Breaking Off With Fluoro Leaders

[BooyahMan]

Have a weird phenomenon and was wondering if the knowledgeable anglers of Bass Resource could shed some light on this for me. Over the last few years I've been fishing with fluorocarbon leaders as the waters I'm fishing are pretty clear and have some pretty wary bass. I started out with 15lb Seaguar Red Label and had a ton of issues with snapping on the hookset with it. Even on brand new ties I found myself snapping the odd fish off. This year I bumped up to 20lb Seaguar STS and I typically retie before every trip to see if I could fix the problem; I use STS for salmon fishing and have never had any issues and, for that fishery at least, is a fluorocarbon I trust. The season started out okay with no break offs, but I have had a couple fish snap me off recently. Always on the hook set. The rod barely loads and then it snaps. It doesn't matter if it's close in or a long cast, and it seems to be breaking either right at the hook or right above it. It's gotten to the point where I'm losing a lot of confidence in running a leader at all. I only use it for texas rigging so I have a lead bullet weight, bead, and then a palomar knot to an EWG when rigging with the leader. I sometimes use a bobber stop to peg the weight. 

 

Another couple of observations. The leader never feels frayed or worn. I also have never snapped a fish off when sight fishing. It's always been when casting to structure and striking when the fish is chewing or starting to swim off with the hook.This is only an issue when bass fishing too. I have done some hero hook sets for other fisheries with no issues. 

Is this relatively normal with fluorocarbon leaders? How often do you guys retie your leaders; every trip? After a few fish? 

Any and all help is greatly appreciated! 

[rtwvumtneer6]

You can use a Palomar with fluorcarbon but make sure it is tied properly, and you're wetting the line to prevent it from burning.  

 

I use a double pitzen with great success.

 

[Angry John]

Flourocarbon knots are real finicky and burn super easy.  You may have better luck using a different knot.  The second thing to try is some actual leader material.  It is a different formula and it may help or solve your problem 

[APK62]

Solution - use straight fC or straight mono. Less knots=Less failures.

 

[dodgeguy]

9 minutes ago, APK62 said:

Solution - use straight fC or straight mono. Less knots=Less failures.

 

absolutley

[MickD]

Sounds to me like your problem is with the knot and not the FC material. BUT, mono is much less temperamental than FC, so a good move would be to move to mono.  But if you want to stay with FC, then look closely at your knot technique.  

 

I use both mono and FC, all FC fly tippet material , 15 pound test, this year and no problems with the simple improved clinch knot. I only change it when it gets too short.  I don't retie on any regular basis.

 

You are not getting pike bite-offs, are you?

[PourMyOwn]

Give a mono leader a try. I switched over this spring and am very pleased. 

[Teal]

20 minutes ago, APK62 said:

Solution - use straight fC or straight mono. Less knots=Less failures.

 

What does this have to do with the knot breaking at the lure on the hook set?  

He said its breaking off at the hook, the line/leader knot shouldnt have any thing to do with it.

 

My guess is, it's your knot.  Lubricate it well and cinch it down easy.  You dont have to pull on it. 

[BrianMDTX]

I think, with a Palomar knot, you really have to take care that no part of the line is contacting the end of the hook eye when you start to tighten the knot. For some reason, the line always seems to migrate to that area when I’m tying a Palomar. Never had an issue with mono but have with FC. One possible nick and the knot is toast. 

[Lead Head]

If you're not breaking at the leader knot, then the leader is probably not your problem. Running straight floro isn't likely to solve your problem but straight mono or copoly might (better knot strength). Sounds like you are "crossing over" your knot, or burning your line. Bite offs seem possible as well, but I don't know anything about that.

[Chris at Tech]

I had a period where I was getting too many break offs at the hook too.  I changed from palomar to San Diego Jam and the problem went away

[MassYak85]

I'd guess like others that you might be burning the line a bit when tying it. 15lb is strong stuff but it's still light enough that a slightly weakened area will break on a strong hookset. 

[Glenn]

11 hours ago, BooyahMan said:

Even on brand new ties I found myself snapping the odd fish off. 

#! reason I don't use leaders. It's just another point of failure.  I have many more reasons, but that's the primary one.

[waymont]

The only fluoro I use is Red Label, I find it to be a very strong line. Never have any issues with it.

Flouro requires perfectly tied knots, it sounds like you are failing to get a good knot. I never had much luck with the Palomar and flouro, IMO it's a weak knot with FC.

I switched to these two and now I'm solid, try them>

 

 

 

[Teal]

That's a cool knot... improved clinch still going strong for me..... I use it for almost everything.... 

[WRB]

Do you wonder why so many different knots with anglers who use FC line verses so few with mono line? Poor knot strength and impact strength is inherent with FC line.

Breaking off 20 lb on a hook set indicates you are over doing it, dial it down a notch or 2.

With today's extremely sharp hooks cross the eyes hook sets are not needed. You mentioned chewing and swimming off before hook setting....don't wait, set the hook as soon as you detect the strike.

Bass are not line shy fish like cold water fish are. FC line only advantage for bass fishing IMO is slightly better feed back for bottom contact lures. You pay for the slight advantage with random knot failures.

Tom 

[galyonj]

My go to casting setup is 40lb Sufix 832 with a 15lb Abrazx leader. I use it for just about every lure that's got a single hook and weighs more than a quarter ounce.

 

And I've broken off that leader enough that it's given me ample opportunity to do some unscientific testing with knots and whatnot, and I will absolutely cosign that fluorocarbon is finicky about how it's tied.

 

What I've learned that is more than likely painfully obvious for anyone else:

1. I will only use a leader. I know that having more knots means there's more opportunity for those knots to break, but it's a risk I'm willing to take given how and where I fish. I'd rather lose a few feet of flouro than have to saw off 30 feet of braid when, not if, I get hung up.
2. If you burn your knot or try to muscle it tighter, that knot will break and you will feel like a big dummy.
3. I really love the GT knot for my mainline connection. It's easy and fast to tie, and, in my experience it's plenty strong compared to the double-uni, FG, and alberto, with the added benefit of giving me zero trouble with the tiny little guides on my TP-1 Black rods.
4. Regardless of line, I will not use a terminal connection that only gives me one loop through the eye of the hook. I mostly either use a palomar or Gerald Swindle's "double shindo" knot, but I generally fish in enough slop that I'm starting to move to the trilene knot just to keep from dredging the lake with my tag end.
5. Did I mention burning the knot or trying to yank it super tight? Don't do that. Just wet it and pull it snug, then quit messing with it.
6. No, for real.
7. Sir! Step away from the knot, sir!
8. Do you wanna see how far you can launch a half-ounce jig while your line flutters gently to the water behind it? Because that's how you find out.

[BrianMDTX]

1 hour ago, Teal said:

That's a cool knot... improved clinch still going strong for me..... I use it for almost everything.... 

I use an IC a lot. Also a Trilene knot. 

[Teal]

I'm with Tom, (yet again...the man knows his stuff)  you do not have to cross their eyes on a hook set with a good fc.  

 

FC is known for not having impact strength.  I like the stiffness of Fc, I like the sensitivity it brings.  I'll stay with it.  Using the improved clinch not I have not broken off at the hook more than I few times in several years...unless it was negligence on my part.  I'm not posting this to say my knot is the best...my point is, I know what I'm getting into with FC line... if.my knot does not work I'll change knots or change back to mono.  There have been times I've been hung and had to really try...and I mean try HARD to break off..and it breaks off at the leader or bends the hook.

 

The problem is your knot and in the impact.  Maybe you need to dial it down...or find a knot that can endure the impact.. or switch back to mono.  But i cant be but so wrong... most of us do not have a consistent problem with it.  I'd slow the knot tying process down and dont force it down.. clinch it down with ease and lubrication.    

[Choporoz]

Sounds like your terminal knot....but it didn't sound conclusive.   Any zebra mussels there? Are there rocks? If so, are there 'sharp' rocks?  I found a big difference between the line-slicing ability of rocks, depending on the location and type of water.  Is it possible that you got cheap lead that cuts or nicks the line?

Lastly,  since I switched to San Diego Jam for fluoro,  I have had almost no knot problems. 

[FryDog62]

I had similar issues with knots snapping too easily a few years back, 2 things fixed the problem:

 

1) I switched leader material to Yo-Zuri Hybrid.  Best knot strength I’ve found yet. Be sure, like with any line, to moisten before tightening.
 

2) I started tying the 3 tag Grigsby Knot instead of a Palomar:

https://www.grandviewoutdoors.com/fishing/the-best-knot-for-fluorocarbon-fishing-line

 

Problem fixed...

[Bankc]

I like the Trilene knot for FC and mono.  But I would definitely try a different knot, because it sounds like you're having a knot problem.  You may be doing something funky with your Palomar knots and if you want to stick with it, try tying it a different way.  Sometimes we get into bad habits and don't even realize where we are making the mistakes because our brains are on autopilot.  

[galyonj]

7 minutes ago, Bankc said:

I like the Trilene knot for FC and mono.  But I would definitely try a different knot, because it sounds like you're having a knot problem.  You may be doing something funky with your Palomar knots and if you want to stick with it, try tying it a different way.

One thing that I've heard over and over recently (Baader-Meinhof phenomenon, I guess) is the importance of not letting the line cross inside the hook eye with two-loop terminal knots. That may contribute some to what OP's experiencing.

[Fishingmickey]

     I'll pretty much jump on the not the knot for me Palomar knot with Fluorocarbon line bandwagon. I been using fluorocarbon for several years now and I (and this is IMHO) feel that fluorocarbon line has different stretch properties then mono. Mono stretches more evenly as it is loaded up. Fluoro stretches after it has had a good load applied and will stretch later then mono with the same load. Fluoro doesn't recover or is as forgiving after being stretched under a heavy load.  Fluoro doesn't like being kinked, stress stretched or shock loaded (think hook set). When any of those have happened it breaks easily.

     I think the way the palomar knot tightens down puts a kink at the hook eye where the line exits the knot which causes your line to break. I use the improved clinch knot, six turns and slowly tighten until snug.

   Using a short leader of say 6' or less then tied to braid doesn't leave much room for stretch and can transmit shock much better to the short piece of leader especially on the hook set. Hope my rambling helps you come to a solution Booyah!

Fishingmickey

 

 

[MickD]

9 hours ago, Teal said:

What does this have to do with the knot breaking at the lure on the hook set? 

Using all mono or FC will put a lot more stretch in the system and will significantly reduce the shock on the knot.