Fishing courtesy....

[Weedless]

Curious what everyones opinion is on how much distance do you give another angler at a "spot" during a tournament? Lets just say this is an "example".....guy with fastest boat goes to a single location EVERY SINGLE TOURNAMENT and stays in there the entire time and finishes in top 3 almost every time. This "hypothetical examples" spot is 9 acres of stumps with one boat path through the center of the stumps with only half the perimeter travelable.....

 

"hypothetically" this good fisherman has cut infront of most others at least once in the past 10 years when he super rarely came out of the stumps.....

 

no one else goes back in there out of courtesy...but he has taken thousands of dollars......

 

thoughts?

[BassNJake]

1 hour ago, Weedless said:

Curious what everyones opinion is on how much distance do you give another angler at a "spot" during a tournament? Lets just say this is an "example".....guy with fastest boat goes to a single location EVERY SINGLE TOURNAMENT and stays in there the entire time and finishes in top 3 almost every time. This "hypothetical examples" spot is 9 acres of stumps with one boat path through the center of the stumps with only half the perimeter travelable.....

 

"hypothetically" this good fisherman has cut infront of most others at least once in the past 10 years when he super rarely came out of the stumps.....

 

no one else goes back in there out of courtesy...but he has taken thousands of dollars......

 

thoughts?

Tournaments have rules, if the rules state you have to keep a certain distance then abide by the rules.

If it is not clearly marked in the rules, then it is up to your own discretion as to how close you want to fish.

Unwritten rules are rules that dont exist in tournaments.

Sounds as if you want to fish closer but dont want to be "that guy", while the other fisherman has no problem being "that guy"

 

[Smokinal]

9 acres is a huge area and too large to call "your own"; I'd be in there with him. Geeze, I don't think someone should expect more than 1 acre to themselves to be honest.

 

A spot I'd give another angler would be a point, a bridge etc...

 

9 acres??

[Tennessee Boy]

I think going to a spot because another guy is winning all the tournaments on that spot violates the unwritten rule of tournament fishing that is "Find your own fish."  If he used his skills to find the spot and you follow him to the spot you are stealing his spot regardless of how far apart you stay from him.  90% of fishing is finding the fish.  

[Logan S]

A boat race is sometimes a part of fishing tournaments.  Two wrongs don't make a right.  Those are my initial thoughts on this specific situation.  

 

I really hate the term or phrase "I'll give him/you this spot (or area or amount of space)"...I've heard it many times and it's even been said to me on the water.  It's as if the person saying is doing you a favor by not crowding you or stealing your stuff, despite you being there first. 

 

Fishing pressure is another big part of tournament fishing.  I can't tell you how many times I've made a run to a spot only to find a boat already on it - You say a curse under your breathe (to vent) and move on to another spot.

 

Having said all that - There is a difference between a spot and a community hole.  9 acres sounds big enough to be a community hole, though the limited access might change that.  It sounds like you know what the 'right' answer is.  

[Guitarfish]

Get two buddies to anchor up in his spot early.  Just kidding.  This is why I never tournament fished.  Don't need self induced drama and stress.

 

I did bet a work friend a six pack once that I could catch more than him.  I caught 32, he caught 2.  He was so mad he never fished with me again.  So I don't even play at competing anymore.  Lost a potential fishing bud over a sixer.

 

I know, my story has not a thing to do with money chasing types.

[RichF]

I've got to imagine that other anglers in the club have "found"/ fished that spot before...I mean, it's a 9 ACRE hole filled with timber.  If you're a bass angler, you're going to fish an obvious place like that.  Definitely sounds like a community hole type spot.  That's just something anglers have to deal with if they choose to fish community holes in tournaments.  Now it's a different story if the dude is fishing a half dozen particular trees in said community hole.  I wouldn't crowd the juice if he beat me to it but the other 8.95 acres are fair game.

[Todd2]

It's one reason I don't tournament fish. Lack of skill, desire not to lose money, and scheduling conflicts are other reasons.

 

I will say this, when I have a run in with someone at the lake, which is rare, 99% of the time it's some Yahoo Van Dam wannabe thinking they own the lake because they are in the tournament. So, I try to avoid big tournament days.

 

But 9 acres, nobody can claim that much.

[DitchPanda]

9 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I think going to a spot because another guy is winning all the tournaments on that spot violates the unwritten rule of tournament fishing that is "Find your own fish."  If he used his skills to find the spot and you follow him to the spot you are stealing his spot regardless of how far apart you stay from him.  90% of fishing is finding the fish.  

While I would agree with this on something like a brush pile or rock pile on a point I would hardly say that a 9 acre stump field is a spot this guy found. Take me to a lake I've never been to and if I see a stump field like that I'm gonna fish it. This "hypothetical spot" sounds like a well known area that others are well aware of its potential but are losing a boat race. That's to big of an area for one guy to claim so id fish it...if you feel yourself getting to close back off. Hell some of the ponds I fish aren't even half that size...but when I get to it first I don't go up to anybody that shows up and tell them to leave since its my spot.

[RoLo]

 

The distance of 2 casts

 

Roger

[Logan S]

For everyone saying that 9 acres is too big for 1 boat to 'claim', you're absolutely right...But I think the issue is that access is limited, so while it's a large area, it's not like a huge grassbed where boats can just pile in as a community hole. 

 

If it's really just 1 boat path through and the rest is inaccessible, it's not really 9 acres of fishable water...Just the sliver on either side of the boat path and 'half the perimeter'.  

On 8/24/2020 at 1:48 PM, Weedless said:

spot is 9 acres of stumps with one boat path through the center of the stumps with only half the perimeter travelable.....

 

I have no idea what lake this is or whats the spot's really like though, so just guessing based on the OP.  I think if you really want to fish it and he beats you there, the answer is to hold back a bit and fish behind him at a distance.  He may not like that, but it falls within the 'unwritten rules' as acceptable.  

[BassNJake]

23 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I think going to a spot because another guy is winning all the tournaments on that spot violates the unwritten rule of tournament fishing that is "Find your own fish."  If he used his skills to find the spot and you follow him to the spot you are stealing his spot regardless of how far apart you stay from him.  90% of fishing is finding the fish.  

 

11 hours ago, Logan S said:

For everyone saying that 9 acres is too big for 1 boat to 'claim', you're absolutely right...But I think the issue is that access is limited, so while it's a large area, it's not like a huge grassbed where boats can just pile in as a community hole. 

 

If it's really just 1 boat path through and the rest is inaccessible, it's not really 9 acres of fishable water...Just the sliver on either side of the boat path and 'half the perimeter'.  

 

I have no idea what lake this is or whats the spot's really like though, so just guessing based on the OP.  I think if you really want to fish it and he beats you there, the answer is to hold back a bit and fish behind him at a distance.  He may not like that, but it falls within the 'unwritten rules' as acceptable.  

Can you explain how a tournament angler is supposed to know what an unwritten rule is?

There are plenty of issues with the written rules and how different people interpret those rules.

How is an unwritten rule enforced?

 

What is too close? to some it may be 2 cast lengths but is that 2 casts with a 1 ounce spook or a 1/4 ounce shakey head? How do you determine if it is a community hole? If 2 different people fish it on the same day does that constitute a community? Is it 3 or 5 , how can you tell how many people fished that area if you only check it out a couple times and no one was there? If I saw a guy fishing and area and 3 days later I decide to check the area out, I cant fish it because I didn't find it? That eliminates ever fishing a new lake as someone has had to of fished that lay down or that weed bed before me.

 

To me there are no unwritten rules some situations are decided by your own moral compass

[RichF]

6 minutes ago, BassNJake said:

 

Can you explain how a tournament angler is supposed to know what an unwritten rule is?

There are plenty of issues with the written rules and how different people interpret those rules.

How is an unwritten rule enforced?

 

What is too close? to some it may be 2 cast lengths but is that 2 casts with a 1 ounce spook or a 1/4 ounce shakey head? How do you determine if it is a community hole? If 2 different people fish it on the same day does that constitute a community? Is it 3 or 5 , how can you tell how many people fished that area if you only check it out a couple times and no one was there? If I saw a guy fishing and area and 3 days later I decide to check the area out, I cant fish it because I didn't find it? That eliminates ever fishing a new lake as someone has had to of fished that lay down or that weed bed before me.

 

To me there are no unwritten rules some situations are decided by your own moral compass

I get what you're saying as there is a ton of gray area when it comes to this stuff.  It all comes down to your own judgement.  I tend to base my decisions on one simple rule: "would I be OK with it if someone else did it to me?"  

 

As far as community holes go, I define them as areas that are almost always obvious, that have great great fish attracting qualities, and that everyone fishes.  They exist in every body of water.  I would place a 9 acre timber field into that category.  With regards to seeing someone fishing an area then going to it later, 100% fair game. Not necessarily my game as I do like to find things on my own.  That unfortunately is getting harder and harder with the advancments in fish finding tech.  Everyone knows everything nowadays.

[Tennessee Boy]

I agree there is a difference between a secret spot and a community hole.  

 

I agree a guy can't claim nine acres as his spot.

 

I also think the reason you want to fish the spot matters.  If the only reason you're there is because he's been winning all the tournaments and you know where he's been catching them,  then you're trying to catch his fish.  Find your own fish.

 

I think fishing is a lot like golf.  It's played with respect for the sport and for other competitors.  In golf there are rules based on your intentions.  Since only you know what your intentions are,  these rules can only be enforced on the honor system.  I would like to see a tournament organization write similar rules for fishing.  It would take a lot of thought and effort but would be good for the sport.

 

 

[BassNJake]

In one of the small trails I fished in Ohio, the rule was if the anchor was deployed and trolling motor was out of the water another competitor could not fish within 50 yards of you.*(before the days of spot lock)*

 

This was explained as someone fishing a specific spot as opposed to fishing an area.

 

Some idiot got mad because someone else decided to use the anchor rule and beat him to the spot.

So the idiot didn't fish the area but made several passes back and forth through the area chopping up weeds and muddied the whole area up.

 

Idiot was disqualified on the unsportsmanlike rules.

 

Tourney directors have a hard job and I am always grateful for the time and effort they put in.

[Logan S]

4 hours ago, BassNJake said:

 

Can you explain how a tournament angler is supposed to know what an unwritten rule is?

There are plenty of issues with the written rules and how different people interpret those rules.

How is an unwritten rule enforced?

 

What is too close? to some it may be 2 cast lengths but is that 2 casts with a 1 ounce spook or a 1/4 ounce shakey head? How do you determine if it is a community hole? If 2 different people fish it on the same day does that constitute a community? Is it 3 or 5 , how can you tell how many people fished that area if you only check it out a couple times and no one was there? If I saw a guy fishing and area and 3 days later I decide to check the area out, I cant fish it because I didn't find it? That eliminates ever fishing a new lake as someone has had to of fished that lay down or that weed bed before me.

 

To me there are no unwritten rules some situations are decided by your own moral compass

'Unwritten rules' and 'moral compass' are the same thing IMO...Or at least the same concept.  In all sports there are lots of things that are technically not against any formal rules, but are considered poor form - Thus going against an 'unwritten rule'.  So how do you know?  You generally don't when you're starting out, but keeping an open mind and being observant are how you learn.  

 

It's hard to quantify unwritten rules and moral compasses, but in reality most people know whether they're in the right or in the wrong.  The original post isn't really hard to interpret IMO...The 'stump guy' was already being given courtesy for getting there first but now that he's "taken thousands" (shouldn't it say 'won'?), people don't want to be courteous anymore.  Putting the specific spot details and the 9 acres aside for a second, if he was being given courtesy before why should it change just because he's been successful?  

 

As for what's too close and what's a community hole...Also hard to quantify since it can be situational and different on different bodies of water...But it's another case of "you know it when you see it".

 

[Choporoz]

Have you, or anyone else, every rode up near them and asked if they mind if you pass close, but just to transit to a spot 50 yards (or more) beyond....and won't encroach?  I get the whole written rules, unwritten rules, golden rules...etc.

 

To me, the situation is a little different if the other guy says, 'Sure.  Have at the other side of the cove.'  versus, 'I don't think so -  get yourself a real motor' --   May open up a spot you've written off....or, I suppose it may just pizz you off...  

 

[DitchPanda]

11 hours ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I agree there is a difference between a secret spot and a community hole.  

 

I agree a guy can't claim nine acres as his spot.

 

I also think the reason you want to fish the spot matters.  If the only reason you're there is because he's been winning all the tournaments and you know where he's been catching them,  then you're trying to catch his fish.  Find your own fish.

 

I think fishing is a lot like golf.  It's played with respect for the sport and for other competitors.  In golf there are rules based on your intentions.  Since only you know what your intentions are,  these rules can only be enforced on the honor system.  I would like to see a tournament organization write similar rules for fishing.  It would take a lot of thought and effort but would be good for the sport.

 

 

So what your saying is if a guy catches fish off a ledge that is a known community spot on let's say a TVA lake and wins a bassmasters tournament next year nobody can fish that ledge because he owns those fish? To me it sounds like everybody knows this spot and now this guy has a stranglehold on it..so the other guys should stay out of his way and just give him the money? I don't get that logic or understand where it ends. If you are getting your butt kicked throwing a swim jig by a guy throwing a Spinner bait are you supposed to not switch and just go down with the ship?

[Tennessee Boy]

13 hours ago, DitchPanda said:

So what your saying is if a guy catches fish off a ledge that is a known community spot on let's say a TVA lake and wins a bassmasters tournament next year nobody can fish that ledge because he owns those fish? To me it sounds like everybody knows this spot and now this guy has a stranglehold on it..so the other guys should stay out of his way and just give him the money? I don't get that logic or understand where it ends. If you are getting your butt kicked throwing a swim jig by a guy throwing a Spinner bait are you supposed to not switch and just go down with the ship?

I didn't say any of that.  If it's a community hole that everyone knows about and everyone fishes then the fish belong to everyone that knows about it.  

 

In your example of the guy in the Bassmaster tournament,  if his competitors know about the spot because it's a community hole,  or because they caught fish there in practice then they have every right to fish it.  If they find our about the hole after finding out a competitor had a big day 1 catch there then they should not fish there during the tournament.  Can I fish the spot after watching the tournament on TV?  Well,  I have done that before as I'm sure many people have.  Is it ethical?  That's up for debate.  We all have spots we fish that we found out about from others.  I would never fish a spot in a tournament that someone else showed me or told me about if that person is competing in the tournament unless they gave me permission.

[DitchPanda]

32 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

I didn't say any of that.  If it's a community hole that everyone knows about and everyone fishes then the fish belong to everyone that knows about it.  

 

In your example of the guy in the Bassmaster tournament,  if his competitors know about the spot because it's a community hole,  or because they caught fish their in practice then they have every right to fish it.  If they find our about the hole after finding out a competitor had a big day 1 catch there then they should not fish there during the tournament.  Can I fish the spot after the tournament and watching it on TV?  Well,  I have done that before as I'm sure many people have.  Is it ethical?  That's up for debate.  We all have spots we fish that we found out about from others.  I would never fish a spot someone else showed me or told me about in a tournament that that person is competing in unless they gave me permission.

Guess the point I was making is how long does this guy get to claim dibs on a spot? The OP said this has been going on for ten years...Ten Years. Now I'm all for fishing ethics...I don't roll up on somebody and I don't like it done to me. When it happens to me I usually leave the spot...sometimes I say something. But this guy can't Lord over a spot nonstop for a decade...at some point the ethical clock runs out and now it's just bordering on ridiculous.

I agree with what you said about not fishing something in a tournament after a guy kills them on it. But there again we have seen this play out in big tournaments...lots of gray area...if two guys fish it first day without knowing the other one did who gets it next day?

Biggest thing to me is how do you feel about it? If your conflicted  about it then don't do it. For me I'm all about fishing ethics to a point. But if I know an area of the lake well and want to fish it but keep losing out because of boat draw or because some guy thinks he needs a 300hp in a club tourney and I should just bow down to him because I don't have 45k to spend  on a motor...well that's not gonna happen. I will give him his space, I will fish behind him...but I'm going in.

[InfantryMP]

I am not a huge tournament guy, however if I were, and this situation was going on for 10 years, I would cruise over behind the guy with "enough" space and start fishing. If he doesn't say anything to you, then obviously it is not a huge deal. If he does, it should be rather quickly, so you are not necessarily wasting a lot of time going there and finding out. I call this the trial by fire technique. 

 

Enough space to me may be different than others, but I would imagine it is specific to what your fishing on. If you are fishing a point then no one should come next to you and throw in at the point. However if there is a ton of isolated structure out there, and someone is 50-75 yards away flipping them, I would be cool with that. 

[Tennessee Boy]

There are certainly a lot of grey areas with these unwritten rules.  Another factor in the OP's scenario is the size of the lake.  On a 50 acre lake,  yeah 9 acres of stumps should be available to everyone.  If it's a huge reservoir and the guys making a 40 mile run to his secret 9 acres stump field,  that's very different.  All this interesting discussion reminds me of the big Haines/Lambert controversy on Kentucky Lake in the FLW tournament in 2018.  In that situation, I think Lambert had every right to be on the spot since he found the fish on his own and had fished there before Haines did. On day three he got to the spot 2 seconds before Haines did. The guy is this video does a good job of summarizing what happened.

 

 

 

 

 

[J Francho]

Two things:

Get a faster boat

Fish a different club

[gim]

9 acres is way too big for one boat.  Head up there and start fishing it, just don't tail pipe him or cut off his immediate future track.  Or like Francho said, get there before him.  Draw a better starting order number than he does lol

[newriverfisherman1953]

Maybe I’m missing something but what about talking to the guy rather than about him. Ask him how you can fish it without interfering with him.  Tell him ahead of time you intend to fish behind him. Is he a jerk or is he a reasonable guy?  He might be the only guy fishing the place in a tournament but I’m sure he is not the only one to ever fish it.