Perfect pond with no big bass

[BrianMDTX]

21 hours ago, gimruis said:

Definitely went over my head.  I thought the United States had moved on to modern water treatment facilities years ago, not **** filled ponds.

I just Googled sewage lagoons (or effluent ponds). Ick! 

[gim]

?

[the reel ess]

17 hours ago, 5/0 said:

A friend of mine has a 5 acre pond chock full of crappie. They’ve caught 5 gallon bucketfuls of them in a short period of time. The bass in the pond are healthy, but never over 2#. This has been the case for years. I’m convinced the crappie are detrimental to the bass population.

Bass and larger bluegill are in direct competition for minnows on most ponds. That's why most pond owners eventually get stunted bass. You reach a point of overpopulation where you can't take enough fish out for the forage to support the bass population. Throw in crappie and what do they eat? Crappie is almost never a good idea for the bass fishing in a smaller pond with limited forage options. I was fishing my favorite local 30 acre reservoir the other day and talked to a couple guys in a jon boat who proudly told me they dumped 250 channel cats in the place. I didn't say anything, but I wanted to ask them why. The place already has 8 lb bass in it as well as crappie, bluegill, shellcrackers and warmouth, that I know of. It seems to be in nearly perfect balance for bass fishing. It has big gold shiners, minnows of all kinds and probably creek chubs because it's fed by a decent size creek. On the other hand, those 250 small cats probably won't make it to maturity. I hope they don't. I hate catching a catfish.

[BassNJake]

I somehow found out about the studies of Bass by Dr Bennett on Ridge lake in Illinois.

Very interesting in what they were able to determine in the controlled conditions of an outdoor pond.

Here's a link to the Sports Illustrated article https://vault.si.com/vault/1963/08/19/this-is-the-fish-you-cant-catch-too-many-of

 

And a bit of info related to bass and bluegill populations in a pond

I know TLDR: in Summary "As the bluegills go up, the bass go down," Dr. Bennett says

 

most fishery biologists believed that the largemouth population depended on the number of other fish, usually bluegill sunfish, on which the bass could prey for sustenance. The normal ratio was considered to be three or four bluegills for every one bass, and it was thought that if the bluegill population dropped, the bass would suffer accordingly.

But studies at Ridge Lake showed these assumptions to be invalid. Dr. Bennett discovered this in the following way. Up until 1943, Ridge Lake contained only largemouths. A drainage census of the lake that year revealed that each acre averaged 48.2 pounds of bass, just about what the lake should produce. In 1944, Dr. Bennett stocked the lake with 129 bluegills, and when he drained the lake the next year in 1945, the bass poundage had dipped to 39.6 pounds per acre, while the bluegills averaged 8.4 pounds per acre. He returned both bass and bluegills to the lake and, two years later, he drained the lake again. This time the bass poundage had slumped to 31.5 pounds per acre, while the bluegill poundage had jumped to a startling 193.3 pounds. All told, at the time of this census—this was in 1947, only three years after the stocking of the 129 bluegills—Ridge Lake contained the astonishing total of 67,700 bluegills. Dr. Bennett removed 66,000 of these permanently, returning only 1,700. As a result, the largemouth population once again started to increase.

The reason for the bluegill population explosion, Dr. Bennett explains, is that largemouths are not solely piscivorous, as biologists thought, but omnivorous. Only half their diet is made up of fish. Thus the bluegills were able to increase rapidly, and as they did they not only ravaged the small bass coming off nests as fry but also competed successfully with them for such food as crayfish and other crustaceans (Daphnia, Chydorus, Bosmina, Diaptomus and Cyclops), nymphs (damselflies and dragonflies) and frogs. "As the bluegills go up, the bass go down," Dr. Bennett says

[the reel ess]

2 hours ago, BassNJake said:

I somehow found out about the studies of Bass by Dr Bennett on Ridge lake in Illinois.

Very interesting in what they were able to determine in the controlled conditions of an outdoor pond.

Here's a link to the Sports Illustrated article https://vault.si.com/vault/1963/08/19/this-is-the-fish-you-cant-catch-too-many-of

 

And a bit of info related to bass and bluegill populations in a pond

I know TLDR: in Summary "As the bluegills go up, the bass go down," Dr. Bennett says

 

most fishery biologists believed that the largemouth population depended on the number of other fish, usually bluegill sunfish, on which the bass could prey for sustenance. The normal ratio was considered to be three or four bluegills for every one bass, and it was thought that if the bluegill population dropped, the bass would suffer accordingly.

But studies at Ridge Lake showed these assumptions to be invalid. Dr. Bennett discovered this in the following way. Up until 1943, Ridge Lake contained only largemouths. A drainage census of the lake that year revealed that each acre averaged 48.2 pounds of bass, just about what the lake should produce. In 1944, Dr. Bennett stocked the lake with 129 bluegills, and when he drained the lake the next year in 1945, the bass poundage had dipped to 39.6 pounds per acre, while the bluegills averaged 8.4 pounds per acre. He returned both bass and bluegills to the lake and, two years later, he drained the lake again. This time the bass poundage had slumped to 31.5 pounds per acre, while the bluegill poundage had jumped to a startling 193.3 pounds. All told, at the time of this census—this was in 1947, only three years after the stocking of the 129 bluegills—Ridge Lake contained the astonishing total of 67,700 bluegills. Dr. Bennett removed 66,000 of these permanently, returning only 1,700. As a result, the largemouth population once again started to increase.

The reason for the bluegill population explosion, Dr. Bennett explains, is that largemouths are not solely piscivorous, as biologists thought, but omnivorous. Only half their diet is made up of fish. Thus the bluegills were able to increase rapidly, and as they did they not only ravaged the small bass coming off nests as fry but also competed successfully with them for such food as crayfish and other crustaceans (Daphnia, Chydorus, Bosmina, Diaptomus and Cyclops), nymphs (damselflies and dragonflies) and frogs. "As the bluegills go up, the bass go down," Dr. Bennett says

This is interesting reading. The excerpt doesn't mention average weight or size of either species. Average weight and population are different things. Most biologists today believe they're inversely related. More bass=smaller average. Fewer bass=larger average. Knowing both these things, it seems you would want a large population of sunfish if your goal was a trophy fishery. These days, people feed the bluegill so they reproduce more times and make more fry for the bass to eat.

 

Of course, there are lots of other factors from year to year that can't be known

[king fisher]

 

There may be a few very large fish and you just haven't been lucky enough to catch one.  Most likely there are not many larger fish due to over population of other species, but that doesn't mean one or two haven't grown to a size where even adult pan fish become prey.  You may not catch many, but might catch the monster of the pond. I fish a small lake that at first frustrated me.  I could catch baby bass around half a pound anywhere, on anything.  I had been told their were big bass there, so I kept fishing trying to find a pattern for adult bass.  I found there were a few huge bass suspended in some large trees.  I fish the lake often now, and only get a couple bites a day, but have landed 3 over ten pounds, and a few over 7 pounds.  I have only caught a couple fish between 1 and 4 pounds.

     While launching my kayak I met the lake manager.  He told me to keep all bass, because they preyed on the Tilapia.  He told me they try and net the bass in the spring when they are shallow and encourage any anglers to kill all the bass they can.  Almost the entire shoreline is gravel, with a few stick ups.  I'm no biologist but it looks like perfect spawning habitat.  After talking to the manager I believe the reason I don't catch mid size bass is there are none.  They catch most of them with the gill nets, and the baby bass are small enough to swim through the mesh.  The few large bass that survive have an abundant supply of food due to very little competition from other predators and are to big to get caught in the gill nets.  Obviously not a well manged lake for bass number, but I don't want them to change a thing.  However I do release all the bass I catch.

[moguy1973]

On 9/9/2020 at 9:30 AM, Siberianfred said:

How could i fix this? Imo it's the rock bass that have a strangle hold on this pond bc I've only caught a couple crappie ever while the biggest fish I've caught there (other than carp) are by far rock bass.

If you can keep fish out of this pond like other's said, rock bass are good eating, so are the crappie.  They are definitely in competition for food with the bass.  The smaller ones can be food for the bass also, but if they get too big they can't be eaten by the smaller bass.

[gall]

So I know a pond similar to what you describe. The issue is stunted growth even though it's only bass and blue gill. I can attest to at least one monster largemouth in that pond I thought about getting permission to thin it out a little all the bass tiny body big head. And the bluegill are i would ballpark in the multi hundreds in population 

[DaubsNU1]

Don't give up...years ago I fished a small ~2 acre pond. Caught a few 1-2 lb bass now and then. One day I was throwing the Slug-Go...BAM...8 lb largemouth!