Knots in braid while casting on light spinning gear

[snake95]

Hard to believe this hasn't been covered, but couldn't find it...

 

I have been fishing spinning gear of all sizes from the time I was a kid, and I rarely if ever have had a problem with spinning, have only read about others having issues.

 

I have fished 10, 15, and 20 lb braid on spinning with no issues that I can remember, for the past 5 years or so.

 

However, now apparently it is my turn.

 

Gear:

Daiwa BG spinning 1500 - new

Dobyns Champ XP 682 

 

10 lb braid - power pro and now Berkley X9 braid.

 

When I cast, I am getting insane knots developing suddenly in the line at various points along the length of my rod.  I could not have created worse knots if I tried!  It happened with my young son and I gave him heck for it.  Now I am sheepishly realizing it wasn't just him.

 

I am almost embarrassed to admit I am having problems casting spinning gear, but I would rather learn what is causing this that keep fighting it.

 

Could there be something different about the BG reel?  

 

Maybe it has to do with the light line?

 

I can't recall when I have used 10 lb and when I used 15 lb.  I just don't remember having this problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Choporoz]

6 minutes ago, snake95 said:

Hard to believe this hasn't been covered, but couldn't find it...

Search "wind knots" in quotation marks.

 

 

Are you using a leader?

[snake95]

52 minutes ago, Choporoz said:

Search "wind knots" in quotation marks.

 

 

Are you using a leader?

Yes always

[Choporoz]

I have found that I have to be extremely careful to cut the tags as close as possible with light lines.  It doesn't take much for that tiny bit of fluoro tag to catch a guide when casting and ruin your day.

[JustJames]

https://www.saltstrong.com/articles/fishing-wind-knots/
 

how bad were the knot?

[snake95]

@Choporoz hm good point.  I just looked and definitely left a tag.  That might have been it.

 

4 minutes ago, Bass_Fishing_Socal said:

how bad were the knot?

Terrible!

 

I will admit I thought wind knots were a myth that might just happen to other people and never paid attention to them.  
 

The problems seem to be due to line slowing down with connection knots in the guides.  

Thanks guys.

[plawren53202]

Couple of thoughts I had based on previous experience, which may or may not be applicable:

 

I have gotten knots forming when I overfilled a spinning spool with braid. Extra loops would slip off the spool when casting and then knot up as they passed through the guides.

 

I have had bad problems with the tag end of my leader/braid knot snagging line on the spool as it came off the spool during a cast, and knots forming in the loops. My fix for that has always been to make my leader short enough (just less than rod length) so that when in casting position the knot is always just in front of my reel spool but never actually on it. I recognize that this is a luxury of fishing generally dirtier water, though; people fishing crystal clear water often need a much longer leader.

[PhishLI]

What everyone else has said, and check your line roller. BG's use a bushing, which is fine, but if it's not spinning freely that'll add to the issue.

[The Bassman]

Solution:

 

1. Don't throttle your casts. Ease up. Won't cost you that much distance.

2. Close your bail manually. I do it in one motion with the index finger that held the line.

3. Keep that same index finger in light contact with the line when retrieving to maintain a little tension.

4. Look at your spool every now and then for stray loops. Cast beyond them to clear them.

 

I find that using a braid with some stiffness like Power Pro Super Slick V2 or Fins Windtamer helps as well.

[RoLo]

 

As much as I'd love to offer a solution, I have no experience with knotting braid on spinning gear.

You could say, I'm pretty much where you were, when you were puzzled by your boy's line issues.

That said, I'm probably next in line  

 

Roger

[5/0]

36 minutes ago, The Bassman said:

 

4. Look at your spool every now and then for stray loops. Cast beyond them to clear them.

Catching them before disaster strikes was a big one for me.

[JustJames]

1 hour ago, The Bassman said:

Solution:

 

1. Don't throttle your casts. Ease up. Won't cost you that much distance.

2. Close your bail manually. I do it in one motion with the index finger that held the line.

3. Keep that same index finger in light contact with the line when retrieving to maintain a little tension.

4. Look at your spool every now and then for stray loops. Cast beyond them to clear them.

 

I find that using a braid with some stiffness like Power Pro Super Slick V2 or Fins Windtamer helps as well.

This ^^^ but I wanna add some and minus some. It might not apply in OP case since he seems to be even more experienced than me.

#1 checked
#2 I always stop the line before lure hit water, for quieter entrance and to make sure I don’t have a lot of loose line at the end of cast. I make sure to lift the rod tip up before reeling to get more tension on the line. This will also help improve bite detection if bass decide to hit on the fall.
#3 cant do it.

#4 checked

#5 if I reel the lure back fast, I would let the lure hang 3-4’ to spin out twisted for a few seconds before next cast.

Again this might not be the same case as OP but this help me control wind knot at hand.

[jimmyjoe]

   Look down your braid in the sunlight. If it's twisted, you should be able to see that. Let out as much line as your longest cast while you're walking it off. Make sure there's grass around. Then pull you line through the grass with the rod tip way down, for about 300 to 400 feet. That should take the twist out.

   Now cast out fishing. Watch your line. Does it cast further?  Is there obvious twist? After a half hour to 45 minutes, you should be able to tell that the condition of the line is or is not greatly improved.

   If the line twist (and presence of wind knots) is improved, you simply need to figure out WHY the twist was there in the first place..  I would guess the line roller, or the spool needing a shim added or removed to center the line lay.

   BTW, you're not using in-line spinners, are you?

 

   If this does NOT improve your twisting, then I have no idea.   ?    jj

[gall]

Something that has helped me is after a cast I close the bail and pull out a little line. That little thing has seemed to help cut down on winding knots. I saw it on salt strong or some site.

[FishTank]

3 hours ago, snake95 said:

@Choporoz hm good point.  I just looked and definitely left a tag.  That might have been it.

 

Terrible!

 

I will admit I thought wind knots were a myth that might just happen to other people and never paid attention to them.  
 

The problems seem to be due to line slowing down with connection knots in the guides.  

Thanks guys.

How was the line put on and does it have mono backing?

 

If the braid was put on with the line on the ground label side up, especially the power pro, line twists will be inevitable.  

[snake95]

1 minute ago, FishTank said:

How was the line put on and does it have mono backing?

 

If the braid was put on with the line on the ground label side up, especially the power pro, line twists will be inevitable.  

Yes mono backing

 

used a spooling gadget 

 

line coming off bottom

 

pretty sure it is not line twist per se, but I am open minded about it.

 

Will do some experiments soon if I can to see if the checklists provided fix things. 

[Boulderman]

On 8/4/2020 at 4:35 PM, snake95 said:

Hard to believe this hasn't been covered, but couldn't find it...

 

I have been fishing spinning gear of all sizes from the time I was a kid, and I rarely if ever have had a problem with spinning, have only read about others having issues.

 

I have fished 10, 15, and 20 lb braid on spinning with no issues that I can remember, for the past 5 years or so.

 

However, now apparently it is my turn.

 

Gear:

Daiwa BG spinning 1500 - new

Dobyns Champ XP 682 

 

10 lb braid - power pro and now Berkley X9 braid.

 

When I cast, I am getting insane knots developing suddenly in the line at various points along the length of my rod.  I could not have created worse knots if I tried!  It happened with my young son and I gave him heck for it.  Now I am sheepishly realizing it wasn't just him.

 

I am almost embarrassed to admit I am having problems casting spinning gear, but I would rather learn what is causing this that keep fighting it.

 

Could there be something different about the BG reel?  

 

Maybe it has to do with the light line?

 

I can't recall when I have used 10 lb and when I used 15 lb.  I just don't remember having this problem.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I had the EXACT thing happen to me! Thought I was crazy. 

 

Mine also involved a small reel - a Pflueger Supreme 25x (which is probably similar in size to a 1000 or 1500 - it's small) with 10 lb power pro braid. On a 7 foot trout rod, I never had any issues. I threw lightweight spinners for trout using a leader.

 

One time for a backpacking trip, I put the reel on a cheap two piece 6 foot pflueger rod so I could pack it. When we got to the campsite, I assembled the rod and went fishing. Within a cast or two I experienced the same crazy knots you described! The knotted mass was so bad I had to cut and retie. It happened a few more times on hard casts right after releasing the line. I was so frustrated! The only way I could avoid it was to really ease up on the cast and not whip the rod.

 

Once I put the reel back on a different rod, I haven't had that problem again! Also, I've used that pflueger rod in the past with different reels and had no problems. The pflueger rod has a really big first guide, but the others I've successfully used the small reel with do not. The pflueger rod has worked great with larger-spooled reels

 

So, I chalk it up to a really bad rod/reel/lure weight/cast combination.

 

I think that strong casts, light lure, the small spool, and that large first guide somehow all interacted together to create the crazy knots. Could be a form of wind knot, but it wasn't windy and the knots weren't like the minor wind knots I've experienced before. I think it was just a bad combination. 

[ChrisD46]

*Line twist can occur with braid while spooling (although less than with other lines) . Try to use a line spooler where you can take off the spinning reel spool and spool the braid on . I believe Berkley makes such a line spooler .

[Tim Kelly]

19 hours ago, Boulderman said:

I had the EXACT thing happen to me! Thought I was crazy. 

 

Mine also involved a small reel - a Pflueger Supreme 25x (which is probably similar in size to a 1000 or 1500 - it's small) with 10 lb power pro braid. On a 7 foot trout rod, I never had any issues. I threw lightweight spinners for trout using a leader.

 

One time for a backpacking trip, I put the reel on a cheap two piece 6 foot pflueger rod so I could pack it. When we got to the campsite, I assembled the rod and went fishing. Within a cast or two I experienced the same crazy knots you described! The knotted mass was so bad I had to cut and retie. It happened a few more times on hard casts right after releasing the line. I was so frustrated! The only way I could avoid it was to really ease up on the cast and not whip the rod.

 

Once I put the reel back on a different rod, I haven't had that problem again! Also, I've used that pflueger rod in the past with different reels and had no problems. The pflueger rod has a really big first guide, but the others I've successfully used the small reel with do not. The pflueger rod has worked great with larger-spooled reels

 

So, I chalk it up to a really bad rod/reel/lure weight/cast combination.

 

I think that strong casts, light lure, the small spool, and that large first guide somehow all interacted together to create the crazy knots. Could be a form of wind knot, but it wasn't windy and the knots weren't like the minor wind knots I've experienced before. I think it was just a bad combination. 

I think this is the most likely scenario ^^ . A 1500 size reel is pretty small, 2500 to 4000 is a more usual size range for bass fishing.

[J Francho]

Where’s all the guys that say line twist isn’t a problem with braid?  It’s twist. Lots of preventative measures posted before me.  Troll it out, and reel it back in under tension to get rid of the twist. 

[JustJames]

I’m always here and always post. I haven’t had problem with windknot on my Sahara 750 for over a year and I’ve been using it pretty hard. 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

There’s nothing about braid that would keep it from twisting. It’s supple and twist manifests itself differently: wind knots. 

[LCG]

This is the first year that I have not experienced a wind knot with spinning gear. It's also my first year using a Shimano stradic FL with 20lb suffix spooled. Not sure if the line or reel or combination, possibly just luck, but I use to get them with 10lb braid and other brands of reels. 

 

I am guessing the spool design and maybe heavier lb test, thicker diameter, braid helps reduce wind knots. Not sure yet, but don't want to experiment when the system works so far. 

 

I also use a snap swivel for lures that are known to cause twist, I. e. an inline spinner. I also have always used a leader which I think helps reduce overall line twist. 

[Nibbles]

As others have mentioned it's likely a few things:

 

1. Small spool diameter relative to 1st guide diameter

2. Wind/line twist

3. Bombing the lure, especially if it is heavier like a 5" senko

 

Additionally I think the newer higher strand count braids are stronger and more sensitive but tend to be limper and are more prone to looping from wind and knotting

 

That guide diameter thing is an interesting call-out for sure.

 

When I compare my Major Craft Troutino PE special to my other L/UL spinning rods, its first guide has a much smaller inside diameter - it is roughly 1/4" which is quite small relative to my other rods which have 1/2"+ (sometimes 3/4" or more) diameter first guides.

 

And personally I've never once had line issues throwing 10# X8 braid on that PE special stick, but have on my BLX SG Light+ with the same reels (Ballistic FW LT 2000SS, Luvias FC LT 2000SXH)

 

The worst was with my 2000 size Luvias on the BLX stick with a 1/2"+ diameter first guide, and I had overfilled the spool a bit. Had to cut off and retie 4 or 5 times that day before problems subsided, and that was likely because I had cut off an additional ~25 yds of line by then.