Beginners tackle - not the ned rig!

[JediAmoeba]

So I have been fishing with a guy this year and helping him learn.  It wasn't until recently I figured out he is basically just starting out.  

 

He wants to catch fish and he wants to use a baitcaster...  He likes fishing jerkbaits, albeit wrong as he doesn't jerk them, he slowly reels them in sort of twitching it and wonders why I catch more than 5 to 1 over him.  

 

Anyway, the other day we were out on bigger water and I hooked him up with a Ned rig.  I explained how to use it and he would make a couple casts and then go back to his baitcaster, trying moving baits.  He can't cast very far.  As in, maybe 30 feet with a crank.  But he keeps chucking it out, backlashing and having all sorts of trouble.  Part of it may be my problem as I do everything I can to not use a spinning rod.  I was throwing large swimbaits and stuff looking for the big bite but I begrudgingly picked up my Tatula Lt spinning rod with a ned, fire it out and within a few minutes exclaim, "I got one"...reel down and set the hook.  I caught a small fish but used it so I could show him it is very effective.  I went back to chucking my Deps 250.

 

Later, on the ride home, he asked me how I knew I had a fish on and that's when it dawned on me...Neds are terrible for teaching someone bite detection and when you have a fish.  Sure, that small bait with a small exposed hook makes hookup rates climb...but it isn't a feel bait and it doesn't teach you anything about a fish biting.  I knew I had a fish because I saw my line moving - something that is just second nature to me.  Something that for new fishermen, especially with 10# mono is not second nature.   He's only caught 2 bass this year and both came on a jerkbait when he was hung up on weeds and was trying to rip it through.  

 

So now I realize I have to go back to the drawing board on an effective way for him to catch bass and have fun.  He currently has 2 rods - a 6'6" mh casting rod and a 6'6" m spinning rod.  I just spooled up his casting rod with new line(40# braid) because he backlashed beyond repair.  He wants to frog fish but really doesn't have the gear - we are fishing wednesday and I want to put him on some fish but want him to have fun too.  I wish I had a MH spinning rod for him to fish but I think I may just give him one of my M spinning rods to pair with his other spinning rod and throw a Carolina rig on it and a wacky rig on the other.  I don't know, what are yinz thoughts?  I would rather have him on the fish than me.

[A-Jay]

If you really want to teach him, you are going to need to not fish much and be a mentor.

Trying to do both may slow down the learning curve quit a bit.

It should pay off later down the line

 

Rig your M spinning rod with a Texas rigged weightless stick bait,

go shallow and let him catch fish.

So many 'teaching moments' there for you.

From casting /accuracy, strike detection, hooksets,  as well as playing and landing the fish.

You can even show him how to safely hold/handle the fish as well as hook removal and a safe/effective release.

Good Luck.

A-Jay

 

[JediAmoeba]

16 minutes ago, A-Jay said:

If you really want to teach him, you are going to need to not fish much and be a mentor.

Trying to do both may slow down the learning curve quit a bit.

I should pay off later down the line

 

Rig your M spinning rod with a Texas rigged weightless stick bait,

go shallow and let him catch fish.

So many 'teaching moments' there for you.

From casting /accuracy, strike detection, hooksets,  as well as playing and landing the fish.

You can even show him how to safely hold/handle the fish as well as hook removal and a safe/effective release.

Good Luck.

A-Jay

 

We have done the handling and release- everyone I I fish with I explain the importance of having hook removal tools.  To me those are just as important as having line on your reel!  

 

You are probably right and after wednesday I will definitely take a back seat in regards to fishing.  Wednesday is going to cost me 30 bucks.  Lol. 

[plawren53202]

You can cover a lot of ground with a MH casting and M spinning combo. That's all I have (and a ML spinning for smaller fish). They might not be ideal for all situations but you can make it work. E.g., I know H with 65# braid is a better setup for throwing a frog, but I've absolutely caught plenty of fish on my MH casting rod using 25# braid. 

 

I think the bigger issue is what presentations are going to work best for essentially teaching a brand newcomer how to fish. When I have family or friends that want to "start fishing" and want to fish for bass, I always start them with some kind of worm, usually like A Jay said a weightless T rigged stickbait. You said you want him to learn feel and don't want him to have to watch the line, but to me that seems like an essential part of learning to fish. I catch as many or more fish from watching the line as I do feeling a bite, so I would want someone who is learning to fish to learn line watching as they also learn "bite feeling." I like starting people on braid w/a leader because braid can be easier to see laying on the water.

 

To me, a Ned rig also doesn't seem like the worst thing in the world to start someone new on. I think I get more bites on a Ned rig than a lot of other baits, in part because it is small enough for dinks or even bluegills to hit. I think it is important for a newcomer to feel or see as many hits as possible, whether they're big bass, small bass or even other species. To me the biggest downfall for a newcomer to use a Ned rig is that Ned rigs can tend to hang up more unless you're fishing open bottom. 

 

Having said all of that, I definitely would get him off of the jerkbait. That seems like a really bad option for a newcomer to learn on. T rigged Senkos, and maybe something like a spinnerbait, chatterbait or swim jig that is fairly weedless/snagproof and uses more of a constant retrieve. However, in my experience a weightless worm is going to get more bites than any of those.

 

Good luck with your efforts!

[Fishin' Fool]

Drop shotting catches alot of fish for me you could use your medium action spinning rod for that. So many different things to drop shot roboworms, shad shaped worms, Poor Boys Erie Darters, cross tail shad. It's an easy way to catch fish especially in the north on the clear water lakes.

[Cgolf]

Honestly I would go back to the basics which for me is a tube of 5" single tail grub on a slider head. Could be a texas rigged tube and a 5" grub on a jighead as well. Both baits can be fished multiple ways, and are great for bite detection as well. Having just had to rely on one to get bites on vaca, a spinnerbait is a great beginner bait, they either slam it or ignore it. Other than that a rage menace in place of the 5" grub has been pretty fool proof for me.

 

Jerkbaits have been a learning curve for me, and I cracked it this past week, but all using the reel to impart the jerk pause action. It worked great last week so will stick with it for a while, surely wouldn't wish the learning curve on my worst enemy though;).

[Black Hawk Basser]

I was thinking a 4" tube on a EWG hook, weighted enough so he has a decent amount of feel and less slack line to deal with.  There's really no wrong way to fish a tube.

[WRB]

Bomber long A, 9/16 oz, 4 1/2" silver flash orange will catch bass without jerking. Bomber 7A crank bait in baby bass or Shad is a good crankbait. Long A runs 5', 7A about 10'.

Tom

[galyonj]

3 hours ago, plawren53202 said:

You said you want him to learn feel and don't want him to have to watch the line, but to me that seems like an essential part of learning to fish.

I agree.

 

In addition, if he's absolutely insistent on using a baitcaster, I feel like it behooves OP's friend to switch to something easier to work (in terms of lures) than a jerkbait while he's learning.

[Derek1]

He should be able to fish a weightless t rigged stick worm on casting gear. 

[WRB]

If you are catching bass using soft plastics give your partner the same tackle and set up.

Instruct him how to use it and let him learn.

It's boring to fish the bottom if your not catching bass. Casting is a lot more entertaining  then dragging a weight on the bottom. My advice only fish bottom contact lures when the bass are biting.

Tom

[BrianMDTX]

I would say a 5” weightless Senko wacky rig. But I use spinning gear for that. If he is insistent on using a baitcaster, a weightless 5” Senko TR is a great teacher. Enough weight to cast accurately without risking backlashes, generates strikes and easy to fish. 
 

Why is he so insistent on using a BC? Does he feel that’s what “real” bass anglers use? Because I’m willing to bet that the majority of bass anglers have never used a baitcaster, or very infrequently. 

[BrianMDTX]

13 minutes ago, WRB said:

If you are catching bass using soft plastics give your partner the same tackle and set up.

Instruct him how to use it and let him learn.

It's boring to fish the bottom if your not catching bass. Casting is a lot more entertaining  then dragging a weight on the bottom. My advice only fish bottom contact lures when the bass are biting.

Tom

I was talking to a fishing buddy about this today. Man, I am NO expert, but I bet in the past two months I have caught bass out of my local pond that most have no clue are there. Why? That’s easy. 
 

They bomb lures as far as they can cast without any true reason for doing so, other than they can. Most use crankbaits and reel them in fast and cast again, and again, and again, to the same spots. Once again, with no plan of attack. 15-30 minutes later, with no fish, and they’re done. I’ve only witnessed one angler catch several bass. Out of a yak, tossing a small floating Rapala and methodically casting to heavy cover. Almost all were dinks, but he caught 7-8 bass. 
 

Most anglers want to cast and reel, cast and reel, cast and reel...because they get bored fast. Fishing a TR on the bottom can be boring...until your bait gets hammered. The truth is, most who fish are looking for a big bass right off the bat. They really aren’t interested in learning how to fish. They just want to catch them. I see the same in deer hunting. Walk in, climb in a stand, and after 45 minutes they want to move as “this stand sucks”. Too bad 15 minutes later a beauty of a 135-class ten point just slipped past that stand at 18 yards. 
 

Face it- you can’t teach patience. 

[Cdn Angler]

I've taken beginners out and always rig them with small swimbaits, keitechs below 4, on exposed or screw lock weedless. They can chuck and wind on lighter braid that casts far even with a mediocre cast. 

 

The bait is moving so helps hooksets and I think people instinctively understand that a fish would bite a smaller fish swimming around as opposed to a jerkbait or worm, which are less obvious.

 

Also harder to get hung up as no treble, but also not something you drag on bottom and get hung up. 

[plawren53202]

1 hour ago, BrianMDTX said:

I was talking to a fishing buddy about this today. Man, I am NO expert, but I bet in the past two months I have caught bass out of my local pond that most have no clue are there. Why? That’s easy. 
 

They bomb lures as far as they can cast without any true reason for doing so, other than they can. Most use crankbaits and reel them in fast and cast again, and again, and again, to the same spots. Once again, with no plan of attack. 15-30 minutes later, with no fish, and they’re done. I’ve only witnessed one angler catch several bass. Out of a yak, tossing a small floating Rapala and methodically casting to heavy cover. Almost all were dinks, but he caught 7-8 bass. 
 

Most anglers want to cast and reel, cast and reel, cast and reel...because they get bored fast. Fishing a TR on the bottom can be boring...until your bait gets hammered. The truth is, most who fish are looking for a big bass right off the bat. They really aren’t interested in learning how to fish. They just want to catch them. I see the same in deer hunting. Walk in, climb in a stand, and after 45 minutes they want to move as “this stand sucks”. Too bad 15 minutes later a beauty of a 135-class ten point just slipped past that stand at 18 yards. 
 

Face it- you can’t teach patience. 

Really point on observations. I have been watching something similar as so many new Covid anglers descend on the public waters I bank fish. Except in my neck of the woods they all use spinnerbaits. I think it's the dollar box at WM. In any case I had wondered why they all tend to do this, when you only have to spend 30 minutes on YouTube to figure out that a wacky rig or T rigged worm is by far a better beginner bait. I hadn't thought about your observation that people just feel like they need to cast bombs and reel back, but I think this nails it.

 

My 17 year old son wasn't real interested in fishing for many years but this year I've gotten him to start going with me a lot more. Yesterday evening we were at a highly pressured conservation area in our area. He was fishing a T rigged trick worm and a wacky rigged 4" Yum Dinger. It was super hot, tough fishing, but we grinded it out and he caught three (on a night when others around the pond weren't catching anything). I jokingly apologized to him for dragging him out on a sweltering night when the fishing wasn't great, but I'm really glad I did. They were hitting super subtle last night, and the fishing required a lot of patience and careful attention (like watching the line more so than feeling bites), so in his catching 3 I realized he is really advancing as a fisherman. 

[Glaucus]

Senko and Fluke 

[Bluebasser86]

A swimming grub or 3.8 Fat Impact are both easy to fish and consistent fish catchers. A spinnerbait is easy to fish also.

[Columbia Craw]

I would go with a stupid tube, swimming grub and a wacky rigged stick bait.   If the cover dictates a T-rig stick bait then make the transition.  Tell him the best place to start is at the beginning and this will help him become successful as he gains more experience.  Let us know how it goes !!!

[WRB]

Taught a lot kids how to bass fish and several adults. Kids just want to catch fish so use high percentage presentations with minimal skill sets. Kids can cast spinning tackle easily and the split shot/slip shot rig is ideally suited for beginners where you know bass are located.

Adults want to use what your use and If the op is using a jerk bait then use asimilar lure with high % success with little skill. The Bomders I suggested fit that scenario. Lots of other choices depending on what the front seater is doing. The slip shot rig using 3/8 mojo weight and 6" to 7 1/2" worm works good with a bait casting outfit for example.

Tom 

[Cgolf]

9 hours ago, plawren53202 said:

Really point on observations. I have been watching something similar as so many new Covid anglers descend on the public waters I bank fish. Except in my neck of the woods they all use spinnerbaits. I think it's the dollar box at WM. In any case I had wondered why they all tend to do this, when you only have to spend 30 minutes on YouTube to figure out that a wacky rig or T rigged worm is by far a better beginner bait. I hadn't thought about your observation that people just feel like they need to cast bombs and reel back, but I think this nails it.

 

My 17 year old son wasn't real interested in fishing for many years but this year I've gotten him to start going with me a lot more. Yesterday evening we were at a highly pressured conservation area in our area. He was fishing a T rigged trick worm and a wacky rigged 4" Yum Dinger. It was super hot, tough fishing, but we grinded it out and he caught three (on a night when others around the pond weren't catching anything). I jokingly apologized to him for dragging him out on a sweltering night when the fishing wasn't great, but I'm really glad I did. They were hitting super subtle last night, and the fishing required a lot of patience and careful attention (like watching the line more so than feeling bites), so in his catching 3 I realized he is really advancing as a fisherman. 

I would disagree on the wacky rigged worm. I have had a couple of deep hookings, not bad enough to injure fish thankfully, that I refuse to fish them. I wouldn't want that rig in the hands of a beginner as they will kill too many fish.

 

Texas rigged plastics and spinnerbaits I like. The problem with spinnerbaits is they are a hero of zero bait where I think the T rigged plastic gets bit more often.

[BrianMDTX]

1 hour ago, cgolf said:

I would disagree on the wacky rigged worm. I have had a couple of deep hookings, not bad enough to injure fish thankfully, that I refuse to fish them. I wouldn't want that rig in the hands of a beginner as they will kill too many fish.

 

Texas rigged plastics and spinnerbaits I like. The problem with spinnerbaits is they are a hero of zero bait where I think the T rigged plastic gets bit more often.

So far (knock on wood), I’ve only gut-hooked one bass with a WR. That was with a #1 circle hook. I’ve since switched solely to a 1/0 octopus hook and have not had a problem. 
 

But...I tend to cast a weightless Senko WR no more than 20’-30’ (mostly closer than that), so I do not have a large amount of slack line to reel in. If you’re bombing a Senko WR a long way and a bass takes it in as soon as it sinks, by the time you reel in all that slack I’m sure it increases the chance of gut-hooking regardless of hook type. 

[Cgolf]

5 minutes ago, BrianMDTX said:

So far (knock on wood), I’ve only gut-hooked one bass with a WR. That was with a #1 circle hook. I’ve since switched solely to a 1/0 octopus hook and have not had a problem. 
 

But...I tend to cast a weightless Senko WR no more than 20’-30’ (mostly closer than that), so I do not have a large amount of slack line to reel in. If you’re bombing a Senko WR a long way and a bass takes it in as soon as it sinks, by the time you reel in all that slack I’m sure it increases the chance of gut-hooking regardless of hook type. 

I was fishing for smallies, and it was weird because it wasn't on slack line. It could be just how the smallies attacked the bait it put the hook in a bad position? Maybe I will give it a go again fishing for green bass sometime and see if I have different results.

[BrianMDTX]

1 hour ago, cgolf said:

I was fishing for smallies, and it was weird because it wasn't on slack line. It could be just how the smallies attacked the bait it put the hook in a bad position? Maybe I will give it a go again fishing for green bass sometime and see if I have different results.

What size and type hook are you using?

 

I don’t know if smallies take a WR differently as there none where I fish. If they aren’t taking it on the drop, when are they hitting on it?

[Cgolf]

55 minutes ago, BrianMDTX said:

What size and type hook are you using?

 

I don’t know if smallies take a WR differently as there none where I fish. If they aren’t taking it on the drop, when are they hitting on it?

In this instance it was on a 1/16 ounce fireball jighead fishing on a river. So I had a lot going against me with the current where the fish were hitting the bait. Might be different on flat water too.

[BlakeMolone]

Keitech style swimbaits, smaller ones on the spinning road with a ball head jig or even Ned head for the tiny ones, bigger ones on the bait caster. If the water is dirty swim jigs with a swim bait trailer or soinnerbaits. Soft swimbaits are just so good and catching fish and so easy to use