Second Build

[Bass Junke]

I hope everyone is doing well. Get Bit is having a pretty nice Father's Day sale. I just got the green light from the boss. So I was thinking about a shorter pitching rod. I think I need a little help, tell me how this sounds. 

Rainshadow Revelation REVC68H-SB 

REC RSG natural- 2-8's, 2-7's, and 4-6's

Don't use a REC tip top, I read that a few times. Recommendations?

I would love an exposed reel seat. Is this wise for a second build? How do I pick the size?

Grips- Nothing fancy cork split grips SG155A, SG300A 

Thanks in advance guys.

[Delaware Valley Tackle]

3 hours ago, Bass Junke said:

I hope everyone is doing well. Get Bit is having a pretty nice Father's Day sale. I just got the green light from the boss. So I was thinking about a shorter pitching rod. I think I need a little help, tell me how this sounds. 

Rainshadow Revelation REVC68H-SB 

REC RSG natural- 2-8's, 2-7's, and 4-6's

Don't use a REC tip top, I read that a few times. Recommendations?

I would love an exposed reel seat. Is this wise for a second build? How do I pick the size?

Grips- Nothing fancy cork split grips SG155A, SG300A 

Thanks in advance guys.

For guides, do a Fuji k double foot 10, k5.5 belly guide to your recoil runners size 5 and an alconite tip top 5.5. Measure blank diameter where the seat will go. If between sizes round down .5mm the dealer will size the seat for you if you request con ordering. Just have to know how long of a handle you want. 

[spoonplugger1]

Mine and others testing of pitching sticks show the smaller the guides used the further you can pitch, even going down a half size from 3.5 to 3.0 mm made a huge difference, didn't reduce normal casting one bit.

[Bass Junke]

On 6/19/2020 at 7:30 PM, Delaware Valley Tackle said:

For guides, do a Fuji k double foot 10, k5.5 belly guide to your recoil runners size 5 and an alconite tip top 5.5. Measure blank diameter where the seat will go. If between sizes round down .5mm the dealer will size the seat for you if you request con ordering. Just have to know how long of a handle you want. 

Thanks. First Get Bit is not having a sale, sometimes we see what we want to see, oh well. I had it my head to build a rod so it is going to happen. Guess I scrapped the REC guides idea. I bought 2- #5 double foot kgides, 2 #4.5, and 5 #4 single foot belly guides. 

 

I really want to understand all this so I am going to wait till I get the bank, figure out where my handles will sit, and then measure for a reel seat and trim rings. Can't wait. 

On 6/19/2020 at 9:23 PM, spoonplugger1 said:

Mine and others testing of pitching sticks show the smaller the guides used the further you can pitch, even going down a half size from 3.5 to 3.0 mm made a huge difference, didn't reduce normal casting one bit.

Thank you. I took your advise on small guides. I did not see k guides smaller than 4 however. Should be fine. 

[MickD]

10 hours ago, Bass Junke said:

Thanks. First Get Bit is not having a sale, sometimes we see what we want to see, oh well. I had it my head to build a rod so it is going to happen. Guess I scrapped the REC guides idea. I bought 2- #5 double foot kgides, 2 #4.5, and 5 #4 single foot belly guides. 

 

I really want to understand all this so I am going to wait till I get the bank, figure out where my handles will sit, and then measure for a reel seat and trim rings. Can't wait. 

Thank you. I took your advise on small guides. I did not see k guides smaller than 4 however. Should be fine. 

4's are pretty darned small, no need for smaller.  Especially on a pitching rod.  The reason for small is to get sensitivity  and maybe longer casts, but neither is an issue on a pitching rod.  I would go bigger to get free clearance of anything that might foul the guides.

[Munkin]

I am running double foot 10, 6, and then size 5 runners on my casting rods.  Anything smaller than a 4 guide just seems to small for me.

 

Allen 

[spoonplugger1]

Alps, Forecast, CRB, Pac Bay, American tackle make smaller guides. CRB down to 1mm with no ceramic ring, Forecast to 2 mm with a ceramic ring. Been using the 2 mm Forecast for close to 10 years, my favorite is the 3 mm Alps guides, superior frame materials and durability. A 2 mm weighs one fourth that of a 4 mm, a 3 mm, half the weight of a four, the 2 mm less than half of the 3 mm.

These guides have been around in use all over the world for decades. I've been using 4 mm guides on my rods since the 70's, Gary Loomis used them on his steelhead spinning rods, all the G Loomis STR1141S carried them until Shimano bought the company, now they have a much heavier, less sensitive guide set on that rod.

50 lb. mono  goes through a 3 mm easily with lots of room to spare.

 

[Bass Junke]

Thanks guys. 

15 hours ago, MickD said:

4's are pretty darned small, no need for smaller.  Especially on a pitching rod.  The reason for small is to get sensitivity  and maybe longer casts, but neither is an issue on a pitching rod.  I would go bigger to get free clearance of anything that might foul the guides.

Thanks Mick. Already pulled the trigger on the order so we are going with what we got. Very excited to do this again. 

 

Question for all. Mick, a few months ago someone posted about a first rod build and was commenting on how hard it was to wrap small guides. I had some trouble for sure. The tiny pieces of masking tape were not working so I ended up grabbing the epoxy that was 80% dried up. Basically dry brushed a tiny bit of epoxy on the foot. It seemed to be just enough to secure it but I was able to move them for final adjustment.

 

You mentioned some interesting options I might try. I was wondering has anyone tried rubber cement? Seems like it might have the right properties to work. The other thing I was thinking of trying was a glue stick. General craft glue is usually based on wood glue that needs pours to adhere to. So I don't think it would hold for long. 

[.ghoti.]

I’ve found this to be the best way to hold guides for wrapping, and for easy movement during static testing

 

https://www.mudhole.com//Guide-Tubing

 

Get all four sizes. Cut into rings with a razor blade. You might want a ring 1/4” long, or more, for a large spinning guide, down to a ring 1/16” for a micro guide. Get your thread wrap about half way done, and touch the tubing ring with a blade to cut it off.

[Bass Junke]

1 hour ago, .ghoti. said:

I’ve found this to be the best way to hold guides for wrapping, and for easy movement during static testing

 

https://www.mudhole.com//Guide-Tubing

 

Get all four sizes. Cut into rings with a razor blade. You might want a ring 1/4” long, or more, for a large spinning guide, down to a ring 1/16” for a micro guide. Get your thread wrap about half way done, and touch the tubing ring with a blade to cut it off.

Very cool. Kinda like Mick's o ring technique. Probably way easier to cut off though. Come to think of it, I have a roll of very small diameter tubing. Thin walled, very stretchy, that might work. Thanks, I have some options to try.

[MickD]

18 hours ago, spoonplugger1 said:

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Bass Junke said:

Thanks guys. 

Thanks Mick. Already pulled the trigger on the order so we are going with what we got. Very excited to do this again. 

 

Question for all. Mick, a few months ago someone posted about a first rod build and was commenting on how hard it was to wrap small guides. I had some trouble for sure. The tiny pieces of masking tape were not working so I ended up grabbing the epoxy that was 80% dried up. Basically dry brushed a tiny bit of epoxy on the foot. It seemed to be just enough to secure it but I was able to move them for final adjustment.

 

You mentioned some interesting options I might try. I was wondering has anyone tried rubber cement? Seems like it might have the right properties to work. The other thing I was thinking of trying was a glue stick. General craft glue is usually based on wood glue that needs pours to adhere to. So I don't think it would hold for long. 

I've been frustrated by how to handle and fasten micros to the blank for stress testing and ultimately for wrapping.  Here's where I am.  Not my original idea, but use the stretchable thread available at sewing shops, use about a 10 inch length of it, and put it around the blank about where your guide will go and do a square knot tight to the blank.  Pull on the tags to make a little clearance to the blank.  Using fly tying hackle clamps to pick up the micro by the ring, slide the foot of the guide under the clearance you've created.  Now the guide foot is somewhat restrained.  Now clip off the tags to about 1/2 inch.  Do this for all the micros in the approx position they will be in.  Now, using a two line stress test (see AnglersResource.com), do the final location of the guides.  You have to be careful so as to not lose a guide.  I keep the  line through the guides at this time to make sure if one falls off, it is captured on the line.  This is the line that will be through the rings and will not have much tension on it with the two line method.  The other line tied to the tiptop will stress the rod.  Since the line through the guides is not taking the stress test load, they can be easily moved along the blank to their proper positions.  And they are retained for wrapping.  Not a piece of cake, but better than anything else I've found for putting the micros onto the blank, holding them adequately, moving them under the stress test, and ultimately wrapping them.  Let me know if this is not clear.

 

Bottom line is that if you think the two line method is too complicated, you are not appreciating its advantage in allowing the guides to be moved without unloading the blank.  When you understand its advantage, and use it, you will find it much easier than the one line method.   

[Jrob78]

I've always used dental rubber bands to hold micro guides. I buy them in 1/4" and 1/8" and just cut them off once I have the guide secured. You can buy them by the 100 on ebay for a few dollars.

[Bass Junke]

Thanks Mick. Good stuff. I believe I understand what you are talking about. I think everything would be clearer if I was able to locate that stress test. I went to Anglersresource.net. This is a Fugi sponsored site? I read the static load tutorial, which I believe is basically what you are talking about. Learned a lot. Made me realize the importance of guide placement. The difference between a true custom rod and just following a blueprint. Actually Mick, the more I read what you wrote, what I just read is the test. 

[MickD]

1 hour ago, Bass Junke said:

Thanks Mick. Good stuff. I believe I understand what you are talking about. I think everything would be clearer if I was able to locate that stress test. I went to Anglersresource.net. This is a Fugi sponsored site? I read the static load tutorial, which I believe is basically what you are talking about. Learned a lot. Made me realize the importance of guide placement. The difference between a true custom rod and just following a blueprint. Actually Mick, the more I read what you wrote, what I just read is the test. 

The test at Anglersresource.net is the method I'm advocating.  I've tried the dental bands, which should work well, but they didn't for me.  I think I may have not gotten the right sizes.  But it doesn't seem like an 1/8 band will hold a micro on a tip that's way less than 1/8 in diameter.  Will try again.  Dental bands would have the advantage of not having the tag ends of the stretch thread get in the way of wrapping, which sometimes happens.

[Jrob78]

22 hours ago, MickD said:

The test at Anglersresource.net is the method I'm advocating.  I've tried the dental bands, which should work well, but they didn't for me.  I think I may have not gotten the right sizes.  But it doesn't seem like an 1/8 band will hold a micro on a tip that's way less than 1/8 in diameter.  Will try again.  Dental bands would have the advantage of not having the tag ends of the stretch thread get in the way of wrapping, which sometimes happens.

As you get closer to the tip you have to double wrap an 1/8" band, essentially making one band wrap around the blank twice to make it tighter, if that makes sense.

[Bass Junke]

22 hours ago, MickD said:

The test at Anglersresource.net is the method I'm advocating.  I've tried the dental bands, which should work well, but they didn't for me.  I think I may have not gotten the right sizes.  But it doesn't seem like an 1/8 band will hold a micro on a tip that's way less than 1/8 in diameter.  Will try again.  Dental bands would have the advantage of not having the tag ends of the stretch thread get in the way of wrapping, which sometimes happens.

Yea Mick, I needed the title of the article to specifically say "Two Line Stress Test". I'm a little slow sometimes. Seriously though after reading the whole article I think I am going to at least try to use this method of guide placement. 

53 minutes ago, Jrob78 said:

As you get closer to the tip you have to double wrap an 1/8" band, essentially making one band wrap around the blank twice to make it tighter, if that makes sense.

Just ordered a bunch dental elastics, might as well try them first. I was going to try to get my treble hooks under control and I know a lot of guys use these. 

[Black Hawk Basser]

I just use a tiny bit of fly tying head cement to hold really small guides.  Once the guide is all wrapped, I can "bust" the guide off of the blank to make adjustments.

[Jrob78]

 

10 hours ago, Bass Junke said:

Just ordered a bunch dental elastics, might as well try them first. I was going to try to get my treble hooks under control and I know a lot of guys use these. 

That is the other thing I use the rubber bands for. They are great for keeping hooks together on baits and take up way less room than those plastic hook bonnets.

 

[spoonplugger1]

I don't use anything to hold them, I just start my wrap like I always do, put the guide foot tip over the top of the wrap and wrap it on maybe 5 turns, then just ease the guide back till it slips under the wrap, than finish the wrap.

[spoonplugger1]

The American Tackle micros I've used have longer feet then Fuji, or Batson/Alps last I compared, don't have any Pac Bays right now to compare, but I see no reason why you would need feet longer than the Am Tack.

[Andy007]

On 6/26/2020 at 9:01 AM, spoonplugger1 said:

I don't use anything to hold them, I just start my wrap like I always do, put the guide foot tip over the top of the wrap and wrap it on maybe 5 turns, then just ease the guide back till it slips under the wrap, than finish the wrap.

I use Fuji BLAG size 5 on most of my builds and cut thin strips of tape to hold them in place.

But I'm going to try this  wrapping over then sliding the guide back into place, almost sounds to simple? 

[Bass Junke]

So I have just about completed this rod. I have the two guides closest to the tip to wrap and a hook keeper. I used the dental bands and so far have been pretty sweet. The dental bands I bought were 3/16 and are totally useless in any other capacity but holding tiny guides on a blank. I went down to 4mm guides and was able to wrap enough of the foot then cut the band and everything stays put. Let me just say that 4mm guides are insanely small. 

 

Did some measuring for the reel seat and some of the trim pieces. That turned out really good, almost seemed like I knew what I was doing. That Fuji reel seat is awesome. 

 

A couple of photos below. Came out nice, I'm happy. Guide wraps are still sort of pedestrian, too many loose ends. All in all, not bad for a couple of cardboard boxes and a book. 

[Black Hawk Basser]

I hope you do some thread work in that split grip section! 

[Bass Junke]

13 hours ago, Pickle_Power said:

I hope you do some thread work in that split grip section! 

Why? 

[Black Hawk Basser]

20 minutes ago, Bass Junke said:

Why? 

'Cuz it'll just look that much more awesome.