Baseball Pitching: Spin Rates Tracking and Training UPDATED

[Koz]

I know there are some baseball dads and coaches on BR so I thought I would post this. Way back in the day I was a college baseball pitcher and for a number of years I coached rec, travel, All Star, and middle school baseball. I gave it up this past year because I wanted my son to get away from me coaching him and drive his own destiny on the ball field. Plus, he's at a stage where he needs more advanced coaching. That being said this COVID-19 situation has ended competitive baseball for the time being so we've been working out lately.

 

Matt has been primarily a P/SS but routinely plays other positions including catcher so he's experienced at all of them. Long term he profiles as a P/1B/ maybe corner outfielder and not a middle infielder. But he loves to pitch and next year he's hoping to make varsity as a freshman.

 

A lot of baseball academies, all major league teams and most college teams use Rapsodo or something similar to analyze things like pitcher velocity, spin rates, spin axis, vertical movement, horizontal movement, etc. What's great about these systems is that a pitcher can make grip alterations, finger pressure alterations, arm slot changes, and frankly any pitching mechanic changes and see how it changes the shape of the pitch. Unfortunately our local indoor baseball academy does not have one and I'm not about to drop 3 grand on one.

 

But the last month I stumbled upon something called PitchLogic. It's a baseball with built in sensors that tracks most of the same information as Rapsodo and in side by side comparisons the data was close to identical to the Rapsodo numbers. Best of all it's "only" $250. Not cheap, but not three grand either.

 

Diamond Kinetics also has a baseball sensor called Pitchtracker but it has only basic information AND they charge you an annual fee to access the data. PitchLogic has no annual fees and you can export data for any time range and have it emailed to you in CSV format.

 

Anyway, the PitchLogic arrived and we got to use it for a brief 10 pitch session today before the thunderstorms rolled in. My first impressions are "WOW!" I mean when I was a kid we had to go to the library and pick up a book to see what a curveball grip looked like and then when we tried it out on the field we relied on our catcher to try and tell us what the ball was doing.  Then if you changed your grip or arm angle or mechanics you had to rely on the observations of your catcher or coach to see if they noticed anything different with the pitch.

 

Now, you throw a pitch and you have a face full of data staring at you and you can quantify the results of any changes.Today Matt only threw four seam fastballs and he wasn't really loose as we raced the oncoming storm. He hadn't thrown in a month and his lower half mechanics were sloppy, but what was pretty neat is on the last two pitches I reminded him of what his lower half should be doing and he gained 3 mph.

 

Since I have no idea what his spin rates were before we're putting together baseline data now. What will really be interesting is tomorrow when he starts throwing his curve and changeup. We'll develop some baseline numbers and then experiment with some changes. One nice thing about the app is not only can you chart and track pitch types but you can also up to 5 track variations of those pitch types. This way you can easily compare the results.

 

Anyway, so far this looks to be a great tool. Once I collect more data I'll post some screen shots. My first impression is that this is a great tool and worth the investment.

[jbsoonerfan]

That sounds really awesome. Unfortunately for me my son could care less about baseball, which is actually perfectly fine since he is a great student and more into science and how things work than anything else. That being said, my daughters are softball players and my oldest is 11 and she is a really good pitcher. The bad thing about that is, I have no clue what the basic mechanics are for pitching a softball. I have watched videos online, listened to coaches talk about pitching, etc. and I just don't get it. It is hard to help her when I myself don't understand the way you pitch a softball. About all I have understood or can tell her is to push off and finish every pitch. We send her to pitching lessons which is really about all I can do for her when it comes to pitching. I told my wife that I don't feel comfortable trying to tell her to do this, or don't do that, when I myself have no idea how to pitch a softball. 

 

Sounds like your son has a couple things going for him. First and foremost is a supportive father. I think taking a seat back from coaching and watching is sometimes the best choice a parent can make. I would love to do that for my girls, unfortunately they wouldn't be "coached" as well as I feel they need to be. Sometimes the car rides home from tough losses are hard, but hopefully they know that I am doing it because I love them and want the best for them. Second thing, it really sounds like your son works hard and is taking the right steps to be successful. In today's world, it seems as though kids have to decide at a young age that if they truly want to be good at something, they better put in the time and effort it takes.

 

Good luck to your son, I hope he makes the varsity team. Most importantly, I hope his health and strength are there throughout his time as an athlete and he stays injury free.

[Koz]

8 hours ago, jbsoonerfan said:

 The bad thing about that is, I have no clue what the basic mechanics are for pitching a softball. I have watched videos online, listened to coaches talk about pitching, etc. and I just don't get it.

That softball pitching delivery is funky. I remember in my Senior year of HS (we went on to be State Champions) the softball team had an All American HS pitcher. Our coach challenged every one of us to try and hit off of her. We watched her warm up and after that not one single player dared to try and hit against her.

 

Quote

I think taking a seat back from coaching and watching is sometimes the best choice a parent can make. I would love to do that for my girls, unfortunately they wouldn't be "coached" as well as I feel they need to be.

I've been there. My son played for a really bad coach in the 12U summer season. In kid ball I'm not concerned whether my team or the team my son is playing on wins games. All I care about is the coaching and preparing kids for the next level. I remember during one game my son ranged up the middle from SS and because his momentum carried him to the OF he made a spin move to throw out the runner. It's a play we practice. In the middle of the game the coach tells him not to do a spin move. My son said nothing. But when the inning ended he pulled the coach aside and politely told him why the spin throw was the right move in that situation.

 

It is hard for me to step away from coaching him, but we have our workout sessions together. But many times I work with him for 20 minutes and then walk away and let him process the info and make corrections. We also use video and we talk a lot about how things should feel when he swings or pitches.

 

Learning the feel was big because now he'll swing or throw and I'll go to say something and more often than not he says. "I know. I know." I'll as him, "What?" and he'll tell me what happened and what the adjustment is.

 

As far as pitching (or even hitting) mechanics go I will tell you that when instructing I never focus on the big picture or the results during the training session. The focus is always on one specific component of the delivery or swing. When I am instructing Matt always throws or hits into a nearby net because I do not want him focused on where the ball goes, only the drill we are working on. So we might be working on how he breaks his hands when pitching or drives his back knee while hitting. That is the only thing that matters and his goal is to ingrain the proper motion in his mind and body so he can feel the proper move.

 

What I have told him over the years is that we are going to work on small, specific mechanics of hitting, pitching, and fielding and he may not get it or see results right away. But then one day as he matures and his mind and muscles are more in sync every little move will start to come together and he will have a WOW moment. 

 

One other thing I learned in one one one coaching with him is to use video. I can tell him all day long that he's tucking his heel on leg left and all day long he can insist that he isn't. Instead of bickering about it I ask him to watch the video and make the needed corrections.

 

Anyway, good luck with your daughter. One more thing I will tell you is that coaching my son completely changed when he turned 12 and became more self aware and more independent. Once we incorporated video into the training and I learned to walk away at times it saved arguments when his teenage emotions wanted to push back just for the sake of his asserting his independence. You may not experience that, but I did and it took a while for ME to learn my lesson.

 

 

 

[N Florida Mike]

Interesting. I played through college, then 16 + years of softball. I never had a good pitching coach when I played baseball,but they did teach me the basic mechanics. I was never taught to think . Since I had a good fastball and curve, I did well anyway .. 3 out of 4 pitches I just rared back and threw as hard as I could. A regret of mine is not seeking out a pitching coach other than what was provided at the time.   This tool your referring to sounds amazing. Hopefully your son will continue to work hard and enjoy the fruit of his labors.

My middle son was a home run hitter but quit when he was starting 10 th grade. He would have made a great DH someday, because he wasnt fast and didnt have a great arm, but he hit some long HRS as a 9th grader. ( on the senior field ) I remember being dissapointed when he quit, I was living vicariously though him!     

 

[Tennessee Boy]

Very interesting stuff.   Technology is changing sports like it’s changing everything else.  I wonder how long it will be before computers are calling balls and strikes.  

[12poundbass]

18 minutes ago, Tennessee Boy said:

Very interesting stuff.   Technology is changing sports like it’s changing everything else.  I wonder how long it will be before computers are calling balls and strikes.  

That technology is already available and if I remember correctly is being tested in some minor league parks. 

[Koz]

We've been using PitchLogic throwing into a net in our driveway but the problem with that is the net is only 30 feet away and that's not far enough for breaking pitches to take effect. We can see spin rates but the ball needs to travel further so the sensors can pick up how much the ball actually breaks.

 

So today we went to a local baseball academy and it was HOT in there. Even with the doors open and fans blowing we were dripping with sweat within minutes. But we still decided to give it a go. After warming up and a few drills we brought out the PitchLogic and worked on breaking balls. It was touch and go because the heat made my 14 year old cranky and gave him a reason to make excuses. But we soldiered on. If you take a look at the picture below you can see the results of two pitches. The one on the left is a curveball while the one on the right was supposed to be a curveball but ended up being a slider.

 

So, what are you looking at here. The yellow arrow is the arm slot and the blue arrow is the direction the ball is breaking. Next is velocity. Both his curve and slider are a bit slower than expected based upon his 75-80 mph fastball. His curve should probably be more in the 58-60 mph range and his slider should be in the 64 mph range. Without getting into to much theory on spin rates (efficient spin vs. more spin) his spin rate is a little low when looking at his Bauer Units (spin rate / velocity).  This is probably because breaking balls are still relatively new to him. In the past he threw the occasional curveball but it was not something we practiced because of his age and learning fastball/changeup was more important. But he's at that age where it's time to start practicing breaking balls.

 

Further on down you can see the vertical and horizontal movement. Matt's is an "over the top" pitcher and arm angle is consistently around 1 o'clock so his curve ball will be more 12 to 6 than sweeping. For the pitch on the left his curve broke only 4 inches but dropped 6 inches. For his inadvertent slider it broke horizontally 8 inches.

 

One thing we learned by looking at all of the data is that when he shortened his stride he had better movement on his breaking pitches. You can also see he has a fair amount of rifle spin (football spin) which shows his fingers are coming around the ball instead of over the top of the ball. Making that adjustment will further decrease the backspin (duh) and increase his side spin. There are some drills he will perform to work on that. Once he has that dialed in we will gather more data and possibly work on finger pressure.

 

Anyway, if you're a coach or an involved baseball dad and your player wants to be a pitcher I'd say that so far this seems to be a great tool. If you are just concerned about velocity then skip this and buy a Pocket Radar. But if you want to get into shaping pitches and get into where a pitcher should throw certain pitches (a completely different discussion) then this is a great tool. WARNING: It is important that you understand what spin rates and spin efficiency are all about and don't simply try to increase spin rates. There's a whole science behind it and I myself am still learning. Driveline Baseball and Rapsodo have some great information on this.