Tape Arbors? Really?

[slowworm]

So,

 

I've been looking at mudhole, and contemplating falling into abyss of rod building.  Watching their how to videos, I see that they use tape arbors to support the reel seat.  As an engineer my first thought was "Tape?  Really?"

 

I also saw polyurethane and graphite arbors also, which seems like a much better idea.

 

Real world experience would be appreciated before I step over the edge... 

 

J.

[crypt]

I have used both and they both work just fine. will use tape on spinning rods more than casting handles.

[spoonplugger1]

For the commercial builders where they have a hundred uses for tape, and buy it by the truckload, it makes sense to  certain extent. It is designed to be a temporary use product, not what I put on my rods, they are built to last. I use the arbors you mentioned, or epoxy impregnated drywall mesh tape, they will never fail if installed right.

[slowworm]

Thanks.  I'll use an arbor then.

[MickD]

Arbors are the best, light, and strong enough.  But tape does work fine.  It most likely is tougher than the foam shims when wrapped tightly onto the blank.  The only issue is that it might be damaged by water, BUT, this is reliably solved by totally encapsulating the tape shims with epoxy as you mount the seat.  Then no water can get to it.  Will last forever.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Tape is a fine arbor IF done right. It has no structural purpose, it just keeps the seat concentric on the blank. Just make sure the gaps are filled with epoxy and the tape is encapsulated. I use tape for thin arbors and graphite or sheet rock tape for thicker ones. 

[S Hovanec]

^ what he said.  Tape, when done right, will work fine.  But, why risk it when a poly arbor is $1.00.  I'm just finishing up the box of 100 I bought a few years ago 

[Angry John]

Manufacturers use fitted pieces because it's faster cheaper and easier.  For a custom rod a dollar is nothing so I want arbors.  Does tape work, obviously it does.  Is there a better way I believe in right tool for the job always.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

The only problem with arbors is they ream VERY easily and you can get them non concentric which defeats the purpose. 

[slowworm]

1 minute ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

The only problem with arbors is they ream VERY easily and you can get them non concentric which defeats the purpose. 

Even the graphite arbors that Mudhole has?

 

 

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

Ya they’re all similar. Just go slow and easy and they’re fine. Something else you can do is leave some arbor sticking out the front and use it at a base for an epoxy ramp. Depends on blank diameter. 

[slowworm]

Thanks for the advice.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

S Hovanec you’ll get a kick out of this. I did a seat and handle replacement in a St Croix LTB and the stock seat was a large fitted seat mounted on a blank scrap then glued to the blank with a thin arbor. Getting all that off was a good time. 

[Westcoast]

When I learned to build rods I was shown to use tape arbors and have used nothing but since. I have the gamut of rods from 12wt fly rods for tarpon, 3wts for trout, gear rods for 30# plus chinook and teener steelhead, and lots of bass rods, never have I had a tape arbor fail.  

[S Hovanec]

9 hours ago, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

S Hovanec you’ll get a kick out of this. I did a seat and handle replacement in a St Croix LTB and the stock seat was a large fitted seat mounted on a blank scrap then glued to the blank with a thin arbor. Getting all that off was a good time. 

I did a LE last year like that.  They used a piece of blank as the seat insert.  No arbor on it though, just epoxy.

[MickD]

On 6/25/2020 at 8:48 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

Something else you can do is leave some arbor sticking out the front and use it at a base for an epoxy ramp. Depends on blank diameter. 

You are the only one besides myself that I have heard of who does this.  Works great, weighs almost nothing, can be painted any color, look really sharp with wrap epoxy on them, never had a problem other than the fact that they are fragile until finished.  You can also make that ramp a separate piece.  Right on about slow and easy as they do "machine" (sandpaper) very easily and fast.  Easy to go too far.

[slowworm]

You know, this is why I love this forum.  I ask a question, and there is an outpouring of information from experienced hobbyists and professionals. All freely given, with scarcely the expectation of a thank you.

 

With all the insanity today, it's places like this that keep my faith in humanity going.

 

Thank you. 

[bish0p]

If the space between the blank and reel seat is small, less than 1/8 inch, I'll use D size thread instead of drywall tape. Spiral wrap the thread tightly the length of the blank where the seat will be mounted. Apply epoxy and install the reel seat.

[.ghoti.]

On 6/25/2020 at 7:40 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

The only problem with arbors is they ream VERY easily and you can get them non concentric which defeats the purpose. 

Here’s a solution to that problem. The arbors i use have a 1/4” hole. A1/4” drill bit goes right through them. Bore them out in increments. Start with a 9/32” bit. Run it all the way through. Run the next size up in 1/32” increments. Here’s the trick.  Do not use a drill. Twist the bits through by hand, always starting at the same end. With a little practice, you can get them out to about 1/16” wall thickness. Any more than that, I skip the arbor, and use drywall tape.

[S Hovanec]

I glue my arbors in the seat. Once cured, I chuck the seat in my lathe and bore to the required diameter.  Very little reaming required.

[spoonplugger1]

Step drill bits keep the hole centered as you go and you just drill from both sides, minor finish with reamer, done.

[.ghoti.]

18 hours ago, S Hovanec said:

I glue my arbors in the seat. Once cured, I chuck the seat in my lathe and bore to the required diameter.  Very little reaming required.

That is what I do as well. Thought I would post a viable alternative for the new builder who likely does not have a lathe.

[Tim Kelly]

I don't imagine those graphite arbors have any structural strength at all. They might be marginally lighter than masking tape, but probably less strong. I've used masking tape on nearly every rod I've built and never had a seat go lose, except one of those stupid SK2 seats, which I would never fit on a rod again as they have no strength, are uncomfortable and are generally a daft design. 

[S Hovanec]

1 hour ago, Tim Kelly said:

 except one of those stupid SK2 seats, which I would never fit on a rod again as they have no strength, are uncomfortable and are generally a daft design. 

I absolutely hate SK seats.  The couple I did use, I made an acrylic insert, which did make it more comfortable.

[Terry O'Brien]

I've used masking tape for decades now and never had a problem. Roughing up the inside of your reel seat with a coarse rasp, rough the blank a bit as well with paper add lots of epoxy when you assemble works great. Ive had opportunities when Woodstream [Fenwick] was here in town to check out some of their reel seat failures. They used the tape method but used a cheapo epoxy glue and then to speed things up they heated it which started to turn their epoxy kind of foamy and it lost its ability to keep from spinning on the blank