Broken rod tip affect on specs?

[BooshBass]

Hey all, to those of you who know something about the physics behind rod construction, I have a Lew's Custom Speed Stick Spinnerbait rod, 6'10", Med-Hvy, Fast Action, that I broke the tip off of and put on a replacement tip eyelet.  Now, the rod is a little bit over 6'7".  My main question is how does breaking the tip off a rod affect the power and action of a rod? 

 

Secondary question:  I am asking because, while I've been a moderately serious fly-fisherman for trout/steelhead/salmon for many years, and really a more casual suburban pond bass fisherman, I have the bass fishing bug and am trying to work my way up to a 3-5 setup system and am in the market for a new setup.  My only two setups currently are:

 

- Lew's rod described above (6'7.154837", Med-Hvy?, Fast Action?) with a Lew''s Tournament MB 7.5:1 baitcaster

- Old Galyan's 6' IM6 rod (not even sure the specs, they wore off) with an old Shimano 2500 Sahara

 

I live in Chicago and use the Galyan's/Shimano setup for moving soft plastics (speed shads, darters) along the wall at the harbors for smallmouth, the short rod works well for this.  I also use the Galyan's rod for scummy suburban pond fishing with weedless soft plastics (ribbontails, finesse worms).  I use the Lew's setup for pretty much everything else (poppers, buzzbaits, spinnerbaits, lipless crankbaits, jigs, maybe try some worms, really anything I'm still trying to figure out what I'm doing).

 

I'm thinking about buying a new spinning setup and a new casting setup.  Do you think it makes sense to designate the broken Lew's for topwater, keep doing what I'm doing with the Galyan's rod along the harbor wall.... now this is where I'm stuck.  What do you think will make my setup better rounded?  I'm thinking a 7' medium power, extra-fast spinning rod for plastics in the ponds (ribbontails, trick worms, tubes) which I do a lot during the summer, a 7' medium or med-hvy, fast action baitcasting setup for hard plastics (rat-l-traps, red eye shads, squarebills) for the rivers around my area (Fox River, Kankakee River in Northern Illinois) and smallmouth in the harbors in spring/fall, 7' heavy, fast baitcaster for frogs in ponds.

 

I'm 5'10" and an amateur, so rods over 7' feel a little unweildy to me, but I'd probably look at something that was 7'2".

 

Any help from anyone with more experience than me would be much appreciated!  I've been having a good time catching a few bass this summer and would like to keep it going, but I think my gear is severely lacking and, as a result, less fish.  Thanks!

[Choporoz]

4 hours ago, BooshBass said:

Hey all, to those of you who know something about the physics behind rod construction, I have a Lew's Custom Speed Stick Spinnerbait rod, 6'10", Med-Hvy, Fast Action, that I broke the tip off of and put on a replacement tip eyelet.  Now, the rod is a little bit over 6'7".  My main question is how does breaking the tip off a rod affect the power and action of a rod? 

I know little of rod construction and I got a D in physics,  but I do know from experience that, yes,  the action will be affected.   The power, less so.  I have a 6'10.5" MHF that used to be 7.  It is still a great rod for frogs and toads.  The bright side is that it was great excuse to get a nicer 7MHF for bottom contact and spinnerbaits. 

[NOC 1]

I think that what you have now is something like a 6'7" MH Mod. Should still be decent for short range crank baits and jigs? 

[Hower08]

You have basically given yourself an extra fast action rod 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Trimming a blank from either end slows the action. Remember action is not tip stiffness, only a location in the blank. It won’t increase the power as the butt and mid section are not affected. It will greatly raise the casting weight range on the low end. What you’re left with is a pool cue or close.  You might get away with light cover flipping or live bait fishing the bottom with heavy weights. You’ll have to try different things as no one can be certain sight unseen. 

[WRB]

Length in millionths...you are over thinking this!

Tom

[BooshBass]

23 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Trimming a blank from either end slows the action. Remember action is not tip stiffness, only a location in the blank. It won’t increase the power as the butt and mid section are not affected. It will greatly raise the casting weight range on the low end. What you’re left with is a pool cue or close.  You might get away with light cover flipping or live bait fishing the bottom with heavy weights. You’ll have to try different things as no one can be certain sight unseen. 

 

Some people online say throw it away, some people say that's ridiculous and you can find a use for it catching bass.  The broken tip eats at me big time for sure and I d**n near threw it in the garbage.  I also just went out and bought a Lew's Mach 2 casting combo 7', Med-Hvy, Fast, and a Lew's Speed Stick spinning combo 7', Med, Fast, and I'm happy with my purchases - I think they'll cover a lot of water for now.

 

That said, as you say, the action gets slowed.  With that in mind, I bought an appropriate tip guide and plan to try the broken rod on some top waters and crankbaits and see how it goes.  What do you anticipate my problems doing that will be so I can be aware while using it?

 

[Team9nine]

If it's a nice clean break, and you still have some decent spacing near the tip to allow a new one to be put on, then do it. Have tossed several broken rods over the years due to very bad breaks/shatters, but still have one that was a 6'10" rod that had a very clean tip snap and was saved (minus 2.5 inches). A little stiffer than original, but still works great with certain baits. Just used it this past week again to land a few dozen fish.

[RoLo]

 

The ideal length & action of a fishing rod depends entirely on application, there are no magic numbers

The odds are even that you'll be happy with your new rod  ?

 

Roger

 

[mrpao]

Also. Your height has nothing to do with rod length.

Rod length should be based on what you are using the rod for and storage area.

Longer rods usually mean longer cast, but also harder to store and move around.

I have a smaller boat so I prefer rods around 7' or maybe just a bit longer like 7'2" due to lack of room. So I don't break rod tips or smack my fishing partner in the head.

Fishing from shore, I prefer only around 6'6" long so I don't get tangled in all the trees and brush.

[Heartland]

11 minutes ago, mrpao said:

Also. Your height has nothing to do with rod length.

Rod length should be based on what you are using the rod for and storage area.

Longer rods usually mean longer cast, but also harder to store and move around.

I have a smaller boat so I prefer rods around 7' or maybe just a bit longer like 7'2" due to lack of room. So I don't break rod tips or smack my fishing partner in the head.

Fishing from shore, I prefer only around 6'6" long so I don't get tangled in all the trees and brush.

Maybe I took this the wrong way but I feel that personal height has a large part in making certain rod selections. For instance I am about 6ft tall, and I rarely use any rod that will be used in a tip down application that is over 7ft.  I prefer 6'10 but they are not always available.  I do this to keep the rod tip from slapping the bow or the water while working the bait.   Is this a matter of personal preference, yes, but heavily based on technique and application.  

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

4 hours ago, BooshBass said:

 

Some people online say throw it away, some people say that's ridiculous and you can find a use for it catching bass.  The broken tip eats at me big time for sure and I d**n near threw it in the garbage.  I also just went out and bought a Lew's Mach 2 casting combo 7', Med-Hvy, Fast, and a Lew's Speed Stick spinning combo 7', Med, Fast, and I'm happy with my purchases - I think they'll cover a lot of water for now.

 

That said, as you say, the action gets slowed.  With that in mind, I bought an appropriate tip guide and plan to try the broken rod on some top waters and crankbaits and see how it goes.  What do you anticipate my problems doing that will be so I can be aware while using it?

 

My comments are generalizations, for what a tip guide costs by all means give it a try and experiment. You’re not going to hurt anything just a matter of how it feels to you. If there’s enough tip left it might cast some baits well enough, they’ll just be heavier ones. 

[BooshBass]

On 7/3/2020 at 9:16 AM, NOC 1 said:

I think that what you have now is something like a 6'7" MH Mod. Should still be decent for short range crank baits and jigs? 

 

On 7/4/2020 at 11:48 AM, RoLo said:

 

The ideal length & action of a fishing rod depends entirely on application, there are no magic numbers

The odds are even that you'll be happy with your new rod  ?

 

Roger

 

 

This is what I was thinking, as well as possible some top waters like a popper.  Like I said, I've been fishing at the Chicago harbors a lot lately and extremely long costs are generally not necessary or even possible.  Maybe I can tap into some smallmouth this fall or next spring on some slightly more aggressive lures than I can in the summer doldrums like rat-l-traps, red eye shads, or shallow crankbaits.  I also think fishing a rat-l-trap vertically near some of the structure at the harbor might be good.

 

On 7/4/2020 at 11:30 AM, Team9nine said:

If it's a nice clean break, and you still have some decent spacing near the tip to allow a new one to be put on, then do it. Have tossed several broken rods over the years due to very bad breaks/shatters, but still have one that was a 6'10" rod that had a very clean tip snap and was saved (minus 2.5 inches). A little stiffer than original, but still works great with certain baits. Just used it this past week again to land a few dozen fish.

 

The break was right above the next guide, so I clipped it right below the guide and it's clean.  Maybe a 1/2 off from where the second guide would be, but there's a good 3-4 inches of rod until you hit the next guide.

 

 

On 7/4/2020 at 1:11 PM, Heartland said:

Maybe I took this the wrong way but I feel that personal height has a large part in making certain rod selections. For instance I am about 6ft tall, and I rarely use any rod that will be used in a tip down application that is over 7ft.  I prefer 6'10 but they are not always available.  I do this to keep the rod tip from slapping the bow or the water while working the bait.   Is this a matter of personal preference, yes, but heavily based on technique and application.  

 

Similar to why I still use the old 6' Galyan's rod for small swim baits along the harbor wall.  Anything longer and I'm constantly scraping the tip on the concrete, dock, railings, etc.

 

[MickD]

The effect of 3 inches off the tip is not insignificant.  It most likely will not feel as good as it did before.  But there likely is  a place for it in your arsenal.  The big thing is not what we say; it is what you say after trying it.  If you kept the broken piece it can be repaired to be almost as good as new, exc for its looks.  Will react a little slower due to the weight, but I've repaired a number of rods whose owners thought they worked well after repair.  https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/repair-oquinn.html

[J Francho]

A broken tip usually slows down the action and increases tip power.  It also has an infuriating effect on me.

[BooshBass]

5 hours ago, J Francho said:

A broken tip usually slows down the action and increases tip power.  It also has an infuriating effect on me.

Add in that I, a self proclaimed dummy, just received my nice new tip guide, with the wrong ring size, as I had to order it at night instead of just waiting until morning to call Lew's and ask about the size. 

[BooshBass]

5 hours ago, MickD said:

The effect of 3 inches off the tip is not insignificant.  It most likely will not feel as good as it did before.  But there likely is  a place for it in your arsenal.  The big thing is not what we say; it is what you say after trying it.  If you kept the broken piece it can be repaired to be almost as good as new, exc for its looks.  Will react a little slower due to the weight, but I've repaired a number of rods whose owners thought they worked well after repair.  https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/repair-oquinn.html

I stupidly lost the piece despite making it a point to keep it.  Any idea what a typical tip ring size for a Lew's casting rod would be?   I've pinned down the size 7 tube, but the ring I don't know.  I was thinking 4.5 as the 7 I bought is about two times too big.  Lew's service didn't respond to my email, though I figure give them a little leeway with the pandemic I suppose.  I'll probably call them tomorrow.

[MickD]

4.5 is probably about right.  It's not critical.  Smaller the better for low mass, until knots won't pass freely.

 

The rings are measured at the outer diameter, so a 4.5 will have a 4.5 OD.  Measure the guides a and try to stay close to that.  Because the measurements are made at the OD, the ID's will vary with bran/material/etc.  But not by much.

 

[BooshBass]

Hey fishers, I figured I'd provide an update on this now that summer is ending and I got a lot of fishing in since I started this topic.  Maybe it will help someone in the future.

 

I've had a chance to fish with my broken/repaired rod quite a bit and it really worked out.  The action is definitely slower and feels like a medium.  It doesn't cast as long as my 7' rods as expected, but as hoped it is a terrific crankbait and hard plastic jerkbait rod now.  I paired it with a Diawa Fuego CT 6.3:1 and had a chance to go on a trip to Lake Clitherall in Minnesota last week.  There I caught probably 30 largemouth, maybe more, it was almost too easy.  The broken rod was stellar with squarebills and several different types of Rapala (floating, suspending, countdown, husky jerk, rippin' rap).  I caught many fish banging them off the rocks and jerking them over ledges on a couple of nice long points on Clitherall.  I caught some pretty decent sized largemouth and there is a nice bend on the rod that feels good while fighting the fish.  It also feels good fishing a Rat-L-Trap and Shad Rap vertically at the harbors, as well as topwater poppers, though I haven't caught any fish doing that yet.

 

So here are my non-fly rod setups I think I've settled on for now:

 

- Lew's Carbon Fire 7' Heavy, Fast and Lew's Tournament MB 7.5:1 - Frogs, throwing weighted spoons at the harbor for salmon/steelhead

- Lew's Mach 2 Baitcaster Combo 7' Med-Hvy, Fast 7.5:1 - Bigger/weighted soft plastics, bigger jigs with trailers, bigger/weighted swimbaits

- Lew's Custom Speed Stick 6'8" Med-Hvy, Med and Daiwa Fuego CT 6.3:1 - Crankbaits, hard plastic jerkbaits

- Galyan's Performance Series IM7 6'6" Med-Hvy, Fast and Shimano Sahara 2500FB - Smaller/unweighted swimbaits, soft plastic jerkbaits, and small jigs, all along the harbor walls

- Lew's Speed Spin Spinning Combo 7' Med, Fast 6.2:1 - Smaller/unweighted soft plastics/swimbaits, smaller jigs, roostertails/other smaller spinners, lighter jerkbaits/Rapalas

- UglyStik GX2 9' Med, Fast and the Lew's Speed Spin Reel from the combo - launching bait under a float for salmon/steelhead at the harbors, probably catfish at some point

- Zebco Rhyno 6' and Quantum Energy E2-1 - Probably catfish or something

- BPS Ultra Lite 4'6" and Pfleuger Trion GX - Panfish/trout, roostertails/other spinners, bobber fishing with a minnow

- A couple of old Eagle Claw Med/Light 6'-6'6" rods with old Shimano AX1000/2000 reels - backups/lending/probably my wife at some point, maybe some light applications sometime just because they're there

 

Super happy with my newly created non-fly fishing setup.  I spent a bunch of money this summer but also caught way, way more fish than I used to while fishing solely with the Galyan's rod.  Having all the different rods for particular purposes and not having to change my lure every time I want to try something else really makes a world of difference in catching more fish.  Now I can just upgrade 1 rod/reel at a time from my current budget oriented setups whenever I feel it's time.....