School me on rod lengths

[J Francho]

8 hours ago, Boomstick said:

Your math sounds right to me but the one thing you aren't taking into account is torque. The tip of the rod would be moving a little bit faster on a longer rod.

How much torque is enough?  Anyone willing to do a little test with me?  Heh.  "Hold this hook, and wait until I get a cast length of line out...."  I don't disagree that there is more torque, and I definitely feel like there's more power with a longer rod, but I don't think it's as big a deal as it's made out to be.  It's like the distance casting thing.  My shortest rod casts the furthest.  It's my topwater rod.  I can tie the same bait on a 7' rod, and it won't go as far.  I can't even use the same cast with the longer rod, so it's even more complicated than just rod length.  It's more important to be able to adapt to what you have. Maybe that's why despite having a huge pile of rigs, I have very few specialized set ups.  Outside of cranking and swimbaits, most of em can do anything within their weight range.  I fished with a dude that said he couldn't throw a spinnerbait on a 6-8 rod, it had to be 6-9.  Seriously, it must be miserable to be that focused on specifics.

[BrianMDTX]

42 minutes ago, J Francho said:

I fished with a dude that said he couldn't throw a spinnerbait on a 6-8 rod, it had to be 6-9.  Seriously, it must be miserable to be that focused on specifics.

Wow. Just...wow. 

[Boomstick]

5 hours ago, J Francho said:

How much torque is enough?  Anyone willing to do a little test with me?  Heh.  "Hold this hook, and wait until I get a cast length of line out...."  I don't disagree that there is more torque, and I definitely feel like there's more power with a longer rod, but I don't think it's as big a deal as it's made out to be.  It's like the distance casting thing.  My shortest rod casts the furthest.  It's my topwater rod.  I can tie the same bait on a 7' rod, and it won't go as far.  I can't even use the same cast with the longer rod, so it's even more complicated than just rod length.  It's more important to be able to adapt to what you have. Maybe that's why despite having a huge pile of rigs, I have very few specialized set ups.  Outside of cranking and swimbaits, most of em can do anything within their weight range.  I fished with a dude that said he couldn't throw a spinnerbait on a 6-8 rod, it had to be 6-9.  Seriously, it must be miserable to be that focused on specifics.

I'm in the same boat. The only real specialized setups is a frog rod (which is too stiff for a jig). Maybe my flipping rod fits in the same boat. As long as the rod has enough power and/or tip to set the hook, length hasn't really been a factor in getting a good hookset or not. I've gotten hooksets on jigs with large hooks on my 6'10" MH/F rod just fine.

[WRB]

I learned a long time ago that reels move line faster the rods. 

Back in the days of 5 1/2' & 6' rods we actually caught a lot of bass. It was during that time period worm and jig hook sets were cross their eyes by using a hard rod set. This technique worked about 50% of the time, bass tended to jump off a lot.

When you think about how much line does a rod move with a 90 degree swing the line doesn't follow the rod tip in a arc, it travels across the chord of the circle shegment..plus it bends a lot.

if the lure is straight down the rod set works good. If the lure is less the 45 degrees away from you the rod set still works OK because the rod is moving a lot of line about 3/4 of the rod length. If you cast horizontally away from you and the lure is only down about 15-30 degree angle the rod set doesn't move more the 1' to 2' line and the lure doesn't see any force to set the hook do to rod flex and line drag in the water.

Easy test to demonstrate. Have someone do a rod set while you hold the lure standing 25 yard or 75' away from you. The lure barely moves. Now repeat the hook set using the reel set and rod sweep technique. The lure will fly out of the hand so remove any hooks befor trying this. The force of the reel set is very high because the reel move 2' of line with each turn of the handle; 4 fast turns moves 8' of line then rod finishes the hook set by bending to take up some the shock.

You need to take into consideration all the factors and develop a hook setting technique that works for you and how you fish.  If you flip or pitch a short distance the rod set is quicker. If you only make shorter cast the rod set still works. If you are casting more horizontal then the reel set excels.

Tom

[cheezyridr]

i fish from the bank most of the time, and i miss my 5 1/2 ft pistol grip rods.  but i probably miss them because i haven't even seen one in 20+ yrs.  i've come to really like split grips.

[BrianMDTX]

7 minutes ago, cheezyridr said:

i fish from the bank most of the time, and i miss my 5 1/2 ft pistol grip rods.  but i probably miss them because i haven't even seen one in 20+ yrs.  i've come to really like split grips.

I have one, but somehow, somewhere I lost the rear seat and screw. It’s an old (like 70s vintage) Abu Garcia MF rod, so I’m probably not missing on much other than nostalgia. But I did like those grips. 

[fishindad]

Fishing has changed dramatically since I was a kid. Growing up, Homer Circle, Jerry McKinnis and others used 5:1 ratio baitcasters, 6 foot Fenwick and Eagle Claw fiberglass rods, Stren mono line with Eagle Claw hooks. Now we have high tech no-stretch braided lines, 7 foot plus high modulus heavy power graphite rods, and ultra sharp Gamakatsu and Owner hooks. Even Charlie Brewer used 4 1/2 foot glass Slider rods and 4 lb mono to boat thousands of bass. If I lose fish, it's surely "operator error" be it setting too quickly or too slowly or the fish threw the bait back at me. It's surely not for lack of the right rod length. Find the fish, put the bait in front of them and set the hook. I'll quit fishing if I need to consider whether my rod is at a 15, 30, 60 or 90 degree rod angle in order to figure out what type of hook set to use in order to boat a bass.

12 hours ago, J Francho said:

It's more important to be able to adapt to what you have. Seriously, it must be miserable to be that focused on specifics.

Best answer.

[cheezyridr]

On 8/7/2020 at 8:29 PM, fishindad said:

Fishing has changed dramatically since I was a kid. Growing up, Homer Circle, Jerry McKinnis and others used 5:1 ratio baitcasters, 6 foot Fenwick and Eagle Claw fiberglass rods, Stren mono line with Eagle Claw hooks. Now we have high tech no-stretch braided lines, 7 foot plus high modulus heavy power graphite rods, and ultra sharp Gamakatsu and Owner hooks. Even Charlie Brewer used 4 1/2 foot glass Slider rods and 4 lb mono to boat thousands of bass. If I lose fish, it's surely "operator error" be it setting too quickly or too slowly or the fish threw the bait back at me. It's surely not for lack of the right rod length. Find the fish, put the bait in front of them and set the hook. I'll quit fishing if I need to consider whether my rod is at a 15, 30, 60 or 90 degree rod angle in order to figure out what type of hook set to use in order to boat a bass.

Best answer.

when i was a kid i would walk to the crick 6 miles away with nothing.  i could find discarded line and a hook if i looked around hard enough.  i would use a piece of a stick as a bobber.  bait was easy to find.  i could stop at my grammas on the way home and get a cold glass of water and maybe a ham sandwich, and a hug.

[J Francho]

Uphill,both ways, in a snow storm, without shoes! LOL

 

[NOC 1]

On 8/6/2020 at 10:46 PM, Boomstick said:

Your math sounds right to me but the one thing you aren't taking into account is torque. The tip of the rod would be moving a little bit faster on a longer rod.

Well, given the same power applied, torque is converted in part to speed. The upshot is that a shorter rod has more torque. It's a lever after all. Longer rod equals more distance traveled with less power while a shorter rod travels less and slower but has more power given the same motion and the same power used to make it.

[NOC 1]

On 8/7/2020 at 7:29 PM, fishindad said:

 I'll quit fishing if I need to consider whether my rod is at a 15, 30, 60 or 90 degree rod angle in order to figure out what type of hook set to use in order to boat a bass.

Well, the thing is that things work the way they work whether or not you consider them. I like many others understand how they work because I have learned that. I can't unlearn it just because I am fishing.

 

BUT....personally, I don't think about it much when I'm fishing except when I have problems. For example if I'm losing fish because I'm doing 50 yd. hook sets with a 6'3" regular action rod strung with mono. It is nice to know the physics so that I know how to fix the problem. But mostly I just go with what feels best to me when fishing. I figure out stuff at work and I like fishing because it isn't like work.

 

What's the other choices? You could just stumble onto a solution I guess, or you could ask on a forum like this and let somebody else figure out how it works.

[J Francho]

Plus, it's fun to talk about when you're taking a break from writing SQL code while working from home in your basement, no where near any fish.

 

[Hook2Jaw]

On 8/5/2020 at 10:35 PM, WRB said:

Rod sets work ok with short line to lure. Reel sets with rod sweeps are far better when you cast over 60' 3 cranks with a reel is more line recovered them a 8' rod set.

Tom

Thanks.  I was going to say I really enjoy the benefits of a longer rod for setting the hook at distance, but you just solved a ton of my problems!

[Boomstick]

11 hours ago, NOC 1 said:

Well, given the same power applied, torque is converted in part to speed. The upshot is that a shorter rod has more torque. It's a lever after all. Longer rod equals more distance traveled with less power while a shorter rod travels less and slower but has more power given the same motion and the same power used to make it.

I think torque is the wrong term here now that I think of the see-saw method, maybe just power and speed. I think it's safe to say that torque will not actually factor in here, so whatever little bit of extra length we're looking at translates to like 99.7% power.

[Mbirdsley]

I’m 6ft 4 I like shorter rods IE a 6ft6 rod for jerk baits, poppers, or anything you have to move the rod aggressively.  Just seems like it is easier to get the rod out of its own way when it is shorter.  7ft is kinda a do everything rod length.  I only have one longer at 7ft4 for punching into heavy stuff.  

[NOC 1]

17 hours ago, Boomstick said:

I think torque is the wrong term here now that I think of the see-saw method, maybe just power and speed. I think it's safe to say that torque will not actually factor in here, so whatever little bit of extra length we're looking at translates to like 99.7% power.

i think that the difference is mainly that for the same motion, the rod tip will travel further. That can be pretty useful if you are using stretchy line and you've got 40 or 50 yds. of it out there I guess. Yes the ratio is higher so it is is a little more effort, but like you say, not so much that anyone would notice without a a machine to measure it for you. Or maybe if you had an arthritic shoulder.

On 8/13/2020 at 10:49 AM, J Francho said:

Plus, it's fun to talk about when you're taking a break from writing SQL code while working from home in your basement, no where near any fish.

 

They are making me go in still, but I agree in principle. If I'm going to be figuring stuff, I'd rather be figuring fishing stuff.