Personal Firearms

[Sam]

I just read and posted to the "Trust Your Instincts" post in the General Bass Forum section and it got me thinking of what was presented to my American Legion post on the 16th of July.

 

I had a Chesterfield County, Virginia, police officer with many years of experience give a talk on gun safety and when and when not to use deadly force.

 

The guy had us under his spell from his first words until he was finished and taking questions. Even the ladies in the audience (wives, girl friends and sisters) had questions about carrying a weapon for self-defense.

 

We learned that if we pull a weapon on anyone we are the bad guys and can be charged with brandishing or threatening another person with a deadly weapon. He told us that we can't shoot anyone who is trying to break into our house, steal our property, or is vandalizing our property, or is threatening us unless we feel we or others are in definite physical bodily harm.

 

Now once the perp is in your home you can shoot him unless you have a way to escape via another exit. Even the "castle rule" may not be upheld by a judge and you are in deep trouble. https://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-law-basics/castle-doctrine-overview.html  

 

If you are legally carrying and someone just happens to see the gun, they can call the local law enforcement and tell them you are carrying and they saw the weapon and bingo! You are now charged with brandishing. You did not touch the gun; only the other individual saw it.

 

I know all of my Legion brothers have weapons and we know how to use them. Even the Navy guys have weapons and they say they know how to handle them. But the law is not on your side unless you reasonably believe you or others are in direct physical harm of bodily injury.

 

The final decision on this is with the local county/Parrish/state/federal prosecutor and the judge.

 

Best way to stay out of trouble when carrying is to avoid trouble.

 

Everyone be smart and safe.

 

 

[N Florida Mike]

It varies according to state. I know of a lot of situations here that involved someone breaking into a home and were shot while breaking in ( not just after they got in) Most if not all were not charged. I cant imagine a situation where If I had one of my guns and someone got in my house that I would run away out the back door and leave my family to fend for themselves. I would have go to jail I guess.

 

 A young lady I work with just had a gun brandished at her and her friends by her sisters boyfriend ( who is a minority) just because they didnt know who he was at first and called out asking who he was as he was walking up in the dark.He took offence saying they were racist for asking and pulled a gun- the cops did nothing.

 

 

[Sam]

Hey Mike, you and all in the house would have to be able to exit, not just you.

 

And your second example highlights what can easily happen with an unknown person, be it a friend, relative, business associate, or other. 

[Log Catcher]

I can't believe you can have someone arrested just because you saw a gun in their possession. Many states have open carry laws and here they passed a law that anyone legally able to buy a firearm can carry it concealed without any training or permit. I won't say what I think of that law. 

I recently went to a Cracker Barrel to pick up a to go order. An older gentleman walked by me and I noticed the handle of a revolver in his back pocket. I did not feel threatened or even think about calling the police on him.

[NHBull]

This largely depends on your state.  In NH, we do not need a permit for open or concealed carry.  We don’t need to use an exit for the “stand your ground” or “castle rule”. It also depends on if YOU feel your life Or well-being is threatened.  I have pulled twice, once in VT and the other N.H., and in both cases, dreamed justified by authorities meaning deadly force could have been used.  If these had happened in many other states, I may have been in jail.

[Russ E]

I agree with @NHBull. it depends on the state.

 

Kansas is a castle doctrine and stand your ground state.

you can also open or conceal carry with no permit.

 

If you are going to carry, it is a good idea to know your states laws.

here is a link that spells it out pretty clear. In Kansas.

https://ag.ks.gov/docs/documents/self-defense-statutes.pdf?sfvrsn=516a2f2b_4#:~:text=(a) A person who is,of the Kansas Statute Annotated

[gim]

Some states have carry reciprocity with other neighboring states. For example, if you have a permit in North Dakota, they accept that permit in South Dakota and vice verse. But just because it’s a neighboring state, don’t assume they have reciprocity. I know for a fact that Illinois won’t recognize any of their neighboring state’s carry permits. Be sure you check before you cross the state line with a handgun on your hip.

[clayton86]

1 hour ago, gimruis said:

Some states have carry reciprocity with other neighboring states. For example, if you have a permit in North Dakota, they accept that permit in South Dakota and vice verse. But just because it’s a neighboring state, don’t assume they have reciprocity. I know for a fact that Illinois won’t recognize any of their neighboring state’s carry permits. Be sure you check before you cross the state line with a handgun on your hip.

NY is the same I just got the last of my references today to apply for mine in my county since NY does carry permits by each county with them all being different. Once you have it per the county requirements your covered for the whole state. My county I had to get 4 references notarized that also live in the county and I’ve known for more than a year. Once I have the references I’ve gotta go pay to get my finger prints done and pay to have my pictures taken for said permit. Once all said and done it’s roughly $200 just to take the chance of them telling me no to carry a pistol. My county is one the fastest to give or deny them 4-8weeks average neighboring counties it’s 6-18months. 

[slonezp]

7 hours ago, clayton86 said:

NY is the same I just got the last of my references today to apply for mine in my county since NY does carry permits by each county with them all being different. Once you have it per the county requirements your covered for the whole state. My county I had to get 4 references notarized that also live in the county and I’ve known for more than a year. Once I have the references I’ve gotta go pay to get my finger prints done and pay to have my pictures taken for said permit. Once all said and done it’s roughly $200 just to take the chance of them telling me no to carry a pistol. My county is one the fastest to give or deny them 4-8weeks average neighboring counties it’s 6-18months. 

I got my CCW in IL exactly 90 days. My guess is they hadn't even done the background check, but put it thru because it says 90 days for the application process. The Governor stole $30 million from the fund which is used to pay for the checks and is being sued by the ISRA.

 

I can protect myself and my home because of the castle doctrine. In public, I cannot protect property, only human life. Brandishing a weapon is considered use of lethal force, but if someone accidentally sees the weapon I cannot be charged as long as I have my ccw card in my wallet. There is a huge list of places in IL where it is illegal to carry, most of them are in Crook County. 

[gim]

9 hours ago, clayton86 said:

My county is one the fastest to give or deny them 4-8weeks average neighboring counties it’s 6-18months. 

That's absolutely ridiculous to take so long.  They could deny you and then pocket the 200 bucks too.

[Sam]

15 hours ago, NHBull said:

This largely depends on your state.  In NH, we do not need a permit for open or concealed carry.  We don’t need to use an exit for the “stand your ground” or “castle rule”. It also depends on if YOU feel your life Or well-being is threatened.  I have pulled twice, once in VT and the other N.H., and in both cases, dreamed justified by authorities meaning deadly force could have been used.  If these had happened in many other states, I may have been in jail.

Right on, Bull.

The Chesterfield County police officer told us that every situation is different and it is easy to accuse anyone of anything.

 

Then it is a crap shoot as to which prosecutor and judge handles your case.

 

So what happened to you in Vermont is totally different than if it happened in Virginia or Maryland or DC or California, etc. Either way, if you are charged it can cost a lot of money to defend yourself.

[clayton86]

4 hours ago, gimruis said:

That's absolutely ridiculous to take so long.  They could deny you and then pocket the 200 bucks too.

Yup plus with this whole pandemic on top of it. I work in gun sales and when some one buys a pistol they pay off all but a dollar then take the sales receipt we print for them have it added to the permit and are given what’s called a coupon to bring back to us for paperwork. They bring back said coupon pay off that dollar and leave with the gun. However background check is only good for 30days and Monroe county pushes people right to that 30 day mark since everything is through the mail can’t go to county office and add it like before.