Frogging and flipping

[Miken216]

So I just purchased the brand new st croix legend extreme 2020 7’4hf action and a zillion tws hd 7.3 for this rod I was going to use it for flipping/pitching/punching and frogging and what I’m curious do you guys believe this will be a good starter rod I’m just getting into flipping/pitching but I also want a good frog rod 

[scbassin]

I can't help you with the 1st. part question as I don't use St. Croix rods.  For a frog rod I use a Dobyns Champion XP DC 736C FH. It's a 6 power rod & will get them out of the cover.

[r83srock]

I use the mojo bass version of the same power and action for the techniques described and it worlds great for me. Loads up nice on the hook set, I can cast a 3/8 jig no problem, or flip a 1.25 oz punch rig. I use it for frogging Matt’s mostly, and it’s the right tool for the job for that.

[frogflogger]

That's nice equipment and will do what you want. Although for frogging I like a soft tip.

[FishTank]

Sounds like it would be perfect.  

[papajoe222]

I have a Mojo Bass in hvy/fast. It was the first heavy power rod I ever purchased and I found it to be too heavy for everything but punching.  I basically use it for throwing lighter bucktails for musky.  I went back to using the same rod in M/H fast for pitching jigs. If you're used to heavy powered rods, you'll probably like it.  I know you're gonna like that Zillion.

[Miken216]

21 hours ago, papajoe222 said:

I have a Mojo Bass in hvy/fast. It was the first heavy power rod I ever purchased and I found it to be too heavy for everything but punching.  I basically use it for throwing lighter bucktails for musky.  I went back to using the same rod in M/H fast for pitching jigs. If you're used to heavy powered rods, you'll probably like it.  I know you're gonna like that Zillion.

I was thinking since st croix upgraded this rod and made it have a softer tip it may be excellent for it I got the legend Xtreme 2020 and what’s your take on using it frogging

[r83srock]

So all I know is, St. Croix has in fact softened many of there rod models as of late, some very noticeably. The 7’1” mh mojo feels entirely different (much softer than the first gen 7’ mh). My 7’4” h mojo is a lot softer than the previous gen 7’ h as well. Both of those models from 2 different generations of the same series are labeled “slop n frog”, and feel entirely different. My 7’4 throws frogs great. Your rod with throw frogs perfect, and because it’s such a high end blank, it will also double as a perfect jig rod for almost any jig you will throw. It will punch, throw decent swimbaits, big Spinnerbaits, big worms. Go use the thing! Tie everything on in your box, and give us a solid review while you are at it, we wanna know what YOU think.

[RichF]

That's quite the "starter" outfit.  It will undoubtedly work perfect for both frogging and flipping.

[Miken216]

10 hours ago, RichF said:

That's quite the "starter" outfit.  It will undoubtedly work perfect for both frogging and flipping.

Thank you It should finally be here tomorrow I can’t wait to take it out and really put it to work

Just now, Miken216 said:

Thank you It should finally be here tomorrow I can’t wait to take it out and really put it to work

 

Just now, Miken216 said:

Thank you It should finally be here tomorrow I can’t wait to take it out and really put it to work

 

10 hours ago, RichF said:

That's quite the "starter" outfit.  It will undoubtedly work perfect for both frogging and flipping.

What Lb braid I was thinking 65lb suffix 832 camo colored 

[Hammer 4]

Suffix is good line, good choice..

[RichF]

10 hours ago, Miken216 said:

Thank you It should finally be here tomorrow I can’t wait to take it out and really put it to work

 

 

What Lb braid I was thinking 65lb suffix 832 camo colored 

832 is very popular.  I've never tried it myself but my dad likes it.  Personally, I would go with 50lb, unless you're fishing insane cover and for some jumbo bass.

[Jason.Domingo]

Thats a hell of a starter frogging/flipping setup lol

[Heartland]

On 7/11/2020 at 4:32 PM, frogflogger said:

That's nice equipment and will do what you want. Although for frogging I like a soft tip.

Why you prefer the soft tip, what does it provide over a faster tip?

 

[frogflogger]

2 hours ago, Heartland said:

Why you prefer the soft tip, what does it provide over a faster tip?

 

Lets them eat it better - I frog fished 250 - 300 days a year for three years a decade ago - Lost or missed too many fish with the xf hvy rods. Like a rod with lots of power but give in the tip. Have an old Daiwa LT frog rod that is almost parabolic and was a good frogger.  I go back to sofla most winters and the game hasn't changed and I think many pros go for the softer tip. Also casts better.

[Heartland]

8 hours ago, frogflogger said:

Lets them eat it better - I frog fished 250 - 300 days a year for three years a decade ago - Lost or missed too many fish with the xf hvy rods. Like a rod with lots of power but give in the tip. Have an old Daiwa LT frog rod that is almost parabolic and was a good frogger.  I go back to sofla most winters and the game hasn't changed and I think many pros go for the softer tip. Also casts better.

That's cool, your choices in rods and style of fishing are much different that mine.  I don't generally cast frogs, I pitch them to cover, and holes, probably less that 20 yards 90% of the time but I can sling one 40 yards like blinking an eye.  

So what I don't like about a soft tip and frogs.   It sucks to work the bait with the tip loading up every time you twitch the tip to make the frog walk, it feels soft and sloppy and makes me feel like I have to work much harder to impart the action I want on the bait.

Hooksets, I do not understand why a soft tip if you are using braid, the purpose of braid is low stretch, it gives you fast strong hooksets and you counter act that with a soft tip flexing, remember we are trying to drive 2 large hooks into the fish and a soft tip just does not make sense.

 

Again we fish very differently,  I respects your opinions and thoughts. 

 

[frogflogger]

9 hours ago, Heartland said:

That's cool, your choices in rods and style of fishing are much different that mine.  I don't generally cast frogs, I pitch them to cover, and holes, probably less that 20 yards 90% of the time but I can sling one 40 yards like blinking an eye.  

So what I don't like about a soft tip and frogs.   It sucks to work the bait with the tip loading up every time you twitch the tip to make the frog walk, it feels soft and sloppy and makes me feel like I have to work much harder to impart the action I want on the bait.

Hooksets, I do not understand why a soft tip if you are using braid, the purpose of braid is low stretch, it gives you fast strong hooksets and you counter act that with a soft tip flexing, remember we are trying to drive 2 large hooks into the fish and a soft tip just does not make sense.

 

Again we fish very differently,  I respects your opinions and thoughts. 

 

After losing two possible dd's in one afternoon with my xf I knew I needed a change - perhaps soft is the wrong description but a tip with flex (for me) makes casting and working a frog easier and as for hooksets no problem as the frog is usually inside the mouth. Braid with an xf rod can take a lure away from a fish (for me) or rip it out. Most of my frog fishing is long casts to cover as much water as possible and also to give the fish longer to target the lure. I now routinely fish open water and have fish come from as deep as 20' (since leaving sofla). All this said I can walk a frog but usually don't - finding a chug chug usually more effective. But I use several retrieve variations until I find one that works for the time and place. Frog fishing is my favorite to the point I have stuck with it when I may have done better doing something else.

I showed many clients my technique and many of them caught their pb and caught the fever.

I could go on and on here as I'm a bit of a fanatic on frogs but whatever works for an angler is what he should use

[RichF]

Im also a fan of the soft tip for froggin. I have an old Kistler Magnesium (circa 2012) that is absolutely perfect for frogs. Like, I may have to try and get Trey to fix it up when it craps out on me because I won't find another rod as good for the technique. It's a heavy fast action but has the soft tip.  Makes it super accurate.  I also have a differing view in that I actually think the soft tip makes walking the frog way easier.  

[the reel ess]

I don't have any St Croix rods. But it will probably suffice for both. I used to use the same rod for both with good success. If you feel like it's not ideal for one of the techniques, there are lots of rods out there specifically for whichever area it's lacking in.

 

I just looked up that rod. Jeepers Cripes! I'd be afraid to use a rod that expensive for either of these techniques unless it came with a no-hassle money back guarantee and next-day shipping on the replacement if I broke it. That kind of sensitivity is nice for jigs, but unnecessary for frogs. But I understand the desire for nice stuff.

[Heartland]

1 hour ago, RichF said:

 I also have a differing view in that I actually think the soft tip makes walking the frog way easier.  

I would like to hear more about your view.

[RichF]

1 hour ago, Heartland said:

I would like to hear more about your view.

I find that the soft tip allows me to walk the frog "in place" much better than a super stiff one.  I've used broomstick type rods for froggin and just found it much harder to do.  I could walk the frog ok but trying to do so in place didn't work so well.  The stiffness tended to pull the frog too far forward so I wasn't able to keep the frog in the exact same spot like I wanted.

[Heartland]

8 hours ago, RichF said:

I find that the soft tip allows me to walk the frog "in place" much better than a super stiff one.  I've used broomstick type rods for froggin and just found it much harder to do.  I could walk the frog ok but trying to do so in place didn't work so well.  The stiffness tended to pull the frog too far forward so I wasn't able to keep the frog in the exact same spot like I wanted.

You do realize that there is middle ground between a soft tip and a broom stick,  I use the Falcon Cara Jason Christie Frog rod, 6'11" heavy fast, has about the same action as the Falcon Amistad if you are familiar with the Falcon line.  I have no problem dancing kermit in place.  Get great hooksets without all the tip flex, which is one of my top priorities, easy to walk or chug without having to have the tip loadup before you impart any action on the bait.   Just don't care for the soft mushy rods for any bait that I am imparting the action on or driving large single hooks into a fish, just seems counter intuitive to me.

[RichF]

1 hour ago, Heartland said:

You do realize that there is middle ground between a soft tip and a broom stick,  I use the Falcon Cara Jason Christie Frog rod, 6'11" heavy fast, has about the same action as the Falcon Amistad if you are familiar with the Falcon line.  I have no problem dancing kermit in place.  Get great hooksets without all the tip flex, which is one of my top priorities, easy to walk or chug without having to have the tip loadup before you impart any action on the bait.   Just don't care for the soft mushy rods for any bait that I am imparting the action on or driving large single hooks into a fish, just seems counter intuitive to me.

I have a Bucoo SR (7'H) which is incredibly soft.  I imagine the upper echelon Falcons have better actions (the heavies might actually feel like heavies). And yes, I do realize there is middle ground, I'm just giving an example from my experience.  I like the soft tip. It works incredibly well for me.  Been using my Kistler for 8 years and I've yet to find a better rod for frogs.  Yes, it's my opinion but frogging is my #2 technique.  I catch a lot, don't lose many, and have won quite a bit doing it.  There aren't any right or wrong answers here, just sharing what works for me. 

[Heartland]

35 minutes ago, RichF said:

I have a Bucoo SR (7'H) which is incredibly soft.  I imagine the upper echelon Falcons have better actions (the heavies might actually feel like heavies). And yes, I do realize there is middle ground, I'm just giving an example from my experience.  I like the soft tip. It works incredibly well for me.  Been using my Kistler for 8 years and I've yet to find a better rod for frogs.  Yes, it's my opinion but frogging is my #2 technique.  I catch a lot, don't lose many, and have won quite a bit doing it.  There aren't any right or wrong answers here, just sharing what works for me. 

I agree, no rights or wrongs just differing opinions.