Need advice on pond

[Smells like fish]

So I'm teaching my 13 year old nephew to fish, he's really getting into it. He has a pond approx 130 yards long by 80 yards wide it is average depth about 3-4' however about 20% at the dam is 5-6'. It has always had bluegills, bullfrogs and turtles. 3 year ago a family friend dumped in several crappie and largemouth however the drain tile wasn't ever covered til now and I assumed they left thru the pipe during high water. That's is not the case. There is bass and crappie still in it. We bought and stocked 100 largemouth fingerlings and 25 channel cats back in spring. 2 year ago we removed 18 of the turtles. This evening in less than 2 hours my nephew and I caught 65 bluegills 1 crappie (4") and 1 bass (9") all on crappie grubs.  The average bluegill is 4-5" long but maybe 1 out of 25 could be as big as 7-8". The bluegill must be many thousands. We have only thrown crappie lures grubs and stingers and I haven't thrown a bass bait yet. I am wanting to concentrate on growing the bass, what would be the best idea of managing or should I just leave it as is? For the last few weeks we been feeding dog food daily and it looks like piranha. All the fish we been catching have been pop gutted and look as healthy as can be. There is zero structure in the water. What would you do to improve the future fishing if anything? 

[Bluebasser86]

You likely need a few larger, apex predators to control your bluegill population or they'll become stunted. Crappie should never be put in a pond that size IMO, they overpopulate so easily and become stunted and worthless.

[Smells like fish]

2 minutes ago, Bluebasser86 said:

You likely need a few larger, apex predators to control your bluegill population or they'll become stunted. Crappie should never be put in a pond that size IMO, they overpopulate so easily and become stunted and worthless.

I agree and we didn't purchase any crappie but a guy dumped some in and there ya go. The only other crappie we caught was approx 9". Can you imagine the bass trying to spawn in a pond like that with no cover for the fry and ten million lil gills eating at them. I'll try an get some larger bass to add. I wonder what would be the best structure to add?

[Bluebasser86]

Hardwood trees last a long time and are usually readily available. They'll allow larger fish to hide as well as small baitfish and fry. Evergreens are always popular too. You could look up how to make a Georgia cube. Pretty simple and they'll last forever and pretty resistant to snagging when you're fishing around them.

[plawren53202]

11 hours ago, Smells like fish said:

I agree and we didn't purchase any crappie but a guy dumped some in and there ya go. The only other crappie we caught was approx 9". Can you imagine the bass trying to spawn in a pond like that with no cover for the fry and ten million lil gills eating at them. I'll try an get some larger bass to add. I wonder what would be the best structure to add?

An easy and cheap piece of cover to add is find an oak or other hardwood branch of appropriate size, place in the hole in a cinder block and fill with concrete. For a few bucks and not too much work I would think you could knock out enough to equip a pond of that size. Also, I'm not an expert but I know there are lots of resources out there on building crappie stake beds (which would work equally well for bass or bass fry), I'd look those up. In particular I have seen guys who make them (presumably pretty easy) out of wooden pallets.

 

I'm also no pond management expert, but seems to me that I might consider discontinuing feeding the bluegill dog food. It would make things a little tougher for the bluegill and require them to compete for natural food. Also, it's not legal everywhere, so you didn't hear me recommend it (?) but I would seriously think about catching a few adult bass somewhere else and dumping them in your pond.

[BrianMDTX]

1 hour ago, plawren53202 said:

An easy and cheap piece of cover to add is find an oak or other hardwood branch of appropriate size, place in the hole in a cinder block and fill with concrete. For a few bucks and not too much work I would thi

As I never heard of a Georgia cube until I saw it in Bluebasser86’s post, I Googled it and read up on many ways to add structure. The easiest was old Christmas trees (or similar evergreens) and a concrete block. Drill two 1/4” holes 9” apart, stick the trunk through the hole in the block and use heavy gauge wire through the holes and around the block to secure it. You could make six of those in less than an hour and sink them immediately without waiting for the concrete to cure. 

 

The Georgia and Shelbyville cubes look great, but more $$$ and a lot more work. 

[Luke Barnes]

A guy I know from a crappie forum has a pond that he asked me to help cull out some crappie for this reason. He ended up putting a few flathead in it to help with the bluegill and small stunted crappie. Seems to be working well for him. So maybe get with someone who is into cat fishing and get a big ol flathead and throw it in there. Talk about apex predator!

[the reel ess]

1 hour ago, BrianMDTX said:

As I never heard of a Georgia cube until I saw it in Bluebasser86’s post, I Googled it and read up on many ways to add structure. The easiest was old Christmas trees (or similar evergreens) and a concrete block. Drill two 1/4” holes 9” apart, stick the trunk through the hole in the block and use heavy gauge wire through the holes and around the block to secure it. You could make six of those in less than an hour and sink them immediately without waiting for the concrete to cure. 

We did this every year after Christmas when we owned a lake house. We would pick up all our neighbors' trees and sometimes put out 15-20 of them near our place. They're great for crappie. IMO, not as good for bass. But if it's the only cover they'll go to it. I'd rather spend a little time and make up something from PVC or ABS so you can fish treble lures around them without losing them.

2 hours ago, plawren53202 said:

An easy and cheap piece of cover to add is find an oak or other hardwood branch of appropriate size, place in the hole in a cinder block and fill with concrete. For a few bucks and not too much work I would think you could knock out enough to equip a pond of that size. Also, I'm not an expert but I know there are lots of resources out there on building crappie stake beds (which would work equally well for bass or bass fry), I'd look those up. In particular I have seen guys who make them (presumably pretty easy) out of wooden pallets.

 

I'm also no pond management expert, but seems to me that I might consider discontinuing feeding the bluegill dog food. It would make things a little tougher for the bluegill and require them to compete for natural food. Also, it's not legal everywhere, so you didn't hear me recommend it (?) but I would seriously think about catching a few adult bass somewhere else and dumping them in your pond.

What I've read is that feeding the bluegill is supposed to cause them to spawn more often during the summer and produce more small bluegill for the bass to eat, thus increasing the average bass size. When there aren't enough bluegill for the bass to eat, they find themselves in direct competition with larger bluegills for minnows only. This is the situation in many small ponds.

[Bluebasser86]

11 hours ago, Luke Barnes said:

A guy I know from a crappie forum has a pond that he asked me to help cull out some crappie for this reason. He ended up putting a few flathead in it to help with the bluegill and small stunted crappie. Seems to be working well for him. So maybe get with someone who is into cat fishing and get a big ol flathead and throw it in there. Talk about apex predator!

The problem with a flathead is they'll continue to grow, live for a very long time, and are capable of eating all but the very largest bass in a body of water. It's nothing for a modest sized flathead to eat a 4-8 pound largemouth bass, and they have no issues with doing so if they get the chance. They're also very difficult to remove from a pond once placed in one because they can become almost sedentary and just let their food come to them.

[Luke Barnes]

21 minutes ago, Bluebasser86 said:

The problem with a flathead is they'll continue to grow, live for a very long time, and are capable of eating all but the very largest bass in a body of water. It's nothing for a modest sized flathead to eat a 4-8 pound largemouth bass, and they have no issues with doing so if they get the chance. They're also very difficult to remove from a pond once placed in one because they can become almost sedentary and just let their food come to them.

That big? I didnt think they could eat that big of a fish. Wow. So i stand corrected if you're trying to build a big bass pond! Maybe a blue then? I know they get big as well but I dont think they are as known for being as voracious of predators.

[Bluebasser86]

21 minutes ago, Luke Barnes said:

That big? I didnt think they could eat that big of a fish. Wow. So i stand corrected if you're trying to build a big bass pond! Maybe a blue then? I know they get big as well but I dont think they are as known for being as voracious of predators.

Blues are just as big of fish eaters as flatheads are, but don't do as well in ponds so they'd likely just die after eating everything in the pond. I use to guide for flatheads and one thing a flathead will do on occasion during a fight is throw their stomach up along with all it's contents. I've seen little 20 pounders puke up 5lb largemouth. They know how to use that giant mouth and they're not afraid to.

[ArthurLK11]

From the sounds of it there is too much prey and not enough predators. All the bluegill do is reproduce and grow to a small size because there isn't enough to sustain them all. What you need to is lower the amount of bluegills you have in there. I would probably just keep every bluegill I catch and not throw anything back for a while. Even 4-5 inch ones can make a good snack. You'll need 10 of them for lunch, but they're pretty good. You can also stock some larger bass in there to help. Basically you need a better predator to prey ratio.