A, B, and C reels/rods are made by the same factory doesn't mean they're exactly identical, as many believe. Most of the time, these are made "to spec", which means the components are different, even if they look identical. Wha?? Like I said, confusing. Take reels for example. These factories have a huge inventory of parts, and often of different quality and materials. They don't have just one bearing, but dozes of different types of bearings. Same with gears and other components. They may have a gear that appears to be the same, but there's 3 grades of that gear, each with different quality or tolerance levels. And then the same gear made from different materials/specs. There's at least 5,000 internal component choices when you do the matrix. And there's no shortage of companies that offer these white-label wholesale services. Bottom line, they may "look" the same, and may be made by the same factory, but that doesn't mean they're always exactly identical. A lot of this will depend on who owns the factory/what they manufacture. For instance, in the case of Doyo, the factory(ies) those are made, this is likely the case. That factory manufactures many different models of reels for many different brands. The factory may be owned by Doyo, and they only manufacture their own reels. Or it may be owned by some random company and they manufacture Doyo, and others. In this case, most likely, BPS (as an example) will go to that factory and mix/match components and raw materials to get what they want. This would make their reel unique and fit a price point they want to target. They would supply the factory with the specs they want to achieve using existing components from the factory's existing catalog. This would also eliminate the need to purchase tooling to make custom reels/components. The majority of the time, a proprietary brand will avoid buying tooling at all costs. That is where things get expensive. Now, take as an example, Daiwa. I don't know this to be true, just using an example. If Daiwa owns their own factories that only manufacture their own products, BPS would most likely strike a deal with Daiwa to use their existing product exactly like it is. They would change the color/stickers/etc. to make it a BPS branded item. But it is the exact same product. This would eliminate the cost of new tooling for custom parts, sourcing different raw materials, etc. It would just be a different color paint and some new boxes, which Daiwa wouldn't produce anyway. There are several different ways a proprietary brand would go about it, but it could result in a rebranded exact product. It could also result in a mix/match situation with components. But most likely, they will avoid purchasing new tooling one way or the other. If they want to explore the high end price points, that's when they may go all in with their own custom designs. Quote
Luke Barnes Posted September 22, 2020 Posted September 22, 2020 On 9/15/2020 at 9:53 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said: Lews doesn’t make BPS reels or their own. They both use the same Korean and Chinese manufacturers as does Pure Fishing(ABU, Pflueger, etc). Daiwa has relabeled some reels for Cabelas. You’re not going to find a store model identical to a manufacturer model for a lower price. They don’t undermine themselves that way. Yesterday I was told by a guy working the fishing department that the PQ2 and up are made by Lews. He could be mistaken, but i held a pq2 and a speedspool LFS side by side and they are very similar Quote
Delaware Valley Tackle Posted September 22, 2020 Posted September 22, 2020 They are both farmed out to a Korean manufacturer (Doyo in many cases). Lews doesn’t even make their own. Whoever told you that is making assumptions based on visual similarities. 2 Quote
ClearCreek Posted September 22, 2020 Posted September 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Luke Barnes said: Yesterday I was told by a guy working the fishing department that the PQ2 and up are made by Lews. He could be mistaken, but i held a pq2 and a speedspool LFS side by side and they are very similar I am not sure I would believe many "guys working the fishing department" when it comes to knowing information like being discussed in this thread. At least in my experience, many of these guys don't even know what they have on the shelves in their department. I have asked about certain items, only to be told they "don't handle that item" or they "are out of stock on that item". Then walk half way down an isle and there is exactly what I was asking about. Most of those guys will NEVER say they do not know anything about the item(s) you are referring to. ClearCreek 1 Quote
kdubracing Posted September 22, 2020 Posted September 22, 2020 2 hours ago, Luke Barnes said: Yesterday I was told by a guy working the fishing department that the PQ2 and up are made by Lews. He could be mistaken, but i held a pq2 and a speedspool LFS side by side and they are very similar He is confusing Lews being a manufacturer. They are both probably made in the same Doyo factory. They may be the same exact reel or may just be very similar. It depends on how BPS and Lew’s contracts are set up with the factory for those models, whether they have exclusive access to that exact design or not. Quote
Super User WRB Posted September 22, 2020 Super User Posted September 22, 2020 Years ago Daiwa for example supplied Casbels with Adanvage reels label Cabela's, exact same reel. Those day are long gone, now the store brands go direct to the off shore manufacture, primarily Doyo. The difference is parts supply and customer service. If you are a throw away user and price drives your wagon go for the store brands. Tom Quote
Luke Barnes Posted September 22, 2020 Posted September 22, 2020 1 hour ago, kdubracing said: He is confusing Lews being a manufacturer. They are both probably made in the same Doyo factory. They may be the same exact reel or may just be very similar. It depends on how BPS and Lew’s contracts are set up with the factory for those models, whether they have exclusive access to that exact design or not. I was confusing them as well. I thought the reputable brands made their own reels and rods. Is their any brand that owns their own factory to make their own equipment? Ive never gotten into this side of fishing before so I am clueless. Hence why I didn't trust the guy working and asked on here Quote
matbellon3 Posted September 22, 2020 Posted September 22, 2020 22 minutes ago, Luke Barnes said: Is their any brand that owns their own factory to make their own equipment? Daiwa- With factories in Japan and Thailand Shimano-With factories in Japan and Malaysia These are the only that I know of, other than that most company's and store brands contract out to manufactures such as Banax, Doyo, Kaito, and Dawon to name a few. 2 Quote
Super User roadwarrior Posted September 22, 2020 Super User Posted September 22, 2020 It makes a difference to me. Quote
Luke Barnes Posted September 22, 2020 Posted September 22, 2020 13 minutes ago, BaitFinesse said: For reels it is Daiwa and Shimano only. Abu Garcia round reels are their own designs as well but none of the low profiles are. Daiwa "80" reels are also not real Daiwas and are some non Daiwa OEM thing. That makes me feel better about owning a Shimano. Do they even make their lower end models like the SLX in their own factories? How about the rods? Quote
kdubracing Posted September 22, 2020 Posted September 22, 2020 8 hours ago, matbellon3 said: Daiwa- With factories in Japan and Thailand Shimano-With factories in Japan and Malaysia These are the only that I know of, other than that most company's and store brands contract out to manufactures such as Banax, Doyo, Kaito, and Dawon to name a few. I have a Diawa Legalis (and a BPS Carbonline 2.0 spinning that I'm pretty sure is a Daiwa Revros exact model) that were both made in Vietnam. So Daiwa either has a factory in Vietnam also, or they outsource some of their reels as well. In this day and age with profit margin and low cost driving everything, the lines are a lot more blurred than they used to be. 1 hour ago, BaitFinesse said: For reels it is Daiwa and Shimano only. Abu Garcia round reels are their own designs as well but none of the low profiles are. Daiwa "80" reels are also not real Daiwas and are some non Daiwa OEM thing. This is another way that makes it confusing. Again, I'm not sure of the details, but Abu may also have their own low profile designs, just don't own the factory and make it themselves. In my experience, usually with the lower price point products, companies will just slap their name on an existing design. With higher price point products, they may or may not provide the factory with their own design, materials to use, tolerances, etc. Quote
Jaderose Posted September 22, 2020 Posted September 22, 2020 12 hours ago, WRB said: If you are a throw away user and price drives your wagon go for the store brands. Now hang on.....I've got 5 of the old gen PQ's in my line-up and they are fantastic reels. They've gotten better as they've gotten older. Good cleaning/lube every year and a little upkeep through the season and they are rock steady. Built like a tank. I love em. I have "better" reels but for the money I paid (back then especially) they are hard to beat. Just my 02. I have no clue about the PQ2. I also have a JM Signature that I have never fallen in love with. It's ok but something about it does not make me love it and has always made me think about replacing it. Quote
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