Can't understand why people insist on running bad motor

[Way2slow]

If a motor is not running right, why keep running it, there is not motor god that's going to wave his hands over it and make it prefect again.  Let one sit, it's going to have bad fuel, dirty carbs and all kinds of running problems.  Running one like this is just inviting it to melt a piston.  Running a weak/bad battery, big no no.  People brag about running cranking batteries for years.  Well, that $100 battery can cost you hundreds in repairs to the charging system and using jumper cables can create an arc that can destroy the ECM.  Also letting the charging system charge a battery that had to be boosted off in not good.  If you're lucky, it only takes out the rectifier and your tach stops working and quits charging the battery. 

 

What brings this up is a 2006, Mercury 90hp I was rebuilding for the neighbors daughter.  I say was, because it's junk now. 

Back in the spring it was not running right and it locked up on her.  She took it to a marina on the lake and they told held one cylinder had lost compression and was bad. I told her then if she would bring it to me, I would check and fix it if needed.  Well, I guess after it cooled it had freed up since they did a compression test.  Friends told her it was fine and just keep running it.  Finally it' totally destroyed the piston, bent the rod and beat the crap out of the dome.  This motor does not have a removable head, it's part of the block.  Initial inspection after tear down, it looked like it might be salvageable so I sent it to have that cylinder bored.  After boring it and doing final cleanup, the shop discovered the dome was cracked about 2/3 the around it.  Soooo! the block is nothing but junk scrap metal.  A new block is $1,500 and no used one to be found yet. By the time shipping and taxes is added, it's over $2,000. A rebuild power head it $2,600 plus core charge.  Cores have to be rebuildable or they don't give you back the core charge.  Needless to say, this one is not rebuildable. 

This was on a 24' pontoon and she has commented she wish it had a bigger motor.  Looks like she gets to make he wish come true, when she finds another motor, she can get one bigger.

The sad part is, if she had brought if to me in the spring when I first told her to, the parts it needed would have been less than $400, now she's probably looking at $4,000 and up, depending on how much bigger motor she wants and what year and quality.

[Ski213]

That’s good advice and a good reminder. I’m not gonna lie and say I’ve never run anything when it wasn’t running quite right.
 

Not an outboard, but years ago I was out on the farm on a four wheeler. This on was a 400 2-stroke. There’s no telling how many miles I had put on this thing over the years. Heading down the back hill the pinging that you hear in those 2stroke bike engines changed in pitch. Just a little bit, but enough I noticed. Laid off of it a bit but kept on riding. About the time I got to the very back of the farm I noticed the high temp light on. It was probably on earlier, it’s kind of hard to see while you’re riding. I hit the brakes and turned the switch off. The thing kept right on running. Pulled the key, still running. Pulled the choke and that finally killed it. Up to that point I didn’t even know that running without an ignition system was a possibility.
 

The inlet to the water pump is a pressed in fitting. It had blown out somewhere on the way out there. It could’ve been worse but I did warp the head. If I had stopped when I knew something was off I would’ve seen that as soon as I stepped off and been out some time, a fitting, and some coolant. When it was all said and done I was still out that stuff plus dealing with a warped head. 

[Bankc]

There are many reasons why.  It could be that they can't afford to have it fixed and don't have the knowledge to fix it themselves.  A lot of people who own boats, especially older boats that would need repairs, are going to be under a lot of financial strain as it is.  It's a risk just owning a boat.  And maybe it's a risk they're willing to take.  I've known quite a few people who buy old boats, run them into the ground, and then park them in their yard and buy another used boat that runs, only to repeat that cycle.  It's not because they like having old, worthless boats litter their yard.  It's because they can't afford to keep up with the regular maintenance, but do occasionally find themselves in the situation where they can afford another used boat (maybe they got an inheritance or bonus check at work). 

 

Then again, some people are just lazy and irresponsible.  Maybe they can afford the repairs, but they don't want to spend the time and effort to find a shop or do it themselves.  Or maybe they have high anxiety issues and really don't like the idea of taking their boat to a mechanic.  It involves putting yourself at the mercy of a stranger.  Some mechanics will rip customers off, as we all know.  So maybe their fear of that is getting in the way of better judgement.  

 

There are many reasons why.  Most probably won't make sense to you until you find yourself in a similar situation.  One things for sure, most people would rather have a new boat in perfect working order given the chance.

[Way2slow]

I don't care who or what, when you keep operating something that has an obvious problem, it will in all probably break completely, and when it does, it usually destroys a lot more parts than the original part and cost a whole lot more to repair.  If it's not right and short on cash, just park the dang thing until it can be repaired.  It's rarely ever going to quit completely in a convenient location, so then they are stuck with no way to get it and themselves back to where they need to be.

It's not just boats, it's everything.  I hear cars running making ungodly noises from the engine or driveline.  Later you see them sitting on the side of the road or interstate with a tow sticker on them from a state trooper.  They get towed at some outrages charge and then sit in the tow lot at a ridiculous daily storage fee, plus the cost to repair probably shot through the roof.  Of course the tow companies are smart also, they see some old junker sitting there and it may sit for a week because they know they may not get their money.  A nice vehicle that looks like somebody would want back quickly gets towed within a few hours of the sticker time.  It's very rare for a anything to breakdown without giving warning signs first, but people chose to ignore them and then ***** because they got inconvenienced or stranded. 

I'm sorry, but your argument of not having the money to fix it don't fly with me.  If it's making noises that's not supposed to, it requires repair. 

As for me, there have been many time through my years I had not do something, or do without something to have the money to repair something, before it failed completely and cost me a heck of a lot more to repair.  It I could not scrape up the money to fix it then, it sat, unused until I could get the funds.

[NHBull]

Great post!

 

Last weekend I was coming off the water and and saw over a dozen boat in line to launch.

Sitting in the water was a boat that would not start and the trailer was being parked.  The partner floated the boat off.

The Fish and Game officer was just shaking his head.

 

I have also towed 3 boats in this year and that's a record for me.  

 

 

 

[GaryH]

1 hour ago, Way2slow said:

I don't care who or what, when you keep operating something that has an obvious problem, it will in all probably break completely, and when it does, it usually destroys a lot more parts than the original part and cost a whole lot more to repair.  If it's not right and short on cash, just park the dang thing until it can be repaired.  It's rarely ever going to quit completely in a convenient location, so then they are stuck with no way to get it and themselves back to where they need to be.

It's not just boats, it's everything.  I hear cars running making ungodly noises from the engine or driveline.  Later you see them sitting on the side of the road or interstate with a tow sticker on them from a state trooper.  They get towed at some outrages charge and then sit in the tow lot at a ridiculous daily storage fee, plus the cost to repair probably shot through the roof.  Of course the tow companies are smart also, they see some old junker sitting there and it may sit for a week because they know they may not get their money.  A nice vehicle that looks like somebody would want back quickly gets towed within a few hours of the sticker time.  It's very rare for a anything to breakdown without giving warning signs first, but people chose to ignore them and then ***** because they got inconvenienced or stranded. 

I'm sorry, but your argument of not having the money to fix it don't fly with me.  If it's making noises that's not supposed to, it requires repair. 

As for me, there have been many time through my years I had not do something, or do without something to have the money to repair something, before it failed completely and cost me a heck of a lot more to repair.  It I could not scrape up the money to fix it then, it sat, unused until I could get the funds.

Tell us how you really feel W2S. I agree with you...

[Bankc]

3 hours ago, Way2slow said:

I don't care who or what, when you keep operating something that has an obvious problem, it will in all probably break completely, and when it does, it usually destroys a lot more parts than the original part and cost a whole lot more to repair.  If it's not right and short on cash, just park the dang thing until it can be repaired.  It's rarely ever going to quit completely in a convenient location, so then they are stuck with no way to get it and themselves back to where they need to be.

It's not just boats, it's everything.  I hear cars running making ungodly noises from the engine or driveline.  Later you see them sitting on the side of the road or interstate with a tow sticker on them from a state trooper.  They get towed at some outrages charge and then sit in the tow lot at a ridiculous daily storage fee, plus the cost to repair probably shot through the roof.  Of course the tow companies are smart also, they see some old junker sitting there and it may sit for a week because they know they may not get their money.  A nice vehicle that looks like somebody would want back quickly gets towed within a few hours of the sticker time.  It's very rare for a anything to breakdown without giving warning signs first, but people chose to ignore them and then ***** because they got inconvenienced or stranded. 

I'm sorry, but your argument of not having the money to fix it don't fly with me.  If it's making noises that's not supposed to, it requires repair. 

As for me, there have been many time through my years I had not do something, or do without something to have the money to repair something, before it failed completely and cost me a heck of a lot more to repair.  It I could not scrape up the money to fix it then, it sat, unused until I could get the funds.

I get what you're saying.  And I'm not disagreeing with your logic.  In fact, I'm the same way.  I'm actually the kind of guy that if something's broke, I learn to fix it myself, even if I have the money to take it in to an expert.  I enjoy the learning new things, and repairing things is a great way to figure out how things work.  

 

I'm just saying that we gain nothing by judging others, but we gain a little bit of our own humanity when we try to empathize with them.  Even if their actions don't make sense to us, they're probably still based on some kind of logic.  And by showing a little compassion for others, especially others that we disagree with, we stand the chance to grow a little ourselves.  

[rejesterd]

5 hours ago, Way2slow said:

I don't care who or what

Yeah, that's pretty obvious.  I bet you don't even let your computer fan blow hard before you shut it off and rip it apart to investigate..

[Way2slow]

If it was making an obvious noise of the bearing going bad, yep, I would shut if off and fix it.  A $10 fan is a hellavalot cheaper than a CPU that fried from lack of cooling air.

 

It's not I don't have sympathy for someone that is having hard times, but when they come out of the grocery store with their $20 worth of cigarettes, and drive off in a vehicle that's lucky to make it to the stop sign.  I don't have sympathy for those.

 

Sympathy for someone have a hard time is why I was working one this boat in the first place.  I probably have over 40 hours and a bunch of my money in this "favor".  It started off I was going to take that motor off and put an Mercury I6, 115 on it that had not been run in 10 years.  After getting it running, doing a compression test and a number of other things, I put it on the pontoon.  Tilted it up and it would not clear the seat across the back.  Took the seat off and it hit the batteries in the back.  Took it back off, tore the 90 down and drove the block 140 miles round trip to get checked and bored, just to find out it was junk. Drove that 140 miles again to go get it.  Reassembled the motor so it would be all in one piece and hung it back on the pontoon and took the pontoon to a place she could leave it until she gets some income. 

All of this has not cost her one dime, it's been all on me, so before judging me, learn a little about me.  I think you will find I am not the person you seem to have pictured in your pea brain.

[Captain Phil]

The virus has put a lot of boats in the water that have been sitting for years. A friend called me for a tow a few weeks ago.  He took his boat out and it quit in the middle of Big Lake Harris.  When I got there I lifted the hatch to look at the batteries.   It was full of rags, snack wrappers, drink cans and assorted junk.  I couldn't find the battery cables through all the dirt.  I got the engine started and it ran until the water in the fuel took over.   This guy lives in a million dollar home and he's definitely not hurting for money. Properly maintaining a boat is essential unless you like drifting in open water.

 

 

[Bird]

9 minutes ago, Captain Phil said:

The virus has put a lot of boats in the water that have been sitting for years. A friend called me for a tow a few weeks ago.  He took his boat out and it quit in the middle of Big Lake Harris.  When I got there I lifted the hatch to look at the batteries.   It was full of rags, snack wrappers, drink cans and assorted junk.  I couldn't see the battery cables through the all the dirt.  I got the engine started and it ran until the water in the fuel took over.   This guy lives in a million dollar home and he's definitely not hurting for money. Properly maintaining a boat is essential unless you like drifting in open water.

 

 

I believe your theory to be correct. 

Talked to several people out on the water that hasn't had their boat on the water for years but under the circumstances thought why not, everyone else is doing it. Lol

[Shimano_1]

Its easy to say just fix it when you have the knowledge to do so. I totally agree that people should be more aware and do repairs as needed. I would definitely notice a change in my truck or boat and address it immediately.  I honestly believe there are a lot of people that just don't have the knowledge and probably have no clue that everything requires maintenance.  Work with a 27 year old guy thats truck went down a couple weeks ago. He had no clue oil was supposed to he changed every so many miles. Met another guy a few years ago that didn't know his car had bright headlights.  Just because we were fortunate enough to grow up around someone that taught us things...everyone wasn't that lucky.

[slowworm]

6 hours ago, NHBull said:

Great post!

 

Last weekend I was coming off the water and and saw over a dozen boat in line to launch.

Sitting in the water was a boat that would not start and the trailer was being parked.  The partner floated the boat off.

The Fish and Game officer was just shaking his head.

 

I have also towed 3 boats in this year and that's a record for me.  

 

 

 

If that was at Squam - I saw that too.  As I was coming in at about 11:00 am.  

 

I rounded that off by completely hosing my approach to the dock!

[NHBull]

4 hours ago, slowworm said:

If that was at Squam - I saw that too.  As I was coming in at about 11:00 am.  

 

I rounded that off by completely hosing my approach to the dock!

Yup.....I was in the black Lund

[DaubsNU1]

Got my old '60 Rich Line out and changed the plugs on the '74 Mercury 20hp 2 stroke. Engine wasn't "peeing" so I immediately shut her down. Ordered parts, tore it apart, got it fixed, put it back together. Runs like a top now. 

 

I'm very lucky with this Merc...owned it since 2000 and all I have ever done is change plugs. It just runs.

 

When something isn't running right it's gotta be fixed, and fixed right. I spent a few weeks getting my old Lawn Boy 7268 running right...even thought I don't really use it much...the x750 is hard to beat. 

[Mbirdsley]

I agree with everything said in this thread.  However, there are a lot of people out there that shouldn’t own a pedal bike let alone a boat.  Don’t know how much money we have made off of the tourists on crystal who buy a junk bay liner for their kids to destroy than want us to piece it back together Every year. Keeps the fiberglass guys in business as most people on the lake apparently don’t know that reverse is a thing and you can use it while coming into a dock. 

[Fin S]

Half the people out there don't know how to operate a boat properly, let alone maintain one.

[Way2slow]

I realize a huge number of people have no mechanical smarts or common since.  A lot of that comes from life experiences and when you were raised and went through life doing nothing, like so many today, they have nothing to build that knowledge on.

I have an older brother that can't put a nut on a screw without the directions, but at least he knows when it changes in sound or how it operates, to have it checked out, usually that means a call or trip to me.  A couple of months ago he was complaining because a body shop was going to charge him $2,200 to fix his right front fender where he rubbed a yellow painted barrier.  Since most cars are ABS plastic in the front and rear, I asked him if it crushed it, but he said it only left yellow scratches in a large area.  I told him to get some denatured alcohol and try cleaning it first. He called me back the next day and thanked me for saving him $2,200.  After the alcohol, it only had a couple minor scratches, which I told him a little rubbing compound and polish would take those out or make then unnoticeable.

You learn by going through the building blocks of things.  Hand someone a ratchet that has never used on and they scratch there head.  Have them use it and the next time they know how and what it's used for.

[TnRiver46]

My boat has been alarming at low throttle for 3-4 years but I keep driving it. I think this thread was aimed at me, maybe I’ll go canoe fishing after work this evening hahaha. I don’t know how to fix stuff and I can’t stop fishing, not even for a day. Granted, my motor has been to 3 mechanics and still does the same thing. So why do I run a bad motor? Because it’s sitting there ready to fish and I’ve tried 3 mechanics to fix it 

[TnRiver46]

On 9/15/2020 at 3:15 PM, TnRiver46 said:

My boat has been alarming at low throttle for 3-4 years but I keep driving it. I think this thread was aimed at me, maybe I’ll go canoe fishing after work this evening hahaha. I don’t know how to fix stuff and I can’t stop fishing, not even for a day. Granted, my motor has been to 3 mechanics and still does the same thing. So why do I run a bad motor? Because it’s sitting there ready to fish and I’ve tried 3 mechanics to fix it 

Update: had a friend of a friend fix the water pump issue. There was an intake mechanism like a small pvc pipe that was cockeyed . This is why the problem lasted 3 water pumps, turns out my 2 year old impeller was in tip top shape. Went trolling at idle speed all evening without an alarm, hadn’t done that in a long time. Hooray! But now the power trim goes down but not up??? Crap. Somehow I made it home without knocking the skeg off but I can’t get into the driveway..... oh boy 

[Way2slow]

There is a manual bypass valve on the power trim so if something like that happens, you open the bypass and raise or lower the motor by hand.  Raising it takes a little physical effort but that's better than trying to haul it with it down.  Open the bypass, grab down around the trim tab and start pulling outward and up, then you can put it on the trailering rest to keep it up or use something like of the those transom savers.

[TnRiver46]

1 hour ago, Way2slow said:

There is a manual bypass valve on the power trim so if something like that happens, you open the bypass and raise or lower the motor by hand.  Raising it takes a little physical effort but that's better than trying to haul it with it down.  Open the bypass, grab down around the trim tab and start pulling outward and up, then you can put it on the trailering rest to keep it up or use something like of the those transom savers.

Its plastic, totally stuck and now stripped. I’ve read that I can get a screwdriver red hot and make a new notch in the plastic? 
 

another buddy said to touch a piece of wire to the hot side of a battery and to the blue wire and it would go up. I tried that right here and it still goes down but not up 

And yes that’s  a speed limit sign in the background because I can’t get in my friggin driveway with the motor down! At least I made it close to home haha. Yet another dilemma, do I use some kinds of ramps to get it into my driveway where it will be hard to get back out, or do I trailer it to someone’s house that has a clue and can help me without knocking my skeg off on the road? 

[TnRiver46]

[Way2slow]

I haven't seen them all, but so far I've never seen on made of plastic.  Are you sure you are looking at the right thing.  It's usually on the right side, looking at the motor mount near the bottom, there is a large hole.  Get down eye level and look in the holes and you should see a very large, flat screw with a large flat common screw slot in it.  Use at least a 1/2" wide screwdriver and turn that screw several turns counter clockwise.  Some models do use a hex head socket wrench, Allen wrench and some on the left side. but so far, I've never run into one that's plastic.  Also some you will see a smaller stem sticking out from a recess with a lock ring around it (this is the more common on most Johnson Evinrude's,  but they are all on the side looking through the mount.  Just look through the holes on the side of the mount until you see one it. 

 

I would also strongly suggest you be careful about listening to buddies ansdsticking a hot wire in connectors.  Volt/ohm meters are made to trouble shoot electrical problems.  Doing what you are doing can get very expensive if you are not totally familiar with the electrical system on that motor.

 

If it's a relay problem or switch problem, what you are doing is not going to make it work.

If you look and find the two large wires going to the trim motor unplug it.  There should be a green and blue wire, Green for the grass, meaning down, blue for sky, meaning up.  Use at least a #14 wire from the battery positive and touch the blue wire going to the motor.  If it does not go up, touch the green wire, if it tries to go down, but the blue will not make it go up, you probably have a bad trim motor.  Ain't that something, tell you not to stick hot wire in connectors and then tell you to do it.  What we are doing here is not messing with the control wiring like you were doing.

If it goes up and down from those two wires, you have a bad relay, switch of some sore of a wiring problem

If it is a bad relay, just switch the two relays and that will let you get it up.

[TnRiver46]

41 minutes ago, Way2slow said:

I haven't seen them all, but so far I've never seen on made of plastic.  Are you sure you are looking at the right thing.  It's usually on the right side, looking at the motor mount near the bottom, there is a large hole.  Get down eye level and look in the holes and you should see a very large, flat screw with a large flat common screw slot in it.  Use at least a 1/2" wide screwdriver and turn that screw several turns counter clockwise.  Some models do use a hex head socket wrench, Allen wrench and some on the left side. but so far, I've never run into one that's plastic.  Also some you will see a smaller stem sticking out from a recess with a lock ring around it (this is the more common on most Johnson Evinrude's,  but they are all on the side looking through the mount.  Just look through the holes on the side of the mount until you see one it. 

 

I would also strongly suggest you be careful about listening to buddies ansdsticking a hot wire in connectors.  Volt/ohm meters are made to trouble shoot electrical problems.  Doing what you are doing can get very expensive if you are not totally familiar with the electrical system on that motor.

 

If it's a relay problem or switch problem, what you are doing is not going to make it work.

If you look and find the two large wires going to the trim motor unplug it.  There should be a green and blue wire, Green for the grass, meaning down, blue for sky, meaning up.  Use at least a #14 wire from the battery positive and touch the blue wire going to the motor.  If it does not go up, touch the green wire, if it tries to go down, but the blue will not make it go up, you probably have a bad trim motor.  Ain't that something, tell you not to stick hot wire in connectors and then tell you to do it.  What we are doing here is not messing with the control wiring like you were doing.

If it goes up and down from those two wires, you have a bad relay, switch of some sore of a wiring problem

If it is a bad relay, just switch the two relays and that will let you get it up.

Yes that’s it and it’s plastic 100%. The up button worked magically long enough to get into the driveway then quit again. I flip flopped the two top relays and now it works perfectly. Not sure what that means but thanks for the help @Way2slow. Unfortunately listening to my buddies is my way only to get anything done as I know jack squat. He was probably telling me to do what you said and I did it wrong